Ok, so I'm sure we've all heard the clever analogies of net neutrality to deliverymen refusing to deliver certain goods to homes for whatever reason, unless the goods provider pays up (in Netflix's case this analogy works perfectly).
However, and I haven't seen anyone account for this, isn't this simply a blatant breaking of contract? If, as a customer, I paid money to USPS or Verizon to deliver me a good, at a certain speed no less (3-day delivery or 10 Mb/sec), it cannot be legal for them to intentionally delay said delivery, for any reason whatsoever.
Most intelligent people I know disagree with net neutrality merely on the basis that this situation cannot possibly be legal, it is so absurd. A customer paid for a certain service, how can the service provider not fulfill its end of the agreement?
You're missing the whole point. If net neutrality were to go away, it would become like TV, where you have to subscribe to packages and get a limited amount of channels.
Grayson Adams
I'm not sure what I'm not getting.
At any rate, don't we already pay for internet packages in a sense, choosing the types of speed that we want, etc?
Ryder Perry
>How can this be explained? To quote Cave Johnson;
"Right. Now, you might be asking yourself, 'Cave, just how difficult are these tests? What was in that phone book of a contract I signed?
What was in that contract?
Well that contract will include a clause that says they don't have to do anything and fuck you. You buy a service up to a set speed. They will try to connect you. Will try to deliver you data but in the end they have no obligation to do anything.
When they start shaping your network traffic that's legal. Right until ISP got reclassified as utilities then the government can regulation them for aspect like how they treat traffic and just what level of service they can claim to sell vs what they actually deliver.
James Evans
Yes, but we have the freedom to go wherever we want on the Internet. This current bill restricts exactly that...It's like me buying a car according to my financial situation but having the freedom to go wherever I want with that car.
Jaxson Parker
FFFFUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK
Hunter Long
Ok, so I can envision that very easily, thanks for the explanation, companies do indeed pull that stuff quite often. However, if we are going to claim the the devil lies in the details, then I would like to read some analysis or some reputable source that claims this as well merely for the purposes of being able to use this in a conversation. I want to believe this, but do you know anyplace else that does?
Logan Butler
>If net neutrality were to go away, it would become like TV, where you have to subscribe to packages and get a limited amount of channels. This sounds like bullshit. Can you elaborate?
>Inb4 inevitable shitpost by /Pol that claims Liberals and government is at fault and only corporations can save us.
Camden Cruz
not true, it isn't quite like that the way net neutrality willl occur if it fails isn't that they'll be charging YOU more money for services but they'll be charging services more money to get to you. Basically they can set the speeds of services, it doesn't completely limit shit but what's the point of streaming for example if they slow you to dial up tier speeds.
Basically they get to chose who thrives and with their customers. Expect most media to be slowed down to promote the cable company's own shitty services instead of actually making their services competitive.
Matthew Brown
Not quite how he put it, but close. It's traffic prioritization, and it happened all the time behind the sheets before February 26th, 2015 when net neutrality came into place. Every ISP was slowing down consumer's traffic when they tried to use Netflix to promote their own video streaming services.
Charles Wright
Sup Forums and the Russian state actors already have a couple threads up on Sup Forums already.
Juan Lewis
How can this at all be legal under a contract where users agree to pay a certain amount for a specific certain speed?
Carter Kelly
net neutrality was never enforced anyway
Zachary Rodriguez
The terms of the contract are so that it is legal, you should try reading one of them some time
Lucas Reed
Wrong game
James Brown
I wonder if any of us really know what those contracts are specifically made of.
Lucas Brown
>Wow guys, we have a problem. Those government granted monopolies caused a huge mess >Well how do you suggest we solve it? >MORE GOVERNMENT!
Jeremiah Reed
No, stop spreading this bullshit.
ISPs are already over that idea. Simple throttling is a billion times more profitable to them than outright blocking websites, and they know it.
