BSD And Other Things

/bsd/ - *BSD General Thread
Discuss FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, DragonFlyBSD, OPNsense, FreeNAS, etc.

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freebsd.org/handbook
openbsd.org/faq
netbsd.org/docs

Curious Linux user? Ask questions, get answers...

Other urls found in this thread:

man.openbsd.org/speaker
man.openbsd.org/intel
tedunangst.com/flak/post/experiments-with-prepledge
netbsd.org/ports/
netbsd.org/ports/history.html
hardenedbsd.org/content/easy-feature-comparison
openwall.com/lists/kernel-hardening/2017/06/03/14
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

What is the best option for a BSD desktop? Freebsd?

I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.

Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called "Linux", and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.

There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called "Linux" distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux.

today i learned that openbsd has support for MML through /dev/speaker, what the fuck
man.openbsd.org/speaker

depends

...

FreeBSD devs don't even use FreeBSD, OpenBSD's actually dogfooded

macOS Sierra user reporting in
I love BSD/Unix .. much better than Linux imo

Novice Linux user here. What does BSD make BSD? What's so special about it?

I found an old thinkpad t410 in my basement. I will install openBSD on it tomorrow. Please keep this thread alive so I can use it for my personal support tomorrow

>openbsd
Man what a waste of machinery.

OpenBSD's the best.

...

ebin

Do people actually use BSD on the desktop?

Yes

I tried TrueOS and FreeBSD in a VM. The pkg system is nice (almost like Slackware's slackpkg) but there's just not enough software for me to switch.

How is it? I heard its pretty secure if you don't install anything additional. What is the fucking point if you can't install additional software though?

It's pretty nice
>What is the fucking point if you can't install additional software though?
I don't use it for muh security, I use it because I like it. So I install whatever I want.

This, plus it comes with things you'd need anyway. Want to serve a static site? Httpd is there. Wanna scale the site? Relayd. Switching platform? Switchd. Firewall? Pf.

Anything more may not be vetted as heavily, but are at least for the most part configured sane on install.

I often use my computer for downloading torrents and watching .mkv videos. Does OpenBSD support that out-of-the-box?

no but you can easily add those through the package manager

pkg_add mpv (i believe mpv can read mkv containers)
pkg_add torrentclienthere

Thanks for the info.

My only complaint with openbsd is trying to turn it into a desktop or laptop system requires some work and rice to make it feel okay.

Can FreeBSD play league of legends?

If it can I will get my friends to switch too

Install Windows

shoutout to the BAOT lads :ok: :laughingcrying:

[20:18] SO THIS IS MY ROOM
[20:18] AND THESE ARE MY SONICHU POSTERS
[20:18] AND THIS IS MY blakkheim HUGPILLOW

I gotta check out the new GOATMOON album, they're such a great band...

what the fuck?

Open.

Each one has its specialty. FreeBSD has ZFS, OpenBSD is very secure and simple, NetBSD runs on strange/old/exotic hardware.

Almost everything you could want on Linux will work on BSD, with the exception of proprietary software.

What makes OpenBSD the best?

For desktop use specifically? The developers all use it themselves, in contrast to both Free and Net. This produces a much smoother experience since desktopy things actually get tested.

Why not? FreeBSD looks like the best choice for a desktop.

freebsd devs all use it in virtualization on their macs.

JOIN #BAOT ON IRC.RIZON.NET

fuck irc and fuck white people

>Sup Forums
>support

white power, nigger

that is actually a myth, there was a post on one of the old threads where they claim they use it on their thinkpads with no problem, freeBSD has no problems running on most hardware, but me personally I would rather install hardenedBSD, its freeBSD but with a ton of security patches

>that is actually a myth

Go to a mainly-FreeBSD event like MeetBSD. All the devs are using Macbooks. Now go to a multi-BSD event like BSDCan. See all the Macbooks? FreeBSD people are easy to identify. NetBSD people are the same. Only OpenBSD devs actually use their OS as a desktop.

