Why are C and C++ dying?

why are C and C++ dying?

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cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-93/product_id-19116/Oracle-JDK.html
jetbrains.com/research/devecosystem-2017/
blog.sourced.tech/post/language_migrations/
intellij-rust.github.io/
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All languages are dying compared to javascript.

How were people using Rust before it existed?

max performance and speed arent a large concern in most cases anymore because everyone has 4 cores and 8gb of ram

They're not dying as much as they aren't growing as fast as other languages. You really don't need the performance of C for a lot of applications, so people go with languages that are easier for one reason or another. One of the main downsides of C is that you have dependencies on native libraries, while languages that target the JVM really only need to be compiled once.

how can small white dick even compete with superior black PYTHON dick?

>this is fake news
>try making any serious reliable system in java or python
>pro tip you can't

I think it is more that more enterprisey projects are moving to github. These are relative numbers, not absolute.

time travel mostly

I just paid for a masturbation-experience-enhancing piece of technology through my bank's web portal and it worked. They run on Java. Your argument is therefore invalid.

>>try making any serious reliable system in java or python
>implying trillions of dollars are not already running on Java

kek

The majority of software created at this point is in mobile and web applications. The majority of developers don't care about, don't need to, or simply aren't competent to write "lower level" software. Just like electrical engineering, at this point, software development for most people is just putting legos together. That is the expanding market, the main demographic drawn to it, and where the infrastructure is being most heavily developed.

On another note, even though I mainly write in C and C++, I do occasionally write in Haskell, and have come to think functional languages are likely the future of high performance code. Unless imperative language compilers have some sort of AI driven ability to infer context and intent, optimization capacity is limited to a much lower threshold. Declarative languages by design express what must be done, not how. A sufficiently advanced specialized intelligence could probably devise a series of state changes much better, and faster, than a human programmer, and use more efficient constructs than an imperative programming language's facilities provide any real access to. Especially at the pace at which most commercial software is generally developed.

We'll see.

Because Rust > C

>Java
>C#
>Python
The holy trinity.

stfu and learn java and python for increased job security

If you put this in your resume, no one will hire you because they'll think you're a memester.

python is obviously for gluing shit together and smaller things

but java should not be underestimated, it has the same C based syntax and now does pretty much C++ shit but with a better standard library

CS pajeets

but Java is already my main language and I write Python scripts to automate stuff from time to time

I've read Head first Java, where to I go from here?

I want to immigrante to Australia one day and become a professional programmer

>and have come to think functional languages are likely the future of high performance code
just lol

>try making any serious reliable system in java
cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-93/product_id-19116/Oracle-JDK.html
wew lad

>muh apps

>why are C and C++ dying

When anyone can be a Koder, no one can be a programmer

Because the whole "hurr let's make coding more accessable and teach da kids" (aka let's making programmers a commodity so we can pay them less) has made it so retards who can't understand C are now coding

>t.pajeet

FRESH NEW DATA INCOMING
jetbrains.com/research/devecosystem-2017/

> 9% don't use an IDE
What the fuck do they program on?

the answer is literally below that entry

JUST IN: C# PROGRAMMERS CONFIRMED FOR BEING Sup Forums BABBIES

>the fun languages are all growing
yay

Not necessary anymore for a lot of use cases. Can make mobile, native, and web apps all in JavaScript.

>65% javascript
world is doomed

>Python increasing

For what purpose?

There was a recent study (from 2013 or so) stating that there's over TRILLION dollars invested into C++ and C codebases by Fortune 1000 companies.
C++/C ain't going anywhere. If you know them, you'll have a good paying job FOREVER.
Out of all these langs, I'd probably pick Swift as the one to learn. It's backed by huge companies (Apple and IBM) and jobs are in high demand for it. Should be a good extension of your C++ skillset.

well that's ugly

>chart contains matlab
>no javascript

AHAHAHAHAHA. all of the posts made in this thread have been made irrelevant. this graph does not accurately represent reality (figured out thanks to me) and thus the discussion builds on false data

go back to shilling your favorite cpu vendor

a trillion dollars in SV is like $30 and a hot dog
C++/C is dead

I just use notepad++. MSYS2 for gcc etc.