The "pay for websites like tv channels" concept is a strawman, and ISPs love it when that misinformation continues to spread.
Because if people protest it loudly enough that lawmakers take action, they're only going to ban that particular concept, and explicitly not ban anything else. Net neutrality will seem "saved" on paper, but for the ISPs it'll stay business like usual.
Grayson Reed
>If net neutrality were to go away, it would become like TV, where you have to subscribe to packages and get a limited amount of channels. So why didn't that happen at any point over the last 30 years? Network neutrality may have been the standard all that time, but it was never enforced by federal regulation until now.
Because telecommunication infrastructure wasn't completely fucked and monopolized before Bush and King Nigger came around
Austin Moore
Most of those contacts have a clause stating that it can change without you consent and acknowledgement
Jose Ramirez
the real answer is "i don't know" unless everyone on Sup Forums happens to be a lawyer that fully understands and has read in depth about net neutrality.
Elijah Mitchell
this guy gets it
James Stewart
>in a free market Franchising is a thing, also the infrastructure sitting on Utility poles and not being a utility is kinda weird.
Liam Collins
Wrong.
Gabriel Smith
Well, this kind of answer seems to suggest every nigger should know literally everything about every legal issue to hold a valid opinion, which is ludicrous. If it seems bad, after having done your best research, then stick to that opinion.
David Edwards
Right
Connor Campbell
>by granting a federal regulatory agency more authority Wow, slanted much? While this is technically true, it would more accurately be characterized as "by stripping the ISP of its permission to commit foulplay or abuse of a widley monopolized system"
Camden Brown
Yes. "Free" market, goy
Hunter Hill
Better option would be to disable blocking / throttling of sites but allow ISPs to do what they want.
Lucas Ross
>google supports net neutrality Gee I wonder why these blatant fucking Sup Forums threads aren't being deleted.
Jaxon Fisher
>NN the great deception this is why even comcast is pushing NN
>A customer paid for a certain service, how can the service provider not fulfill its end of the agreement? ToS changed, bitch, and it's on you to pay attention. You'd no longer pay for XX kB/s, you'd pay for XX kB/s when connecting to partnered content providers. Nonpartnered content providers (companies who don't want to give your local ISP $$$$) have a maximum speed of Y kB/s, regardless of your internet package.
Dominic Edwards
>free market do Sup Forums faggots really believe america has a free market? that's honestly funnier than half the shit in YLYL threads
Wyatt Cook
The problem is that the ISPs right the contract in such a way to fuck you over. Unlike with USPS you pay your ISP for up to a certain speed (usually) so they can deliver at whatever speed the feel like for any site. Net neutrality adds regulation to prevent this.
Nathaniel Gonzalez
>Wow guys, we have a problem. Those monopolies that promised to fairly use tax funds to build infrastructure for everyone to use decided to force competition off the lines. >Well how do you suggest we solve it? >LET THE COMPANIES DO WHAT THEY WANT!
Ryan James
Nice leading question and answers Sup Forumstard.
Lincoln Edwards
>google supports something therefore it's bad Look we all know google is pretty evil alot of the time but that doesn't mean everything they support is evil. Ever heard of project zero or summer of code?
Easton Bell
You know, I wouldn't actually mind if they'd pass a stupid bill like making websites responsible for their users content.
It would kill Sup Forums, sure, but it would also kill facebook and all other social media sites pretty damn quick. The internet would fall back into the state it was in the late 90s / early 00s, when someone being present on the Internet meant that they had a website they coded themselves. Sure, it had a lot of ezboard-tier crap, but there were also so many personal sites oozing with creativity.
I remember following a guy who changed the design on his site every few months or so, it always looked so great - and today? he shot down the domain because there's no point paying for something he can get for free; he uses a tumblr blog instead.
Also, being a web dev would finally mean something more than writing wordpress.org templates.
Charles Edwards
Google supported Obama and his tyrannical reign. Google needs to be shut down, NOW. Supporting google is supporting socialism.
