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new ubuntu coming will it break if i dont do a fresh install?
David Mitchell
That's your opinion. Java is the lanugage of Sup Forums.
Caleb Scott
There is only one language for men to program and it's called C.
Christopher Barnes
Oh, looks like Sup Forums disagrees with you. C's vocal minority should be removed from this board.
Nathaniel Barnes
>ubuntu is dropping unity probably
Jacob Sanchez
>and it's called C >Cock ITS THE FOOKING PAY-TREE-ARR-KEEEEEEE!!!!!!!
Jackson Jones
>11 votes
Thomas Bennett
can someone explain (retard friendly) what the fuss about systemd is all about? is it really a nsa botnet? if so, how can I disabled/remove systemd? I'm using arch linux, if it matters
Logan Nelson
im already using ubuntu gnome 16.10 whats going to happen to me
>>>Do you understand how to navigate your file system in bash? >I'm not a programmer I don't understand what some make error means I guess not. Understanding how to change directory and a few other simple commands is helpful. Understanding cd and ls is a good start.
Cooper Hughes
Very real disadvantages of systemd:
1. systemd is tied to a specific kernel and a specific libc and specific device manager and specific journaling daemon, basically, having systemd means you're locked in to a whole lot of other things. 2. systemd is renowned for locking up during startup and boot when you have network filesystems. 3. systemd hardcodes quite a lot of the booting and shutdown process in C which other systems place in easily editable scripts. 4. systemd in practice requires quite a lot of things: ACLs, PAM, dbus, polkit, these are not hard requirements but without this the above advantages are lost so all distributions enable them at compile time. 5. logind starting to do retarded shit like user sessions and having retarded power management, in theory you can disable logind, but no distribution again does this. 6. systemd is very monolithic and comes in one configuration compared to being able to piece your system together yourself. 7. systemd appropriates the cgroup tree and takes control of it and completely messes with any other user of the cgroup tree and really wants them all to go through systemd, systemd was wirtten basically on the assumption that nothing but systemd would be using cgroups and they even tried to lobby to make cgroups a private prioperty of systemd in the kernel but that went no-where. 8. systemd's usage of cgroups for process tracking is a fundamentally broken concept, cgroups were never meant for this and it's a good way to fuck resource usage up. 9. systemd has a hard dependency on glibc for really no good reason. 10. systemd relies on DBus for IPC, as the name 'Desktop bus' implies DBus was never written with this in mind and it shows. DBus was written to facilitate IPC within a single desktop session, not as a transport during early boot. This is why systemd wanted to push kdbus heavily beause kdbus solved some of the problems inherent to DBus being used as IPC during early boot.
Camden Stewart
Since systemd was first proposed it has been frequently discussed in many forums, mailing lists and conferences. In these discussions one can often hear certain myths about systemd, that are repeated over and over again, but certainly don't gain any truth by constant repetition. Let's take the time to debunk a few of them:
Myth: systemd is monolithic.
If you build systemd with all configuration options enabled you will build 69 individual binaries. These binaries all serve different tasks, and are neatly separated. Many of these binaries are separated out so nicely, that they are very useful outside of systemd. A package involving 69 individual binaries can hardly be called monolithic.
Myth: systemd is not UNIX.
There's certainly some truth in that. systemd's sources do not contain a single line of code originating from original UNIX. However it derives inspiration from UNIX. In fact the design of systemd as a suite of integrated tools that each have their individual purposes but when used together are more than just the sum of the parts, that's pretty much at the core of UNIX philosophy.
Myth: systemd is bloated.
Well, bloated certainly has many different definitions. But in most definitions, systemd is probably the opposite of bloat. Since systemd components share a common code base, they tend to share much more code for common code paths. Here's an example: in a traditional Linux setup, sysvinit, start-stop-daemon, inetd, cron, dbus, all implemented its own scheme to execute processes with various configuration options in a certain, hopefully clean environment. On systemd the code paths for all of this, for the configuration parsing, as well as the actual execution is shared. This means less code, less place for mistakes, less memory and cache pressure. systemd is also pretty modular. You can choose at build time which components you need, and which you don't need. People can hence specifically choose the level of "bloat" they want.