>freeBSD has no problems running on most hardware

Very broad and inaccurate statement. How about the newest Intel graphics? Nope, not on FreeBSD. Maybe tucked away in some "development tree" somewhere, but not with regular FreeBSD (even -CURRENT).


>but me personally I would rather install hardenedBSD

Lipstick on a pig. Stay far away from FreeBSD if security is a concern.

doesn't mean that they're not just running freebsd on baremetal macs

Hope you don't need wifi then.Because it won't work. The graphics might not either, depending on which generation of MBP it is.

maybe it's an older gen macbook with a USB wifi adapter

What happens after you admit you're BSD curious?

you try BSD

another cool thing I like about NetBSD is that it's not just a portable OS, it has a portable build system that can bootstrap itself with whatever cross compiler you need for your target platform.

Wasn't there a FreeBSD release that didn't even work outside of a VM? That should really say something about how little the devs use it.

If openbsd devs use openbsd with a desktop. Then why does their base still ship fvwm as default?

you can choose between fvwm, twm and cwm

My guess would be that they all pkg_add their preferred window manager or desktop environment.

Totally wild guess here.

fuck opnsense.

that is all.

Im going to give it a try

its true. even Marshall Kirk McKusick uses a mac and he's the godfather of freebsd

This guys is correct, FreeBSD devs do not use their OS for desktop usage.

Not dog fooding your own OS has its pitfalls.

well he's gay

Actually you're wrong, it's just that the FreeBSD devs have money to get Macs alongside their dev laptops, unlike the OpenBSD devs who run around with 10 year old laptops. Really makes you think ;)

If you develop an operating system, you use that operating system. It's like seeing Torvalds with a...

Oh wait, didn't Torvalds run Linux on his MacBook Air?

yeah they're poor. thats why the devs give presentations at conferences all over the world.

Depends on what you want to do. I prefer OpenBSD, but FreeBSD has better video drivers.

Maybe they use cwm, like I do.

Does OpenBSD (or FreeBSD for that matter) support hardware acceleration of video decoding, something like VA-API? Can I watch 1080p/60 youtube without having 50%+ CPU usage?

man.openbsd.org/intel

So, it doesn't support it, I guess I won't be switching to it anytime soon then.

VA-API is a software thing, I think it depends on the video player you use and whether you have X or not. OpenBSD does have X.

>VA-API is a software thing
No? It's a software interface to the hardware video decoder in your video card, to use it you have to have it implemented in the video drivers, and my googling says OpenBSD doesn't support it. And it has nothing to do with X, you can use it in Wayland too.

What bullshit did you hear?

OpenBSD is a nicely configured system out of the box, secure and stable with a well timed release schedule. Just like Ubuntu.

Real-world scenarios.

tedunangst.com/flak/post/experiments-with-prepledge

Kind of sounds like sandbox for untrusted sw is possible with pledge(2)

So, I've been reading www.netbsd.org/about/features.html and I can't help but cringe a lot:
>CVS repository
>Their main platforms are Alpha systems with lots of RAM and diskspace (terabyte and up)
>the first free OS to make a y2k statement.
>latest high end hardware available in Alpha
>High performance PCI IDE
>NetBSD supports large capacity DVD
>NetBSD was the first free OS to provide USB support
>NetBSD fully supports IDE disks of over 34GB in size
It's like they're still in the late 90s.
I mean, what's even the point of NetBSD nowadays? Linux supports more CPU architectures and more platforms, among them the actually relevant ones like AArch64 and Risc-V. NetBSD can't even run on RaspPI 3 because it still doesn't support AArch64, nor does it support USB 3.0.

But will arch install on an embedded microcontroller in your fucking toaster?

No. Ask the folks at netbsd? If it doesn't already than if enough people care to it will soon (tm).

...