Noah Flores
This person doesn't know what they are talking about. There have been instances of throttling, like when comcast throttled netflix and torrents.
Andrew Bennett
It is pretty funny. You can tell they 15yo lolbertarians who have no actual knowledge of economics and just regurgitate the shit Sup Forums tells them.
Daniel Foster
I don't know why it's even a debate. Net Neutrality SUCKS ASS. It's government control of the internet...and you know what the government will do? censor censor censor and throtle you down to a very slow speed, everyone will have that same speed, thus a neutral internet.
Remember when we handed the government our health care system with Obamacare? Didn't work out, did it? We used to have the best in the world, people from other countries would come here for the care they could not get at home, now it's growing worse by the day.
Jason Roberts
The net neutrality legislation exists because municipal monopolies can't be broken up. Net neutrality is literally a fight against the corruption behind municipal monopolies.
Henry Peterson
I would hardly call Obama tyrannical. He only managed to pass one significant bill, obamacare and that didn't really change much and certainly didn't help our absimal healthcare system. Also how the fuck is supporting a multinational corporation socialism? Google is practically the definition of capitalism.
Thomas Ward
Abysmal? We had the best in the world. Obama and the socialists ruined it.
Elijah Thompson
Obamacare is a success. Millions of people gained coverage. Inb4 muh premiums If you are truly too poor for to afford higher premiums, then you should switch to Obamacare.
Ayden Green
Government intervention is needed where the free market is truncated, i.e. ISP geo monopolization. Of course this net neutrality legislation wouldn't be neessary if consumer protection agencies did their job in the first place and broke up these monopolies.
Dylan Garcia
Regarding the American health care system (before Obama) >Abismal? we had the best in the world
Dylan Carter
@61346795 is this bait?
Easton Price
You must be delusional if you actually think we had good health insurance before obamacare (not to say we have good insurance now). We have an insane amount of people who are uninsured (around 13% of the population before obamacare around 9% after) and many insured people are underinsured (as in their insurance doesn't actually cover the care they need or their copays are ridiculously high). Health care is obscenely expensive and it prevents small businesses from hiring enough workers because they have to pay out the ass for insurance. Access to medical care is a human right (seeing as life is one of the central rights recognized by the declaration of independence) and everyone should be fully covered.
Henry Hall
Coverage means nothing when that's all you pay for. I make a decent living, but because of Obamacare, I pay $400 a month for coverage and I have to pay for shit I don't need such as women's health shit.
It was perfect before...all you had to do was work and you could afford insurance and be able to see a doctor and the doctors gave a damn. But with the individual mandate driving prices up, I can't wait for Obamacare to be repealed in full.
Brayden Evans
I don't think you understand what net neutrality does. It gives the FCC the legal framework to punish ISPs for throttling some sites over others. It doesn't magically let the government censor sites they want to, especially since the first amendment still applies.
Gavin Garcia
Tell me where in the declaration it says that the government needs to be involved in healthcare?
Oh it dropped the uninsured rate...good because Obama the Tyrant made it illegal to not have insurance so big surprise.
Seriously, before the only people who could not get insurance were those who refused to work. Now even the middle class can't afford insurance but the lazy can on the government dime.
Jose Martinez
Why shouldn't they throttle traffic in favor of others? Not all data should be considered equal. Some people use the internet for important things you know, rather than looking at anime traps.
Cooper Perez
the main problem here is local monopolies which are created by GOVERNMENT in the first place
leftists are fucking retarded
what will destroy these corrupt isps IS a free market
Matthew Martinez
Millions of working people paid their penalties for not being able to afford insurance. Obamacare was a fucking disaster.
Cooper Sullivan
>Abysmal? We had the best in the world
Haha, sure you do.