Parker Bennett
11. systemd's security and general code quality practices are less than stellar, a lot of security bugs pop up in systemd due to its insistence of putting quite a bit of code in pid1 and quickly adding new features and quickly changing things. 13. systemd creates dependencies and is a dependency of things for political reasons in order to encourage people to pick these things. This is not conjecture, Lennart has admitted multiple times that he creates dependencies to 'gently push' everyone to the same configuration 14. systemd is monolithic for its own sake. It's basically product tying to encourage people to pick an all-or-none deal to again gently push towards this consistency. 15. Lennart Poettering, the face of systemd and its lead dev is the biggest primadonna FOSS has ever known who continues to shift blame and demand that entire world adapt to his designs.
Of course people vote for what they're most familiar with and there are more people who don't know more advanced languages.
Hunter Roberts
Make something better.
What's that?
You can't?
Oh OK. Get out of here.
Liam Nelson
We can all agree that hating systemd is a meme.
Most people hear it's bad and so they propagate the idea, and blow it out of proportion without much research, consideration or thought. When systemd first appeared, it was quickly adopted because not many people had qualms about it. Those who did (and those were few) had their own reasons and thoughts (they didn't get meme'd into hating it) and moved onto other init systems. Most of them were reasonable enough not to start a fucking civil war because of them, because even they knew that systemd is a natural step forward in general.
If systemd was as hated as it is now, it would never have been so widely adopted.
>So, how did this meme really come about? Well, I'll tell you.
systemd is the most advanced init system in existence. It's better than Apple's launchd and better than whatever Microsoft has. It's arguably one of the best things that happened to GNU since Linux. The jews know this, so they spawned a fake controversy around it in order to divide the community, sabotage the project and keep GNU/Linux from advancing as an operating system and gaining more market share. Just think about it: >Linux - the most advanced kernel in existence >systemd - the most advanced init and service manager in existence >free as in both freedom and beer And now with Steam OS, Chrome OS and both Wayland and Vulkan maturing, it's only a matter of time before GNU/Linux becomes truly mainstream and takes over the gaming market. But they were a bit late to notice this before the wide adoption of systemd.
That's how, even though it seemed like a natural step forward in the evolution of GNU/Linux back then, systemd is the most controversial topic in the FOSS world right now.
>TL;DR Hating systemd is an artificial meme brought about via CIA's advanced meme warfare techniques in order to prevent the year of the GNU/Linux desktop. dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a507172.pdf
Carson Thomas
systemd is developed by red hat, a company that developed programs with the nsa before (see selinux) the nsa is all about data collection, control and backdoors (see prism) systemd is an init program with root privileges, which means it hat full control over your system would you give a guy whos best friend is well known for dropping backdoors into literally every single piece of software full access to your system?
John Gomez
First off, systemd is not an init system, it has an init system as part of the systemd suite. systemd is a project to build a standardised lowlevel userland for Linux. The project is pretty comprehensive and it delivers a lot of functionality under one umbrella. It does away with a lot of older, often undermaintained software packages, which were traditionally used to assemble a low level userland.
Which is where the contention comes from, as a system suite systemd is restrictive for Unix virtuosi who are used to tailor a system with wit, ingenuity, a lick and a prayer and a couple dozen of unrelated packages. systemd makes such knowledge useless.
The faction that thinks that systemd is Linux's Hiroshima, finds all the added functionality bloat, unnecessary and dangerous, as it is all under development in one project.
All the systemd jokes stem from the comprehensiveness as a low level system suite. People against it love to joke that one day systemd will write its own kernel.
There is a lot of FUD and hate going around. Some arguments do have merit, a lot of eggs in one basket is certainly true, but as with all things in life, it depends which tradeoff you prefer. Do you want a suite of well designed software, working closely together, so that system management is streamlined or do you want the complete freedom to tailor your own low level system with a lot of time tested, interchangeable components.
I have no desire to be a low level system designer, so I prefer systemd. I don't hate traditional init systems though. If a Linux system has one and I need to work with it, I'm still happy it boots and starts the necessary services.
