For those who don't know, grsecurity is a patch set for the Linux kernel that implements a wide array of exploit mitigations. For years, it's been on the cutting edge of security research and has pioneered many techniques. There isn't anything else like this. grsecurity.net/compare.php
From now on, it'll only be available to paying customers. This is a severe blow to non-enterprise Linux users (especially Hardened Gentoo users, who used the test banch), because they've lost the best (by far) security features out there. Now there's nothing to protect you from more shitty network stack vulns in the future, among other things.
If they were actual security fixes, why don't they just submit them to the linux kernel?
Anthony Morales
"To date and going forward, Grsecurity's patches are and will be distributed under the GPLv2 free-software license, just like the Linux kernel. You could, therefore, pay for future code and release it for everyone, but that would be a surefire way to end your Grsecurity subscription for good."
Nice loophole, faggots.
Samuel Kelly
Would that even hold up in court?
Justin Sanchez
Would the GPU itself hold up without a giant beardo getting in the way and blocking the view?
Chase Barnes
There's nothing in the GPL preventing you from selling copies of your source code, but also doesn't prevent your customers from sharing it for free.
When the GPL was written, it was unthinkable that you could enforce people spilling the source for free.
This is literally a GPL violation, you're not actually allowed to reveal the source without having future access to GPL code revoked.
Logan Allen
Because Linus thinks grsecurity is "insane and very annoying and invasive code." (Source: lwn.net/Articles/313765/)
>Because Linus thinks grsecurity is "insane and very annoying and invasive code."
When not taken out of context, Linus is again very correct. Many of the grsec stuff has tradeoffs when it comes to compatibility or performance and cannot be suitable for the mainline kernel.
Aiden Foster
Those don't qualify as GPL violations. Also, Alpine Linux and the BlackBerry Priv come with grsec.
Jose Cruz
Fuck off NSA shill.
Parker Butler
Reminder that Windows has had mitigations since forever and the whole world hasn't fallen apart due to lack of compatibility or performance.
Jayden Watson
Windows is pretty awfyl, so I don't know how this helps your argument.
Brody Campbell
Reminder that Windows is consumer garbage-ware that cannot run on a mere 25% of the stuff Linux does plus doesn't have the same level of security of grsec because it's shit
Jason Mitchell
Shut up schill.
Hudson Murphy
>Windows is pretty awfyl Exactly.
What does that tell you when your operating system is even worse than fucking Windows, lincuck?
Stay rectally shattered!
Jayden Adams
>actually supporting windows
Let me guess: you're a gaymer. Gayboy.
Aaron Long
If it's so bad then why is the majority of Desktop users Windows?
Jackson King
>supporting Windows You're not good at text comprehension, are you? No wonder you use Loonix.
Elijah Allen
Actually supporting windows and now avoiding the subject. How surprising.
Asher Morales
Because it comes preinstalled and majority of consumers don't even know what "OS" means.
Andrew Harris
In other words, it's the operating system for the lowest common denominator - the normalfag with the reading comprehension of a 12 year old. No wonder they're all gaymers.
Samuel Martin
>windows >secure lmao
Grayson Jones
That's defining the Linux community in a nutshell.
Brayden Rodriguez
OpenBSD master race
John Perry
>y-y-you too!
Wyatt Taylor
True but consider the following: - Microsoft has deals with hardware companies, so most laptop and desktop computers comes bundled with their products. - Most people uses whatever comes bundled with the hardware and i can bet a lot of them doesn't even know what is an operative system and that you can choose it. If the brand "Windows" were related to quality then WP would be the most used mobile operative system because the demand would be high. - Microsoft has deals with schools, so people is trained from a young age to use microsoft products. For a lot of them it's a question of being a comfort zone, not even about the difficulty. I can say this because in my own experience most windows users never solve their own problems, they ask other people to solve their problems. - Microsoft has a huge lock-in with their formats and APIs. Independently on if we can consider they products are good or bad, the fact is that they use anti-competitive measures to lock their users and developers. For example their document formats doesn't honors the "ISO standard" they supposedly issued. If they care about interoperability with competing solutions they would use the well documented version of their format. But no, they uses their dominant position to push a version of the format only they know exactly how it works (interestingly and despite this, i have gotten problems even with different versions of MSO). Most of the documents in this format are created with MSO and most people doesn't even knows about the strict version of the format, this makes their format a moving target for competitors at best. Their development tools is another good example if a lock-in, they only care about compatibility on markets where they're losing like server or mobile.
Aiden Lopez
>Linux open sourced and free. >Has to begin paying for Security updates
Lol
Joseph Fisher
Yeah, but at least it doesn't have a webserver right in the kernel, nor is the GUI rendered there.
Adrian Perez
This defines the Windows community in a nutshell.
Caleb Reyes
Windows doesn't run on phones and Pis and random SoC shit to does it?
Dominic Perry
Ahm, pretty sure as long the user controls the hardware they receive all the security updates unless there's an exception i don't know about. Grsecurity is not mainlined in the kernel so it's an optional different product.
Christopher Diaz
The entire point of hardened Gentoo was grsecurity in hardened-sources, you already have PIE+SSP base+userland with new compilers by default.