Samuel Rogers
>Supporting google is supporting socialism. fucking THIS
FUCK JEWGLE
Landon Brown
>Regarding the American health care system before the government took over the healthcare market in the 70s it was the CHEAPEST IN THE FUCKING WORLD\
Anti free market retards dont understand this
Camden Butler
Oh boy, ancap shills get tired of trolling Sup Forums and decide to come here instead.
Michael Fisher
Oh no, someone used a service but couldn't afford it. Shouldn't have used it.
Lincoln Mitchell
High medical prices
you can thank government for that
healthcare was cheaper when it was mostly free market in the 50s and 60s
Thomas King
Why people are bitching about Net Neutrality and glorifying corporations ""protecting"" it while same companies enforcing web drm? How does that work for muh freedum fighters?
Carter Howard
Sadly Regan did make it so hospitals accepting medicare had to take any patient regardless of their ability to pay. Before then, you could be turned away. This started things off. Then Clintoncare, then Obamacare.
Cameron Taylor
>Oh boy, ancap shills get tired of trolling Sup Forums and decide to come here instead. why are you angry at facts?
I'm not an ancap but I strongly support the free market.
Explain how we're wrong. Why do you want to be poor and enslaved? I bet you support central banks.
>People shouldn't get to live if they can't afford what I can. >But abortion should be illegal because that ends a life. Some great Republican logic you got there Sup Forums. Next you're going to call me a communist and imply that I'm a cuckold right?
Jackson Collins
dude like 90% of Sup Forums supports abortion
how retarded are you?
Ethan Watson
Everything was cheaper in the 50s and 60s because this thing called inflation happened. Also people could afford things then because we were in the middle of an economic boom.
Kayden Brown
You are ancap, and a delusional faggot.
You got tired of shaking hands with conservatives and republicans, so you decided to just bypass the state and shake hands with the devil himself. You want to turn a blind eye to centuries of globalism destroying the planet and let these greedy fucking jews run the whole damn operation.
Lucas Parker
There are two types of people who don't get health insurance: Poor people and rich people. It's cheaper to get Obamacare than to pay the tax if you're poor. If you're rich, you can't get Obamacare but at least you're still rich.
Josiah Hill
Do you support Net Neutrality Sup Forums?
Julian Carter
Nobody said that, dumbass. Libtards putting words in people's mouths again.
Ryder Green
Yes.
Owen Butler
Doesn't work as well as you think. Letting 10 companies each run their own cables to every street in the city results in a lot of redundant infrastructure investments and ugly cables everywhere. If each company is only getting 1/10 of the customers it would have got if it were a monopoly, the companies have to raise the prices or go out of business. Likely what will happen is that less competitive companies drop out one by one and we are back to only 2 ISPs.
Josiah James
>Oh no, someone used a service but couldn't afford it. Shouldn't have used it.
Nobody told him the price, they took him in care, then the bill came out later.
Michael Gonzalez
Of course.
Henry Gray
Net neutrality violates the freedom of speech; specifically the freedom of ISPs to control speech on their own property. Before the election the ISPs were preparing lawsuits that would have removed the regulations anyways. Trump is just saving the government a costly court fight.
Ethan Thompson
Who is this 'Sup Forums'
Parker Evans
Don't you think it's just disgusting that we allow people to die or go into poverty because they don't have enough pieces of paper that society says are worth something. They have been brainwashed by Sup Forums. Also a lot of the people who are against DRM aren't the same as the ones against nn. DRM is too complicated for Sup Forums to understand. We don't have a free market in the US we have a handful of megacorps who have bribed local governments into making themselves the only ISPs. Maybe we could allow multiple companies to use the same wiring seeing as those wires were built with public funds.
Colton Gray
>Why shouldn't they throttle traffic in favor of others?
Because you pay for a set bandwidth, not the data.
Aiden Edwards
>Everything was cheaper in the 50s and 60s because this thing called inflation happened. BULL FUCKING SHIT Healthcare is the one thing that FAR FAR outpacing inflation. All thanks to government regulations giving special powers to health insurance and drug companies.