Carter Martin
Im happily using openrc,i have also removed gnu from my system with musl.
What's that?
You can't handle the reality that no one needs systemd or gnu in this year of 2017?
Oh ok, keep feeding potterrings insanity
Wyatt Perry
Fuck I'm so tired of this shit. You are either incredibly ignorant or an incredibly persistent troll. And there are so many of you. Congratulations, I'm giving up.
Grayson Myers
>java >not advanced >>this is what C's vocal minority actually believe
Jordan Thomas
>it was quickly adopted It was quickly adopted as a fucking init replacement, not a monolithic cluster fuck of code, that forces other programs to dep on systemd(github.com/tmux/tmux/issues/428)
Charles Taylor
I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.
Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called "Linux", and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.
There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called "Linux" distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux.
Carson Price
I can handle musl. I use Alpine for some stuff at work, which as you must know, uses musl. The problem is you think systemd is just an init system. It's much more than that and the features are *why* people are using it now instead. Openrc and sysv init is like being stuck in the last century.
Ethan Wilson
Finally a non-brainlet post.
Jacob Collins
Also, have you heard of FreeBSD? Or it's countless cousins. I bet you honestly think you are the first person to not use GNU.
David Price
>alpine/musl autist >not a brainlet pick one
Josiah Cox
Systemd started as an init replacement program.
Since then it has usurped the rest of the system. It is an unchecked cancer wrecking havor
You freetards cant handle it when someone dosent use systemd and/or gnu.
Joshua Wright
samefag
Liam Sanchez
Everyone not using GNU/Linux please leave now and create your own autistic thread. Thanks.
John Collins
Your definition of cancer differs from mine. Systemd is helping GNU/Linux stay relevant, and that's what pisses you off.
Also, I couldn't care less what other people use because I'm not some pretentious religious zealot out to convince people to use what I use. Use whatever the fuck you want. I use what works for me.
Easton Roberts
No, Richard, it's 'Linux', not 'GNU/Linux'. The most important contributions that the FSF made to Linux were the creation of the GPL and the GCC compiler. Those are fine and inspired products. GCC is a monumental achievement and has earned you, RMS, and the Free Software Foundation countless kudos and much appreciation.
Following are some reasons for you to mull over, including some already answered in your FAQ.
One guy, Linus Torvalds, used GCC to make his operating system (yes, Linux is an OS -- more on this later). He named it 'Linux' with a little help from his friends. Why doesn't he call it GNU/Linux? Because he wrote it, with more help from his friends, not you. You named your stuff, I named my stuff -- including the software I wrote using GCC -- and Linus named his stuff. The proper name is Linux because Linus Torvalds says so. Linus has spoken. Accept his authority. To do otherwise is to become a nag. You don't want to be known as a nag, do you?
(An operating system) != (a distribution). Linux is an operating system. By my definition, an operating system is that software which provides and limits access to hardware resources on a computer. That definition applies whereever you see Linux in use. However, Linux is usually distributed with a collection of utilities and applications to make it easily configurable as a desktop system, a server, a development box, or a graphics workstation, or whatever the user needs. In such a configuration, we have a Linux (based) distribution. Therein lies your strongest argument for the unwieldy title 'GNU/Linux' (when said bundled software is largely from the FSF). Go bug the distribution makers on that one. Take your beef to Red Hat, Mandrake, and Slackware. At least there you have an argument. Linux alone is an operating system that can be used in various applications without any GNU software whatsoever. Embedded applications come to mind as an obvious example.
Tyler Thomas
Jokes on you, I'm not really Richard Stallman.
Camden Nelson
Not samefag because unfortunately I don't know what "brainlet" means.
Christopher Collins
Next, even if we limit the GNU/Linux title to the GNU-based Linux distributions, we run into another obvious problem. XFree86 may well be more important to a particular Linux installation than the sum of all the GNU contributions. More properly, shouldn't the distribution be called XFree86/Linux? Or, at a minimum, XFree86/GNU/Linux? Of course, it would be rather arbitrary to draw the line there when many other fine contributions go unlisted. Yes, I know you've heard this one before. Get used to it. You'll keep hearing it until you can cleanly counter it.
