>Getting started Get a good understanding of HTML, CSS and JavaScript. Everything you learn will have these as their base. The Mozilla Developer Network offers a good intro (no matter your browser choice) developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Learn/Getting_started_with_the_web
Doing a bunch of php webdriver scripting lately to test updates on e-commerce site I work on.
Really enjoying it. Is there a career path I could go down with this?
Angel Richardson
sure - i wouldnt limit yourself to one language though. And I hope youre using php7+ because old php is shit
Ryan Stewart
What if I did one big php script to handle all of the buttons in my html form instead of having separate html files for each thing I want to do?
Example:
display records
display clients
Can anyone see anything going horribly wrong with this idea? It would really clean up my wwwroot directory.
Ian Watson
sure, you could dump everything into one file. you'll see why this is a bad idea when you go over like 300 lines or so
Sebastian Sanders
Actually in notepad ++ it lets me minimize every start of php. It cleans up nicely. I just want to know if this is just a really bad idea otherwise.
Elijah Smith
yes thats fine but you dont need all the seperate opening and closing php tags
just put everything in one tag
Christopher Scott
Well, I need to close the tag for the HTML script to run don't I? It's all after each tag.
Nathaniel Diaz
>all after each tag
wat
Jackson Richardson
Yeah it displays a new page depending on what the form button is named.
Carter Thomas
...
Ian Long
How do you handle not being able to achieve as much at the beginning as you wish, /wdg/? I've been designing and developing web pages for a month now and have been looking into Github to dive into as a means to build applications and get them out into the world as portfolio material. But PHP and various Javascript frameworks are way above my level of skill at the moment. Yet I want to build a sweet portfolio and grab a nice job ASAP.
Robert Hughes
What platform do you use to develop your web pages?
James Carter
HTML and CSS, ezpz level.
Lucas Phillips
Please don't actually use PHP to display HTML.
Use something to manipulate the DOM depending on an ajax return like jquery at the most basic. What you are doing has been "old school" for like 5 years.
Levi Morris
Learn JS. It's pretty easy.
No one really hires an HTML/CSS only designer these days.
Josiah Perry
>What you are doing has been "old school" for like 5 years. no it has not. "it's not hip" is a pretty dumb reason not to do something. you need to try better
Nathaniel Garcia
yeah this
have your php scripts spit out JSON, then use AJAX to bind it to your html pages. This is what most frameworks do, but its more fun if you do it raw
Noah Jenkins
It's not, that's what I am getting at. I've been learning JS as well but it is going to take some time to get to a competent level. So all I can do at the moment is HTML and CSS while all the big boys are playing in Github. I want to make big projects but it just has to take some time to get to the level of being able to do so, which is very frustrating.
Wyatt Cooper
it actually is a pretty old school way of doing things, plus back end mixed with front end code can be a hassle to even look at and manage
Caleb Jenkins
I don't know how to do that though. I'm not actually a developer, I just picked up some html, css, php and sql and run a ticketing and CRM system because the online solutions sucked and cost too much.
I was wondering about displaying those pages in php because I don't know if it's going to impact anything long term, but the system is pretty much done at this point.
I don't even know Java. The system works pretty well though, even has email notifications using phpmailer
Adam Wilson
this is the problem with web dev - people get boners for HTML and CSS and think thats what builds apps nowadays. It's not. Its just front end crap to make things look pretty. Start with back end then go to front end. Learn how to program first and foremost. People latch onto "koding" HTML/CSS tutorials because well, its not real programming therefor its much easier. Literally anyone can do HTML. Though it can be a bitch at times, especially CSS.
Become full stack or die trying.
Gavin Gray
>it actually is a pretty old school way of doing things by what standards? the fact that it's less featured on hipster-ish webdev blogs than it was before? it is still used today, especially in internal enterprise webapps that have shitload of complex forms and other controls but don't neccesarily have high appeal to hip users as main requirement
>plus back end mixed with front end code can be a hassle to even look at and manage rendering html documents server-side doesn't equate forgoing separation of concerns
Christopher Sanders
if your app works then it works, cool, dont forget about security. Your next project i'd recommend doing things more "modernly" though , but do whatever the fuck you wanna do
Aiden Parker
Yeah I know it's pretty old school looking but really easy to use and navigate.
I needed to get the techs focused on the work and not the process.