We need a free market to dramatically lower prices and increase quality.
>You are ancap, and a delusional faggot. wrong lol I just support limited government and a mostly free market.
>You want to turn a blind eye to centuries of globalism destroying the planet and let these greedy fucking jews run the whole damn operation.
lol okay there moche it's not like jews have been fighting the free market for fucking centuries it's not like jews control and support central banks or anything lol
brainwashed anti-free market morons
Robert Turner
How could they possible organize the billions of websites into packages?
Matthew Cox
>Maybe we could allow multiple companies to use the same wiring seeing as those wires were built with public funds. THIS
>We need a free market to dramatically lower prices and increase quality. Then bring back the free market where DSL providers could collocate equipment at the telco exchanges and use the pairs that were publicly subsidized to deliver data to their customers.
Dominic Reed
And here we go with the attempt to appeal to emotion. Won't work kid. I am like a Vulcan, I've shut off my emotions.
Doctors have to be paid. Medical care requires resources which requires money. Something bern-outs fail to grasp. That money had to come from somewhere. Either you pay out of pocket or the government pays.
Seriously, if you are worried about going into poverty paying medical bills, get a better job. Find a way to make more money and open up a savings account that is there for emergencies. Training hamsters for the olympic games isn't panning out obviously.
Kevin Russell
>being this retarded
Julian Ross
>Doctors have to be paid They don't have to be paid on a fee-for-service model. >Medical care requires resources which requires money Not true. It merely requires manufacturing capacity, which can be built under direction of workers who are getting "paid" in room and board. Even if true, nowhere near as much as is being paid solely for the purpose of giving Wall Street their entitled 3% growth. >Something bern-outs fail to grasp All partisans are terrorists. >That money had to come from somewhere Would you rather have (((banks))) generating money without bound, or would you rather have a government with a constitutional right to regulate the value of moeny through spending it into existence and taxing it out of existence? >Seriously, if you are worried about going into poverty paying medical bills, get a better job Yet, other countries don't have this problem. Why are you a psychopath and why shouldn't you be killed?
Chase Moore
A free-market doesn't mean lower prices or more competition. Study a little economics 101. Free-market means monopoly, which shuts down markets and prevents entry by creating artificial barriers.
And Jewish families absolutely want a free-market because it gives them complete control over it. You need to get the fuck off this fantasy you have where the poor and middle classes have enough capital to change anything. There's no freedom for them you stupid fuck. Freedom in ancapistan only exists for the elite old money shareholders who sit at the top of the food chain and write all the policies.
Keep shilling you delusional ancap ayn randian piece of shit.
Grayson Lewis
All partisans are terrorists. Why shouldn't you be in Gitmo right now?
Christian Sanders
>NN canned and Sup Forums gets shutdown >Sup Forums will blame the joos for destroying NN and will act like they always supported it
Blake Sullivan
Sup Forums is retarded, this is known
Charles Barnes
free market fag here
you need to focus on the fact that the government is SOLELY responsible for skyrocketing medical prices and that medical care would be far cheaper in a free market
pic related
Kevin Brooks
yeah no. did you forget every other more socialist, government controlled healthcare country has better and "cheaper" healthcare than us?
Anthony Baker
The point is, it wasn't legal and it was stopped before the net neutrality garbage laws. The tiered shit was tried and stopped; in fact, the 1st amendment was used to argue against it. In fucking FACT, Verizon vs FCC in 2010. Go look it up. That case is to prevent internet providers from pulling this bullshit.
People forget there are laws that prevent this shit, net neutrality or not. We were all perfectly fucking fine prior to net neutrality. Now the top telecomm companies can do as they please - same with social media sites with blocking people from being seen by others, banning accounts, etc. Net neutrality is nice on paper, but its being abused right now.
tl;dr - shit was fine prior to net neutrality, it will be fine once it is repealed.