Explain how they violated the GPL then instead of calling me names, you fucking troll. Refusing support to someone who distributed your code never did and never will.
Jose White
Then you don't know what Gentoo hardened is. Main thing is grsecurity/PaX + hardened toolchain ( which now everyone has ) & SELinux & RBAC that's what Gentoo Hardened has. wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Hardened
Nolan Davis
This isn't Windows vs. Linux, you dumbasses.
It's OpenBSD vs. Linux. We're OpenBSD users.
The fact that OpenBSD is so superior to your shit penguin hobby OS that you have to keep comparing it to Windows to save face is laughable.
As I said, even the shitfest that is Windows has mitigations, yet Linux hasn't. That's really embarrassing for you!
Ayden Young
bullshit. openbsd faggots always had to pay for binary updates.
Ethan Brooks
>hobby OS You do realize Linux is mainly developed by professional coders working for corporations like Red Hat, IBM, etc. ? Those corporations are also responsible for most of the funding.
By contrast, who is the main development force behind OpenBSD? Right, a bunch of hobbyists. So how about you go suck Theo's cock before you embarrass yourself any further (if at all possible)?
Brody Brown
Not him and not sure if it can be considered a loophole or not but the licence supposedly guarantees the right for any user to redistribute the source, while you can argue that they technically cannot sue you for making public their GPL work, by threatening to not give you access to future releases the intention is clearly to deter (by threatening) their users from redistributing the code, so i consider it easily can be a violation of that term but only a court can decide that at the end.
Ian Nelson
So is the hardened gentoo/Arch/Alpine developers just going to bite the bullet and pay for a subscription that will then be distributed among their users?
I would actually be okay with donating to the Hardened Gentoo project if they did that.
Xavier Thomas
You should probably read about those tools before you start shitposting that hardened Gentoo is grsec, you obviously have never used it.
Isaac Wood
>BSD user calling "hobby OS" to linux. Do you grasp the same name calling can apply to BSD right? Yet i'm pretty sure you know a lot of developers that contribute to linux and BSD are paid professionals and both are used widely in the industry. You're just full of salt.
Camden Adams
>not even trying to make your lies believable This is a new low even for lincucks.
>I trust corporations more than I trust enthusiasts The end results are out there for everyone to see: my OS has mitigations; yours hasn't. My X has been running unprivileged for 10 years now, yours still runs without privilege separation to this day. My virtual memory has been encrypted since forever, yours is still plainly stored. Etc., etc, etc....
Talk about embarrassment.
Blake Young
>LMAO Exactly made by corporations. They don't care about security, you can turn off SMEP/SMAP, bypass all other stuff. Not to mention all the silent vuln fixes that can be used against LTS kernels. It's just one giant circle jerk.
You are a moron, hardened-sources has grsecurity which is one of the things Gentoo hardened is, together with SELinux and hardened toolchain. Infact i'm running it now.
Connor Wilson
The difference is Linux was made by a student as an educational project, while BSD was developed by a renowned university funded by DARPA. Stay anally overwrought.
Brody Johnson
forgot to mention that it had grsecurity testing patches in it.
Jason Adams
You're not entitled to support from them, they can offer it to you on whichever terms they want.
Aaron Cooper
So you know that you are just shitposting then.
Jordan Wright
Every DARPA funded project that went public and civ ended up being filled with flawed design or exploits (TOR, etc).
Colton Edwards
>being this dumb
Matthew Ramirez
>>I trust corporations more than I trust enthusiasts Nice try moving the goalposts. I never said I trust corporations (I don't), I was merely responding to your claims about Linux being a hobby OS (which it's not).
Isaac Jackson
Okay, enjoy your systemd OS.
Liam Allen
You can stand by your assertation that hardened gentoo requires grsec and look like a dipshit if you want to, freedom of ideas and all.
Justin Wilson
I had assumed they were already doing that because hardened gentoo runs old as fuck kernels.
Carter Sullivan
Explain to me what Gentoo hardened is then? It doesn't require grsec, but it's all kinds of things like grsec and SELinux and toolchain. You can enable what you want, you don't have to use grsec, but honestly then it's not that hardened :)
Easton Russell
I don't need to explain it to you, because you already know I'm right.
Levi Morris
Such a low effort goalpost.
Camden Sanders
Not him, but Hardened Gentoo is Gentoo Linux with a series of additions for security, one of which is GRSecurity patches in the kernel.
You have to manually enable any of the GRSec features, but the patches are there so you can.
I think you're right.
Daniel Long
I know it's a bad troll.
Jason Sanchez
test
Alexander Green
What? no counterarguments and only comparing how they started as argument? i'm waiting but not forever salty boy.
Adam Myers
hahahahaah linax aaahahahahah
Cameron Bennett
>counterarguments That term assumes there are arguments to counter, lad.
Liam Wilson
>You're not entitled to support from them. I know, please point to me where i stated otherwise.