Pretty clever adaptation. Like strlcpy/strlcat it's the simple stuff which can make a difference. It's really only glibc that keeps this stuff out of standard C.

how to add other keyboard layout in openbsd, because by default keyboard layout for my keyboard is missing

See src/sys/dev/pckbc/wskbdmap_mfii.c

apropos keyboard

No, but openwrt will.
>If it doesn't already than if enough people care to it will soon (tm).
Lel, they can't even implement AArch64.

HardenedBSD is great to use on servers.

NetBSD supports most architectures, Linux is really limited.
NetBSD has some really cool things and driver development is easy with it.
PS Vita uses NetBSD afaik

This is objectively false, NetBSD was the most portable OS back in the late 90s - early 2000s, but now Linux supports more CPU architectures, more platforms, and more importantly, it supports all the new architectures and platforms, meanwhile, more than half of platforms in netbsd.org/ports/ have been dead for decades now.

I mean, just look at this sad page: netbsd.org/ports/history.html , in the past 10 years NetBSD has been ported to one new platform only, and it was back in 2011. Nowadays you can't even run NetBSD on AVR32 controllers, POWER (not PowerPC) processors, AArch64 (i.e. PasbPI 3), not you won't be able to run it on lowRISC once it's released, because NetBSD doesn't support RISC-V. As a result, no one runs NetBSD in production, no one releases products based on NetBSD, all the home routers, access points, toasters and cars out there run Linux.

hardenedbsd.org/content/easy-feature-comparison

Just needs more developers :D

So, why FreeBSD is so bad, don't they care about security at all?
And why fork an already half-dead OS, why not merge all that back?

upstreaming problems, just like Linux has with grsecurity.
But the Linux one just escalated : openwall.com/lists/kernel-hardening/2017/06/03/14
Security wise FreeBSD lacks things but in terms of features all *BSDs have something good and things that are missing in one or another BSD for example FreeBSD has MAC & jails
OpenBSD has privilege separation & quality code & some more features & LibreSSL
NetBSD has PaX ASLR & MPROTECT & veriexec & kauth
HardenedBSD has what FreeBSD has + LibreSSL + jails + MAC.

It's just choosing the right tools for what you need.

basically summing up security features for different *BSDs

I tried openbsd in a laptop once, but it doesn't have support for my WiFi card.

sucks to be (you)

It's the other way around. Closed-source hardware refuses to support many OSes.

For what kind of operations would you recommend BSD ?
Which one ?

What's so special about ZFS ?
Gonna build a NAS and it looks like ZFS is the shit.

FreeBSD for a NAS.

What exactly is superior in FreeBSD for a NAS ? ZFS ? It looks like it's the "same" as BTRFS (and I still can't understand why everyone praises it).

brtfs is not yet production ready, atleast they say..
ZFS is being used in production systems and more stable.
FreeBSD has ZFS, don't use Linux with ZFS since it might break more often?
Jails is also very cool if you want to run services but jailed.

I just installed openBSD on my media center to play around and it's super comfy.

I'm considering to detach it from my TV since it's basically just my old notebook and use it again for a while to see if OpenBSD is OK as m main system and consider switching completely.

Does any of you run OpenBSD as main system here or is it a bad idea?

It's a bad idea if you want to watch 1080p/60fps youtube videos without 100% cpu usage.

It's not 100% butt it's pretty bad. Why does this happen?

They ARE poor dude. OpenBSD is barely alive from a lack of funding, so help them you moron instead of shitposting about how rich they are. Fucking idiot I swear to god

->

BTRFS has a better feature set and is an order of magnitude faster than ZFS.
jails are garbage
systemd-nspawn is much better. It will automatically setup bridged networking and a snapshot of your environment to work from.

> is an order of magnitude faster than ZFS.
I'm not a bsd-fag, but stop spreading blatant lies m8, btrfs is slow.

It looks like BTRFS is better if I have to replace an HD than ZFS, what about it too ?