You seem to like the lines-of-code metric. There are many lines of GNU code in a typical Linux distribution. You seem to suggest that (more LOC) == (more important). However, I submit to you that raw LOC numbers do not directly correlate with importance. I would suggest that clock cycles spent on code is a better metric. For example, if my system spends 90% of its time executing XFree86 code, XFree86 is probably the single most important collection of code on my system. Even if I loaded ten times as many lines of useless bloatware on my system and I never excuted that bloatware, it certainly isn't more important code than XFree86. Obviously, this metric isn't perfect either, but LOC really, really sucks. Please refrain from using it ever again in supporting any argument.
Last, I'd like to point out that we Linux and GNU users shouldn't be fighting among ourselves over naming other people's software. But what the heck, I'm in a bad mood now. I think I'm feeling sufficiently obnoxious to make the point that GCC is so very famous and, yes, so very useful only because Linux was developed. In a show of proper respect and gratitude, shouldn't you and everyone refer to GCC as 'the Linux compiler'? Or at least, 'Linux GCC'? Seriously, where would your masterpiece be without Linux? Languishing with the HURD?
Jaxson Cruz
Gold & saved.
Luke Peterson
...
Ayden Nelson
y so mad tho senpai. Linux will always be Linux. GNU will always be GNU. GNU/Linux is the combination of both.
Ryder Hall
Sorry bud, TLDR. I did see you referenced GNU/Linux. My response for that is: Linux is a kernel. Sure the userland has all sorts of shit from various shit licenses like BSD, MIT, Apache, etc. But the majority is GNU, so that's why people often refer to the OS and GNU/Linux. Because saying GNU/BSD/Apache/MIT/Linux is ten times as retarded.
I mean FUCK, are you this FUCKING STUPID? How is this stuff not obvious to EVERYONE?
Parker James
nice pasta
Cameron Thompson
what really annoys me is that you fucking retard NEVER post the complete pasta
literally kill yourself low quality reddit memer
Christopher Hughes
>I have to patch my OS to be able to run 3+million lines of code as a non-root user Why is Linux a good OS again?
Joshua Brooks
nice meme, this is now my fb status
Charles Ramirez
But we have to be 100% PC and credit every possible piece of software in the chain, do we not? Is this not why you are campaigning against something that has been the norm for 30 fucking years?
Stallman has done NOTHING to his name except create gnu and emacs, he has NOTHING contributed in the past 30 years.Hes grasping at straws and you freeretards drank the coolaid, and realized you did,but you keep up the charades
Noah Robinson
Advanced as in requires more skill dumbfuck
Grayson Watson
...
Justin Wilson
A man who made free software a thing should have the right to rest. You wouldn't even post here, this thread wouldn't exist, GPL wouldn't exist, Linux wouldn't exist - without him. Pray for forgiveness on your knees right now.
Austin Gomez
I don't think we have to be 100% PC. That's too idealist.
I agree, Stallman hasn't contributed any code in years, or decades. However he has championed one idea:
That the code should be free, not the user.
Yeah, I totally get why Microsoft calls GPL cancer. Because anything that touches it has to be GPL too. But when I'm no wearing my American Capitalism hat, there's not really anything wrong with the idea that SOFTWARE should be free. And I'm not going to elaborate on that because FOR FUCKS SAKE you can just read fsf.org.
Michael Roberts
>when I'm no I meant "when I'm not"
Cooper Diaz
>C Nigger redefining words Java is far more complex as a language than C.
Jaxon Garcia
>I don't think we have to be 100% PC why should, we, I can call you a faggot and you and I understand what's meant doesn't mean that we shouldn't fight for our own rights (and reject nonfree software)
Isaiah Myers
Life does not revolve around things being free. Where is my free mansion,where is my free women,where is my free luxary sports car. It should all be free right?
Why would i have to give out months of time coding on a project just to then give it away for free so some other ass hat can copy it and do no work on it?
GPL is massivly flawed,but the amount of cool aid drunk freetards somehow has made this shift to it being ok.
Mason Barnes
...