I don't really like IDEs. They're slow and often get in the way more than they simplify. Though I also don't work on large projects with other people.

>We did not include Javascript because …
>The first reason is that 40% of Github users we analyzed had JS in their profiles, and the proposed transition model becomes useless. The second is, citing Erik, “(a) if you are doing it on the frontend, you are kind of stuck with it anyway, so there’s no moving involved (except if you do crazy stuff like transpiling, but that’s really not super common) (b) everyone refers to Javascript on the backend as ‘Node’”. Our data retrieval pipeline could not distinguish regular JS from Node and thus we had to exclude it completely.

everyone knows that JS is very popular. you tune your autism down a bit

says a guy who doesn't even own his house.
kek. stay mad pajeet.

don't you have more froggy cakes to bake on reddit jacob?

Java doesn't have a better standard library. Scanner in and buffer is a nightmare to the simplicity of cin/out. Also no overriding so comparing different variable types is brutal and dealing with strings in Java is shit. That being said there's no point to c# when Java and c++ exists

You just haven't used a good IDE, then.

Brainlets.

How is this graph even calculated? No way was R used *more* over ten years ago than it is now.

>the simplicity of cin/out
If you're talking about iostreams, on what fucking planet do you live on where iostreams are "simple"?

They're not dying; they're just becoming less relevant. C and C++ are still major choices for embedded programming and high performance applications. But because hardware has improved greatly, and we're seeing more platforms than just the desktop, other languages are seeing greater utility. You'll note one of the larger growing languages on that chart is Java. Well, Android applications pretty much require Java, and mobile is becoming a bigger and more relevant platform.

Functional programming has been the future for the past 60 years.

Program speed is inversely proportional to the amount of transistors on a CPU, and it's been getting progressively worse over the last 30 years.

That's because nobody gives a shit about optimization.
You can't optimize javascript that runs miles and miles above the CPU in an uncountably infinite amount of abstraction layers over the operating system hosting your web browser.

blog.sourced.tech/post/language_migrations/
according to this R users are migrating to Python hard

I remember learning Perl back at the very start of this chart. I don't think I ever used it once for anything.

All of the Microcucks use C# or whatever.

>migrating to a language that is for all intents and purposes slower at doing exactly what you were probably using it for

I don't get this. I've used R, and I've used Python with the pandas and numpy libraries. R is noticeably faster. The only use you get out of Python is that it's easier for modern day newbies because they all learn Python.

I like the numpy library and all for other uses, but when it comes to large-scale data analysis or even just database manipulation, R is a lot nicer for it.

Java is like a really shit version of Ada. It has a good standard library, but it's missing useful features like range type checks, overflow checks, custom modular types, array slicing and static verification. Versions of Ada targeting the JVM seem like they would just be a better version of Java.

The point is not the trillion dollars, it's the fact that the world runs on C/C++. If you want to replace it it's going to cost AT LEAST 10 times as much as it cost to develop it.

brainlet detected.

I work in the meme "data science" field and pretty much anyone with any real credentials (i.e. actual degree in statistics) prefers R.
However, where I work, Python is probably used more frequently only because more often than not it has better APIs etc. for retrieving data.

>I just use notepad++. MSYS2 for gcc etc.
>I don't really like IDEs. They're slow and often get in the way more than they simplify.

Ah yes, the classic mid-2000s C++ programmer

Why does no one ever use lisp?

DELID

I really don't get the appeal of lisp, personally. What makes it better than haskell or C?

On the contrary, there is no other way to describe your point of view than ignorant.

Pic related is considered the definitive reference on the subject and it's almost 700 fucking pages long.

700 pages. Of iostreams. What the fuck. My copy of third edition Effective C++ is half that.

C++ iostreams are fucking garbage.
C's stdio is infinitely better than them in every conceivable aspect.

This

the chart is probably something totally different and some Sup Forums user has added fake labels.

it looks like the perfect thing in simple examples, but then it gets messy and much less readable than more verbose languages when you try to make something real. and then when you add type annotations (which I refuse to work without except for small utility scripts) it gets even worse.
so writing your own interpreter and implementing some trivial shit is in it is very fun. but this is where it ends for me

I'm the OP and here's the link to the source

The fucking braces. I swear to god that shit looks disgusting and confusing. I prefer Lua, it's pretty much lisp minus braces plus some sugar on top, it's fucking beautiful.