Gabriel Bailey
the standard of technology rapidly changing and pushing the envelope. What developers dont want to happen if to use one way of doing something, and years and years later when better ways of doing things comes out, they are still using their old ways. It's not necessarily "bad" nor does it make anyone a shitty developer, you're just not up to par with the latest technologies. AJAX has been around for years though, so I personally think it's kind of silly not to use it.
Dominic Fisher
I've a website using bootstrap 3.3.4, to update to latest 3.3.7 I just need to change the css/js?
Nathaniel Mitchell
>rendering html documents server-side doesn't equate forgoing separation of concerns Can you elaborate on this?
Nicholas Diaz
again - this isnt about how it looks. I dont know if you really know the difference between front end and back end. Look at this site. Or craigslist. Shitty simple front ends but its fine because the back end is the magic behind the sites. Your app can look identical to how it is now and do everything its currently doing without ever refreshing the page (and im sure you could get the number of lines of code way down).
Luke Morales
you're incorrectly assumin that using xhr everywhere instead of sending server-side rendered html is better for every usecase
>AJAX has been around for years though, so I personally think it's kind of silly not to use it. what a silly blanket statement. it's silly not to use it when you would benefit form using it, and it's silly to use it when you would not only because "it has been around for years"
in MVC pattern your views are completely separated from both your controller logic and your business logic
Brayden Green
Thanks, I'll keep that in mind for upgrading the back end. w3schools a good start?
Ryan Johnson
if the OP is the same person who posted his php code with tags in every POST request, then yes I think thats an old depreciated way of doing things. You dont want to use something just because its been around for years, thats not what im saying. I'm saying it makes you even more behind on current technologies because ajax has been around for a long time.
Noah Allen
cont.
a car mechanic could still be building Model T's, but how employable would he be? How would his career go compared to if he was working on Tesla's or other modern cars?
Nathaniel Sullivan
No I mean which platform? Visual studio?
Andrew Murphy
yea sure thats actually how i learned, once you understand this then you should be good to go
Not necessarily. Notice how buggy operating systems and new software is when they're first released? Time tested methods do have their place as well as new methods.
The military for example still uses PCMCIA in new fighter jets.
Ian Martin
Learn Bootstrap to help with laying out your front end quickly and easily. Don't worry about frameworks in regards to PHP etc just yet. You can build with vanilla PHP.
just do tutorials on whatever you're trying to achieve and bend them to your will.
Angel Reed
i dont understand how software testing as anything to do with this, it has to be tested anyway. The greatest and latest piece of code can still be buggy
also military technology is outdated as fuck - Trump was actually right on that shit
Jordan Harris
>if the OP is the same person who posted his php code with tags in every POST request, then yes I think thats an old depreciated way of doing things. it is and I never denied that. but if he were to still render everything on the server but also apply the MVC pattern then it would be neither deprecated nor oldschool
>I'm saying it makes you even more behind on current technologies because ajax has been around for a long time. of course not knowing AJAX is a serious lack in webdev knowledge, but that doesn't mean you have to apply AJAX to everything because anything else is "oldschool" which the first post I replied to stated
>w3schools a good start? not really, see: w3fools.com/
Chase White
Depending on your goals I guess. I'm totally on board with new developers getting into the new technology if that's the career path or hobby they want to pursue.
My goal was that I needed a smoother running office, so I wrote an ordering and ticketing system which also happened to save the company over 6,000 a year in subscription fees. I dove in from scratch with no programming background and in a few months on my spare time I cobbled this together and went with it.
What I was hoping to achieve by asking if generating the HTML off of the post requests in a big PHP script was going to cause any back end problems in the future because I simply don't know.
Justin Rogers
Remember to use prepared statements and avoid mysql_ functions, to avoid SQL injection.
Read about applying a csrf token to your forms.
Ian Cruz
You never see learning paths that start back end with a focus on being a full stack, any recommends?
Dominic Bailey
I've got a message on LinkedIn from a recruiter about a senior frontend role. I only have 2 years experience and have shaky foundations in a lot of places. What do?
Ryan Lee
I'd stick with individual files. Best would be static. Built some toy things like a blog and such with cgi and shell scripts like that, it's actually quite clean and you spend less time serving your requests, since it's only static, easily cachaeble files.
Logan Martinez
whats a good learning resource for jsp full stack? I want to transition from asp.net, but don't really know where to start since visual studio did a lot of the setup work.
