Vietnam War

I've studied major wars for my electives in university but the one war I only got a brief understanding of was the Vietnam war.

Basically this is what happened...

>Americans come in after the French are defeated
>Aiyyo fuck communism spreading into SE Asia anymore
>Find the enemy in his own backyard
>Ooops he's waiting for us
>Ooops seeking and destroying is hard when they are expecting that
>Use major air power
>ohfuck.jpg they have MiG's and advanced AA
>Commies fight dirty
>Americans can't kill enough of them
> ???????? Liberals?????????
>War effort declining no more troops given
>Communists see weakness
>War ends, Commies win

What was the plan to win that war? It seems like it was based around ignorance of what literally just happened to France, a complete underestimation of a determined enemy and horrible strategy (ie. walking into hostile territory undermanned/outnumbered and hoping for the best). I realize the media fucked shit up for the US home front, but other than that there were massive issues across the board.

How could have the US possibly won Vietnam? OR was it really just a stop-gap to avoid a larger war later in Asia, as in when China jumped into Korea years earlier.

????

From what I understand the Americans literally thought that they would show up and all the commies would shit their pants and give up. They also couldn't conceive of the idea that people actually wanted communism. They also failed to see that the people saw the North and Vietcong as genuine liberators from colonial oppression.

It would be like the Nazis invading Poland and wondering why they weren't welcomed with open arms.

>It would be like the Nazis invading Poland and wondering why they weren't welcomed with open arms.
That's the worst comparison you could possibly make since the Nazis actually wanted to outright annex the land for Germany and displace/kill the local population.
Americans wanted to turn South Vietnam essentially into a copy of South Korea that is a stable, capitalist ally against the spread of communism.

You should note that the general population of American allies in Asia such as Japan, Korea, Taiwan did not live in misery and actually became much wealthier than their communist counterparts so it would have actually been beneficial for them while the Nazis taking over Poland would most definitely not have been good for the Poles.

>be american
>lose

Ho Chi Minh was a total bro until the Americans just fucked off after WW2, then started giving some minor support to the frogs. Then the frogs left and the americucks slowly kept adding more and more troops until they got tired and left.

>ohfuck.jpg they have MiG's and advanced AA
It was a problem but if America really wanted they could have carpet bombed the fucking shit out of the country. Yes the politicians were a problem, for example not letting them mine the harbour at Haiphong until very late in the war, but you're fooling yourself if you think that if the US had invaded the North and completely took over the country they would win.
Also all the peasants really liked the gommies and the US really fucked up the handling of the civilians which really didn't help.

>They also couldn't conceive of the idea that people actually wanted communism

They didn't though; that's why almost the whole middle class of SV fled to the US when the place fell in 1975.

from what i've gathered, it was mostly just a cluster fuck with no real purpose other than to stop communists from gaining sway in the French government and also for pres Johnson to look tough on Communism since his Great Society Program made him look socialist

no one had really given the war much though, thats why the beginning of it was just Operatin Rolling Thunder trying to intimidate them into giving up with our tech and money, it didn't work so we fucked off after a while

>bourgeois parasite class who were too lazy to help build socialism

The Americans banned elections in the 50s because polls showed that the commies would have won by a landslide. The reason why the Americans pulled a draw in Korea and failed in Nam was because in Korea there was actually some local support for the Western backed government. In Vietnam the people vehemently opposed American involvement and the Southern government.

On one hand, backing out would make you look like pussies to the world, Russia-chan would bully and hold power over you for being pussies, and the Trumane doctrine would be discarded in the trash like your degree.

On the other hand, you lost and now we all think your pussies, detente happened and your opinion goes into the trash like your degree

Not the best analogy, but the point I was trying to make is that it was like a foreign invader barging into a country struggling for freedom, trying to crush that struggle for freedom, and then wondering why nobody likes them.

It was a conspiracy to kill off young baby boomer men to try and curb the population in the future

Why do you think they were there until 1975 when the baby boomers were getting up and age and too old for service

Total casualties in Vietnam were 50,000 servicemen. Against the total population of under-25 males in the US at that time, that's a fraction of 1%.

I don't think there was much of any country anywhere where the mass of the population welcomed gommunism. The Bolsheviks had to use terror during the Russian civil war, also the CCP executed 800,000 people while consolidating power. In Eastern Europe it was imposed by Soviet tanks for 45 years.

>Ho Chi Minh

Don't forget about China.

Chinese workers helped rebuild war-torn Europe, says Hong Kong University historian Xu Guoqi. About 140,000 worked for American, British and French troops in France, his research shows. Up to half a million Chinese workers laboured on the eastern front for Tsarist Russia, before the empire crumbled in the 1917 Communist revolution, according to the unpublished research of historian Li Zhixue of Jinan University.