This. While there are nice features in C++, iostreams aren't one of them. Stdio is way fucking better.

/thread

I wonder why rust didnt make the cut out of "others" is it because jetbrains dont have any rust products yet?

scripting,
machine learning,
small-scale web apps

Lisp is the most beautiful programming language of all - both syntactically and mathematically.

I really don't see the point of graphs like these, this "popularity" doesn't even seem valid, you have to consider the cruft, look at how many projects in these higher level languages are just copy-pasted examples or "my first commit!!!" type thing, how many are forks of a project that have no meaningful commits (my personal fork of X but with a CoC). This whole thing seems as irrelevant as comparing lines of code across project and/or languages, the metric is meaningless.

What languages are being used where and for what project, how often are they used, are they useful in that field?

An observed influx of "programmers" for language X doesn't mean anything either when considering what I said above, there may be a gorillion new JavaScript programmers a year but how many of them stay in the industry, either professionally or otherwise, how many of them will even continue using the language they started on. I learned shell scripting as my first language for a platform that doesn't even exist anymore and later learned Python, I use neither today and most of my projects in them were shit, I've since moved on to other languages and the things I make with them are much more valuable to people who aren't just me.

because they're used in high performance game engines.

> swift
> 2000

wut

I don't think so. They don't have official Elixir or Haskell products either. As for Rust, I'm fairly sure they're already considering acquiring this intellij-rust.github.io/ and making a Rust IDE because it seems like they're able to pump them IDEs out like it's nothing nowadays. It's probably not as popular as you would like to believe yet.

>not working on revolutionary swift iphone apps from your comfy world trade center office in 2000

Pajeet cannot into efficient languages.

This logic is why your web browsers need 2GiB of ram to run

>Skin walkers are actually LISP programmers
I wouldn't worry about it.

Productivity.

Companies need code done fast even if performance take a hit.

It's ignorant to equate convenience and usability with stupidity.

okay, apparently the two main contributors of intellij-rust.github.io/ are actually JetBrains employees

this logic is why the web platform is getting so powerful so fast
inb4 you complain about some shitty website running poorly on your 2005 thinkpad

They're becoming elite stuff.
As they are not very good at avoiding shit like buffer overruns, "safer" languages like java are getting the preference in places where the performance is not as needed.

But you always will need an actually fast and low level language to write OSes and the interpreters that run the shitty pleb languages and java ain't gonna do it.

100% agree with this.

If you look at the Land of Lisp book there are some simple game implementations, but the second you try to implement something more complex you realise his implementations don't scale out complexity-wise.

>where to I go from here?
>I want to immigrante to Australia one day
somewhere else

fuck off, we're full

>inb4 you complain about some shitty website running poorly on your 2005 thinkpad
according to chromium inspector, gmail takes 10 seconds to stop loading shit and facebook takes 5 seconds. Outlook looks like it took about 25 seconds. I have a Core i7 2600k; this is not acceptable.

outlook apparently downloaded 2.5MB of content. How fuck fuck did they even manage that?

...

really makes you think

Because it's annoying tedious bullshit superseded by Rust and D

D isn't even on the chart

This. C will probably stick around but C/C++ is going to die off. Hopefully soon.

>what are unity devs

Homoiconicity is a misfeature. It's incredibly flexible, but that means that developers are free to crawl up their own asshole with their own abstractions that nobody else knows how to use and don't scale. That's also why there are a billion slightly incompatible Lisp and Scheme implementations - when anybody can create a compiler, anybody does.

19 year olds who make awful fucking games.

oh yeah, I completely forgot about that bunch

In the future, Go will be very big

screencap this

Because originally C... was used for low level stuff AND also high level stuff, because there weren't many decent high level languages with big ecosystems. Now that there are many decent high level languages with big ecosystems, C... is used for what it's especially good for, which is high performance low level stuff.
It's also become easier than ever to write non-performance critical stuff in a high level language and just write the performance critical stuff in C.

But people in the future will use Rust or Go instead of C because writing C code sucks when you actually know any other modern language

P Y T H O N
Y
T
H
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What matters the real world is results. Using an efficient language doesn't necessarily make you more productive.