Jaxson Powell
I am in middle of JavaScript,is W3Schools good for beginner? I am in half way modules and strings and it feels quite boring,should I just past through those?
Eli Foster
My favorite are those people who after hearing I'm a wev developer say "Oh I made a website in college" like bitch no you didn't. Dragging a textbox in dreamweaver isn't web dev.
Zachary Thomas
hey Sup Forums. So I've been teaching myself how to program by using resources such as FreeCodeCamp and Team Treehouse online for the past month, but wanted to know if I should work on my theory of computer science or mathematics as I don't have a strong background in either of them. I'm looking to become a front or back end web developer. Are there any resources or books you could recommend for me?
Elijah Anderson
Stop calling things "hipster" when your main method of web dev is using PHP for its intended purpose.
I've built huge website your way back when it was still acceptable and it was an absolute pain in the ass to update. Once I switched to PHP backend returning json to parse with jquery my websites have been EZPZ single-page apps ever since and I never have to refresh the page to put out new elements. I didn't tell you your method was bad to be a dick. I told you your method was bad because it is bad and I gave you a more modern alternative
Leo Ross
Take it, obviously.
Even if hey fire you, you still have senior dev on your resume.
How can I avoid it being displayed as a bulletpoint list rather than just a regular cloud of links next to each other?
Jeremiah Lopez
Doesnt all this AJAX stuff mean that you're fucked if a user decides to block JavaScript?
Oliver Wright
ul.tagcloud { list-style: none; padding: 0; /* or whatever you want; just reset the default 40px on left */ }
will remove the dots
Why is each list item its own table? Did you mean to display ul as a table, and make each li a row or something?
Jackson Flores
Yes.
Leo Brooks
>Doesn't all this app shit mean that you're fucked if a user decides not to install your app? Yeah, and?
Ethan Rogers
There's a difference between installing an app and visiting a website. Websites should be fully functional without js, shouldnt they?
Jason Price
This is how I wanted to make it look like, originally had display as inline and thought that was the issue.
Brody Martin
>Stop calling things "hipster" when your main method of web dev is using PHP for its intended purpose. You must be confusing me with someone else. I haven't really touched php since like 2004 or so
ideally, but in some cases assuring that it does requires so much time and effort that it's not worth it
Michael Davis
Your word of the day is "TWIG".
>Websites should be fully functional without js, shouldnt they? Okay, better analogy: >Doesn't all this app shit mean that you're fucked if a user decides not to grant your app Internet access? Not everything a browser can reach via http(s) is a website. For better or worse, the executable web has been a thing for 15-20 years now and I doubt people on either end of that http(s) link are going to give up the performance and bandwidth improvements realizable.
Luis Sanders
if retard tinfoilers want to block javascript they can get fucked and have no right to bitch about broken functionality
Matthew Mitchell
Okay, any tips on what to do if slapping list-style: none; everywhere does nothing and I still get a list with bullet points?
Luis Robinson
Check list-style-image and display attributes. Or open up your element inspector, look at the computed style, and counteract it as needed.
Brayden Morgan
Do you have nested lists?
Also note that it should be on the , not the
Christopher Johnson
I don't understand, unless you mean general text editor. I use Brackets
Samuel Cox
Can I prevent splitting words/links between lines in css?
Matthew Roberts
You want the white-space property.
nowrap makes it so that everything stays on one line.
pre makes it so that everything stays on one line unless you have line breaks or s in the source.
Nathan Taylor
I need to have white space as pre-line because otherwise all the text turns into a single line that disappears at the edge of the screen.
Gabriel Young
Speaking of CSS, is it OK for me to think its a finicky piece of shit that was invented by libfags to make the internet look "nice"
Owen Stewart
no, but it would be ok for you to kindly keep Sup Forums out of this thread
Jaxon Hill
So you do want things to wrap at some point? But just not within individual words or within links?
Default behavior is not to break individual words up. The properties that control individual words being broken between lines are "overflow-wrap" and "word-break".
As far as not breaking links, will just giving the elements white-space: pre; work?
I guess it's a bit finicky at times. But I personally don't mind it, and having it as an option is a good thing, rather than having to use table layouts for everything.
Isaac Green
Something I am working on... Thoughts?