And Britain didn't do shit about it. Basically gave their land to Japan for nothing. Britain paid japan to sink a few U boats and then give them Chinese land.... THEN! Japan stabs china in the back in Manchuria. Sure USA came to fight Japan in ww2 but it was wayyyy to fucking late and the anti-west prop started before Japan landed in China.

TL;DR. Britain and France were responsible for the deadliest wars in Asia 1900-1975.

t. Xiang Dong

>Xiang-Dong Zhang Wei Wang, Assistant Professor
FTFY

They did bomb the fuck out of Vietnam. Iirc, they dropped three times more bombs than during whole wwii.

The Saigon government fell ultimately because Kennedy had a fit of liberal guilt and decided that Ngo Dien Diem was a dictator that it would look bad for the US to support so he had the CIA evict him from power. The corrupt military regimes which governed South Vietnam afterwards were a joke and even Ho Chi Minh was bewildered at the US-ordered deposal of Diem.

50000 confirmed KIA, not including MIA and never found

So like 100k people that will not receive pensions

Pretty good

>chinese workers on eastern from during wwii
I call bullshit. We didn't even allow minorities from our own country to go to the front fearing that they obtain weapons and he's implying we let total foreigners in this amount?

This.

and napalm
and agent orange

The strategies used by the White House and their micromanagement of the war were awful.

They bombed a shit ton, but not important targets in the North, at least until Linebacker.

>Russian education
triple kek, the 40th army was almost exclusively from Turkestan

>U.S. President Dwight D. Eisenhower wrote in 1954, "I have never talked or corresponded with a person knowledgeable in Indochinese affairs who did not agree that had elections been held as of the time of the fighting, possibly eighty percent of the population would have voted for the Communist Ho Chi Minh as their leader rather than Chief of State Bảo Đại.

They didn't want to invade the North...the memory of 1950 was still strong and everyone feared another Chinese attack. Personally I don't think Beijing would have done anything not in the least because the country was engulfed in the Cultural Revolution. Also China had nukes by the late 60s and it has been an unwritten rule that two nuclear powers never directly engage each other on the battlefield.

It's time to put the vodka bottle down Comrade. Time for bed now.

The communists won the elections that put them in power in Czechoslovakia fair and square, actually.

I think you might want to go to a /v4/ thread and argue that with Czech posters. They'd have a quite different opinion, Chairman Wong.

Same thing happened in Chile, Nicaragua, and Yugoslavia. Burgers are just literally incapable of comprehending that people wouldn't be 100% on board with being buttfucked by corporations.

They overstepped and took over and the 70s happened, but in the 50s they were elected. Delusional post-soviet myths aren't reality.

freedom aint free

And also Dubček was pretty popular, people were clamouring for his reforms, the Soviets just didn't like it too much.

Also forgot to mention Venezuela, there are still huge swaths of people that support Chavez's party even in the middle of all the bullshit happening there.

And I advise the rest of you to do likewise with Xiang here. :^)

ged sum

We didn't take the gloves off early enough
If we had turned hanoi into a parking lot it would've been easier

We should have just dropped a nuke on Hanoi and been done with it.

You literally dropped more bombs than all the countries in WW2 combined and it still didn't help.

>Dubček

Because we dropped it on the fucking jungle
It was literally retarded
for fuck sakes who was in charge of that shit
>LBJ
oh

Unrestricted ability to enter other countries, unrestricted fucking of Hanoi
No bullshit fucking ROE
Napalm everyfuckingwhere

gotta love these American armchair war maniac posts

>be australian
>lose to emus

>tfw actually engaging the NVA would probably have cause US casualties to skyrocket for literally no gain
>tfw they missed the Ho Chi Minh trail
>tfw the americans basically lost the air war and won't admit it.

Do Americans realise that this photo is of Australians and not Americans?

Nobody does unless they reverse image search it like you did.
Nobody cares either because when it comes to wars that don't go well everybody forgets everyone else who was involved but us.

I don't think you understand Americans
A solid majority of us fantasize about burning other countries to the ground

Sure if you do it out of the comfort of your home sofa watching the chaos unfold from FOX news.

arr rook same

You're damn fucking right

40th army which was created in 1979?

Are you retarded? How the fuck does it have connection to wwi?

It was also an ostfront formation, it was deactivated until afg but it was also mostly kazakh then.

During wwi there wasn't even 40th army, only 40th army corps and there were almost no Muslims at all in imperial army.

During wwi 40th army consisted of 135th and 293rd Rifle Divisions, 2nd Airborne Corps, 10th Tank Division, and 5th Anti-Tank Brigade, which were formed in Kiev.

The only reasons 40th army during Afghanistan was was formed in Turkmenistan is due to its proximity to Afghanistan.

If you actually read up on the structure you'll see that except for Muslim battalion of GRU there were no Turkmen units at all.

It's a sickness, really.

Learned that one the hard way.

the epiloghe first France out and massacrated second China win on USA

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