Alexander Wright
>Java is far more complex as a language than C. Not redefining words cocksucker. I meant what I fucking said and you're trying to say I meant something different. Eat shit.
Mason Long
GPL is communism
Levi Mitchell
...
Tyler Perry
communism is absense of capitalism; GPL supports capitalism
Aaron Russell
>GPL supports capitalism what is this autism? GPL is impossible to effectively monetise.
Jaxson Barnes
I'm so sick of that systemd and pol bait.
Anthony Morgan
>advanced >Highly developed or complex >complex >complex >complex Now you see? Oh god, C's vocal minority is so stupid.
Kill yourself you fucking waste. I hope English isn't your first language.
Nathaniel Clark
tell that red hat, they'll laugh at you
Justin Flores
>C nigger >Telling someone that he is a waste Java is the language of the employed. Enjoy being NEET.
Brandon Sanders
>Oh god, C's vocal minority is so stupid Yeah. C is more difficult so fewer people know it and people who use things like Java stay quiet because they aren't as skilled as others. It's common sense, stop acting like this is some revelation.
Grayson Perry
>having a list of words that are prohibited from speaking Wew lad how deep does this retardation go?
Jonathan Martin
please leave this dumb shit is not welcome here it's not even related
Ayden Barnes
...
Ian Wilson
>prohibited [cititation needed]
Cameron Harris
Hey, I completely agree. GPL is the "ideal" situation. Obviously everyone wants the free housing and services.
But that's not reality -- hence my capitalist hat.
As for why would you give your software away for free? Well, with GPL, or AGPL, it's not really free. You can charge for it. And you own the copyrights still. But GPL can help ensure your software is adopted and any contributions or changes are shared with you. Then you can even get more capitalist and make it available as some BS "community edition" and make a straight up proprietary version too. Then watch as multiple people code for you, while not being on your payroll.
Or you might just be someone who doesn't care about making money (must be nice), and have charitable intentions.
Kayden Reed
>C nigger You should leave. Java is the language of Sup Forums
Gabriel Thompson
b-b-but they said free as in freedom?!?!?! >*starves to death*
Jeremiah Garcia
neo Sup Forums*
Lincoln Parker
Dude fuck off seriously. What kind of faggot goes out of his way imposing bullshit into unrelated threads? Annoying fuck this is why nobody really likes you irl. Seriously what the fuck is your problem?
Dylan Richardson
>irrelevant female
Ugh
Juan Hall
seriously this
Cooper Collins
>Annoying fuck this is why nobody really likes you irl Apparently you know him IRL?
Benjamin Johnson
>Ugh faggot
No but you can bet he's(you) a self absorbed annoying faggot irl too.
Landon Nelson
I bet you are too.
Josiah Perry
>tried to install solus on same SSD as windows >it kept crashing on login >uninstalled >somehow fucked the bootloader >spent 2 hours trying to repair it
thanks, kevin
Evan Harris
>property I'm all in for dicussing the topic when you can prove that property actually exists, and with exists I mean reality also known as real life, on planet earth, property of the universe (or god, if you insist) which made use.
Henry Torres
Stop posting
Matthew Hill
You first
Adrian Lee
Stop shitting up /fglt/ with systemd bait.
Ayden Price
Dear good advice viking, discussing the topic systemd is useful, bait isn't (there's a difference).
Logan Morris
>there's a difference Not him, but I'd like to see one discussion about systemd that isn't down to the roots filled with bait.
Jaxon Bailey
friendly reminder that ubuntu precise dies this month, update your servers now or upgrade to glorious debian
Logan Roberts
>Fuck off No. You fuck off. C Niggers are vocal minority that should be banned from this board.
>meme You're right, Linux is a fucking meme. Even Windows has better security at this point.
Ian Harris
Is high PPI (4k 15" screen) scaling still fucked on gnu/Linux?
Sebastian Edwards
The GNU operating system with Linux added as its kernel*
Cameron Thomas
>GNU operating system Jokes on you, I run a full BSD/University of Illinois/NCSA+Linux operating system. Toybox is relatively usable, and LLVM can compile Linux if you help it a little.
Jack James
sup cuck, how does it feel getting raped by proprietary mandingo?