Charles Butler
It is a finicky piece of shit. But it's gotten a little better lately with flexible layout, new display: values like inline-block, and some of the alignment options.
Jeremiah Turner
Are asp.net and java-ee still the top techno for acceptable ($500+/month) webdev jobs today?
Jordan Thomas
>still the top techno for acceptable
what are you trying to say here, pajeet... java/asp net were recognized as shit a decade+ ago.
Kayden Bailey
Oh kek. PHP webshits are making $30k/yr these days in most places. If you're a serious backend engineer you can probably do better than that.
Xavier Mitchell
I was thinking about picking up a subscription to pluralsight, I was going to aim for C# as my first language and JS as well.
Is C# a good choice? Marketwise as well a powerful language? I'm wanting to secure my future so I want a language that would transfer to another industry just in case the web dev bubble bursts.
I'm not him btw.
Aaron Torres
yes
>java/asp net were recognized as shit a decade+ ago by who? certainly not by medium-/large-sized companies which are still betting on them hard. and it's still where the jobs are (if you exclude the pajeet-tier low paying php&co. ones)
Brody James
That user can fuck himself and his tinfoil hat ass isn't in my target market anyways.
Joseph Collins
Nope.
Every major browser supports JS so if someone disables it then they are knowingly making half the web unuseable.
Noah Wright
And you should all be banned.
Jayden Murphy
By not being a pussy. You "deal" with things by being just a tiny bit mentally resilient, and not a shivering bitch.
Alexander Williams
It was great in the 90s. It's way way outdated for the dhit we do nowadays. To get things where you want them, on mobile and desktop, it's a chaotic circus of translates, media queries, and display types. Of course you could always use bootstrap and limit your creative freedom because any custom alignment and positioning breaks the piece of shit.
It needs a rewrite that scraps display types and has a proper vertical align.
Camden King
so I just php json_encode the output, fetch it via ajax, and manipulate/display it from there? is it a recommended practice?
i'm more of a js person so i guess that would make it easy for me once the data has been "jsonified"
Blake Gutierrez
>How do you structure folders in your php app? Assuming your folder is named 'myProject': $rmdir -r myproject $mkdir myproject && cd myproject $npm init
Juan Rivera
Have you heard of CSS Rhythmic Sizing? It fixes at least part of your problem.
Bretty much. If you really do need something no-scriptable, you should probably use a template engine instead of embedded PHP. Bonus: you can often reuse the templates on the client side with a template engine there, should you need to.
Noah Turner
No, it's not good. It's vastly outdated, and a lot of its info is just plain wrong. - They don't mention function expressions - They don't mention ES6 at all - They don't really explain asynchronous programming at all (except in the context of AJAX) - Their order is completely fucking arbitrary.
Trust me, you're better off going somewhere else.
Caleb Collins
Does anybody really make this little money in web?
Logan Martinez
Actually not terrible, but your right aligned column on the bottom has no alignment with the corresponding left side. This indicates that you have no formal training in design, and your design will consequently fall apart as soon as you have enough elements for the layout to be realistically complex.
Luke Hughes
In this day and age, no. Expecting your site to work perfectly without JS is idiotic with a modern browser.
Thomas Myers
CS yes, but don't go to school, obviously. Mathematics, no.
Kevin Bell
#pol{ white-space:all; }
Noah Rivera
>Promises Yep, if you're still here, dude that asked that question. Basically, you're running into the issue of Asynchronous programming: With just two, simple requests (get resource A, get resource B), you can chain them. But with multiple requests, you basically need to structure it so that you get the 'response' once all requests are back. You can do this one of two ways: 1. Callback nesting and recursive function calling: let foods = ['Apple','Banana','Cherry','Durian','Eggplant'], results = []; const getAFood = function(){ someAsyncRequest(foods.shift(),function(r){ results.push(r.data); if(foods.length){ getAFood(); }else{ //do something with all the data } }) }
That's fine, but if you have a large number of items, that's gonna get pretty nasty. What's worse is that if ONE of the requests fails, you're likely gonna miss ALL of them.
2. The second option is Promises, which are like little tickets with three statuses: Pending, Resolved, and Rejected. Most promise libraries - Q, Bluebird, the ES6 promise library - basically offer a .all() function of some sort that, each time a promisified AJAX request comes back, checks to see how many promises are still pending, compares it to some total, and only returns the result once they're 'all' done.