>they can offer it to you on whichever terms they want. This is where i think you're wrong. Their work is a derivative of the kernel developers work which is being released under a license that enforces for derivatives to be licensed under the same license and one of the aspects of this license is to guarantee the right to distribute the source code. This license is viral but it's made that way to discourage freeloaders which curiously is what i think they're now trying to pull now. If they was going to disagree with the license they should have based their work on a project like BSD which allows to create proprietary forks always or create their own kernel from scratch with a license they choose or by adding a CLA which would allow them to have much more right than their contributors.
This guys constantly thrash talks the linux kernel and their developers which i think is not the most sensible thing to do if you depend on their work. Is like if my product depends on windows and i constantly thrash talk the windows developers calling them incompetents but getting angry when they don't provide free L3 support or they simply don't want to support me in any way with the argument that without my project windows is a shit. Seriously, the biggest problem of this guys is their attitude because otherwise i would definitely feel their work would be sponsored by red hat or the linux foundation easily but they're constantly burning their bridges. At this point this guy's argument is "i already wasted 15 years of my life working on your kernel now you guys owe me to do what i want under the terms i want".
Benjamin James
Macbook Pro doesn't have this problem.
Blake Adams
>That term assumes there are arguments to counter, lad. ok so: >BSD user calls Linux hobby OS. >Counterargument with the fact that both projects are developed by paid professionals and used widely in the industry. >Then he doesn't address the counterargument but also uses as argument that "the way BSD started is more cool" which is unrelated. >point's that hes claim is unrelated. >LOL there's no argument in the first place.
Ok, last chance: "Both projects are developed significantly by paid professionals and/or they're used widely in the industry". Any objections?
Ian King
Good
Now we get SElinux and PAX to do them same.
Freetards ruin everything.
Robert Howard
Everything started because a giant (intel, maybe) used their brand without consent. In the end they realized how to make money with GPL software. Their unstable releases has lower performance too, and now nobody will test their software. A good way to be irrelevant even if they have many more advance ideas than MS or BSD towards hardening software.
Lucas Ramirez
>forfeit claims of superiority >best you can do at this point is "b-both are just as good, o-okay?!" MAXIMUM DAMAGE CONTROL
Ryder Parker
>forfeit claims of superiority Where?
>"best you can do at this point is "b-both are just as good, o-okay?!" So no objections to what i said?
>MAXIMUM DAMAGE CONTROL Well there goes your last chance, bye.
Nolan Moore
so skids won't be able to access the patchset now? sounds like an improvement
Ayden Richardson
>Grsecurity
A bunch of patches for Linux to be applied by the user; it still doesn't seem to be incorporated into any mainline Linux distros.
>OpenBSD
Features like stack smash protection and W^X are in the base system, on all possible platforms ,always on, and there's no easy "off-switch", so crapplications HAVE to be improved in order to work. I can't prove this (and I doubt anyone could), but I suspect that OpenBSD has resulted in more improvements to programs commonly used on Linux than GRSecurity has.
Ian Nelson
>This is a new low even for lincucks. just checked, openbsd now has free binary updates for base since 6.1 which was released 2 weeks ago. >New syspatch(8) utility for security and reliability binary updates to the base system. openbsd.org/61.html
>i believe the OS i choose to use makes me an intelligent individual wanna know how I know you have autism and are fat?
John Gray
oh look, is that blog with FUD about OpenBSD that gets posted as a last resourced by Lunix fanboys when they are out of arguments
NEXT
Connor Smith
You're wrong on both. I am over 12 though which most windows users aren't (mentally).
Jackson Phillips
>don't counter any the points made on said blog >simply attack the blog as fud
NEXT
Dylan Morris
Sysadmins at my school were fans and contributors to that shit 10 years ago. Hosted projects on their servers couldn't do shit before being killed for "security" reasons. Half of them ended working as advisors for government agencies. Everywhere they go, you can kiss your production goodbye...
Gabriel Gutierrez
Hard working professionals want to get paid for their contributions and FOSS nerds are up in arms.
So much for "you can make money with free software"
Michael Brooks
Feels good man. I have been a desktop user since I saw the pledge talk
Jack Sanders
Is there anything stopping a paying customer from providing them to the rest? Sure they could end your subscription but only if they can link it back to you. There are plenty of user hosting sites you could drop it on and announce in some way that can't link back to you.
Jack Ramirez
Just read the comments on the blog you imbecile.
There is nothing else to say about a 2010 post with a bunch of lies that will always get posted by faggots like you.
Camden Rogers
They will ban random people or even fine their entire suscriptor base, they're that retarded Out distribute fingerprinted versions to their customers like Hollywood does with screeners
Samuel Rogers
>still doesn't counter any points
NEXT
Ian Clark
Agreed: I believe this is a violation of s2(b) and s4 of GPLv2.
Hunter Ross
grsec is one big shill
Robert Sanders
>hard working professionals He should do it because he's passionate, not because he's greedy.
The Canadian government funded me to work on Linux and FreeBSD for 18 months on NSERC
Aaron Perry
OpenBSD doesn't have forward edge CFI'd kernel which eliminates ROP entirely. No mprotect, no UDEREF no KERNEXEC no STACKLEAK, no size overflow plugins and tons of other things. You can't turn those off on a running kernel either. Linux has had SSP for awhile too. It misses a lot that grsecurity/PaX has.
