X86 emulation on ARM

How has qemu done it for so long without issue?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=niNrVHD5rQg
newsroom.intel.com/editorials/x86-approaching-40-still-going-strong/
techpowerup.com/235092/intel-says-amd-epyc-processors-glued-together-in-official-slide-deck
youtube.com/watch?v=v7qTHbOEiDY
theverge.com/2016/5/19/11711714/chromebooks-outsold-macs-us-idc-figures
knowledge.insead.edu/strategy/who-killed-nokia-nokia-did-4268
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

>intel
>suing microsoft
>right when AMD is about to EAT through their key markets
?????

I think the issue in question is software vs hardware emulation, no?

No, it's still software. Intel is just doing pic related.

To be fair it's not like anyone would bother with ARM in servers anyway, intel is overreacting as usual.

A 16 core x86 processors is also 16X as powerful as a 16 core ARM processor with a TDP of 1,000 watts. This is not including the performance penalty you get for emulating x86 code.

Intel probably doesn't want to pick a fight with Microsoft right now

>Completely ignoring ARM's strengths
>Focusing on a completely ridiculous scenario that nobody actually tries to do

You're the reason x86 will continue to lose marketshare to ARM.

They kinda deserve it

RISC-V WHEN

ARM processors are really cheap, like I don't understand how they produce and sell micro quad-core processors that make their way into $30 raspberry pi's and smartphones.

I could definitely see ARM competing in the desktop market

Good. I will hold onto my computer until Intel finally dies and paves the way for ARM and RISC-V.

>>Completely ignoring ARM's strengths
Like what? Their IPC is dogshit and performance-per-watt is abhorrent.

>>Focusing on a completely ridiculous scenario that nobody actually tries to do
If it's not good enough for server then it's not good enough for laptops or tablets.

40 year old patents?

Yeeee.

>Completely ignoring ARM's strengths
These are?

They will dominate the low end processor.

>no legit x86
>inb4 "This software was intended to be running 32-bit mode, which is no longer supported on your machine. We are sorry for the inconvenience. Ask your software vendor for an AMD64 64-bit version of the program."
>Intel becomes that old shit that not much works on anymore because people write amd cpu specific optimization

youtube.com/watch?v=niNrVHD5rQg
>Better battery life
>Ultra-fast Gigabit LTE
>Cheaper

I asked for ISA advantages. Anyone can make SoC.

ARM's biggest shortfall for use as a desktop CPU is lack of software support.
I mean, it would probably work for linux, where you're compiling from source half the time anyways, but Windows would look pretty barren.

Which patent prevents x86 emulation? Pentium Pro aka i686 was released more than 20 years ago.

That's where the x86 emulation and UWP come into play

...

Insane power efficiency. That's basically it, and it was an accidental attribute antway. They found that out when they accidentally left power disconnected from the first prototype- it was running on power leakage from the board.

this

>Like what?
Not him but the advantage in ARM is the robust ecosystem for SoC's and they do not demonstrate the same performance as Intel offers. It will be interesting what interesting form factors this allows for hardware and the relative performance for apps on the new ARM platform.

UWP?

So it's legal to emulate generic x86 binary with no SSE now.

ARM power efficiency isn't real. x86 is more power efficient than ARM (see servers). At best ARM has half the performance-per-watt of x86.

The only reason we use ARM on mobile devices is because they're cheap. Why get a $300+ core-m7 when qualcum can shit out a 32 core SoC for a nickle?

No, reference ARM cores are very efficient at

Universal Windows Platform apps that work on x86, x64 and ARM natively. (basically windows store apps i think but not sure)

ARM isn't inherently power efficient, this is a terrible fallacy. ARM designs simply are better suited to lower power envelopes, and theres a very big differences.
No ARM SoC comes close to the perf/watt of a Xeon/EPYC server part. The data center is where the most efficient hardware exists, not in phones.

qemu doesn't make intel lose money

You can't according to intel: newsroom.intel.com/editorials/x86-approaching-40-still-going-strong/
>Intel's blog post offers a rundown of all the investments that the company has made in extending and improving the x86 instruction set, with features such as SSE, AVX, TSX transactional memory, and SGX secure enclaves acting as a demonstration of how the company has transformed this ancient instruction set into something cutting edge and forward-looking. But the second part of the post takes a more sour note: Intel notes that many of these developments are patented and that it has a history of using patents to protect its x86 innovations AMD, Cyrix, VIA, and Transmeta are all named as victims of this defence.

>No, reference ARM cores are very efficient at

AMD is the sole survivor ;_;

pls soon. I can't handle all this jewing

As if jewtel patents don't expire in murrica, huh. There should be generic versions of Pentium II like open source SuperH.

Ok, so I guess that was mostly the original ARM processor I was thinking about. Anyway, ARM cores are still useful for low power applications and mobile, the high end stuff tries to do too much.

You must be out of your mind. QEMU is free software! That means that it is much more dangerous than any Microsoft software, and even more so because Microsoft OSes mostly run on x86 anyway.

Zen already hits 10W per core at 3.6Ghz.

Super thin laptops with smartphone-like usability and cellular connectivity as well as long battery life when??

That's a glorified tablet.

>smartphone-like usability
You mean toy operating systems?

This will mostly benefit their surface brand (cheaper Surface pro?) and maybe the upcoming surface "phone"

>Surface
I can get my anus it will use APUs.

I wouldn't expect anything withing price range and performance of either x86 or ARM for at least next 2-3 years.

>intellectual property rights

But an ISA is a physical, real thing. It has to be built, physically built, into and as a function of the hardware.

Transmeta case was software.

Modern AMR has IPC right up ther with intel, and can run on the static electricity of yer mom rubbing her thighs together

>Modern AMR has IPC right up ther with intel
Hoo boy no.
>and can run on the static electricity of yer mom rubbing her thighs together
Delivering below-Atom tier performance?
Lmao, cuckcomm.

I really don't get what's with today's kids and their unconditioned bias towards ARM.
I might sound biased myself, but there msut be a reason as to why most server/mission critical equipment/supercomputers run on x86 instead.
ARM to me is like the OOP of the processor industry: overestimated while not techincally superior.

>there will never be a GPD Win 2

>Atom
Ded
>Xeon
>techpowerup.com/235092/intel-says-amd-epyc-processors-glued-together-in-official-slide-deck
worldwide criticism

Because "mobile is the future" duh youtube.com/watch?v=v7qTHbOEiDY

What the...

ARM is a closed source proprietary abomination when compared to x86.
x86 is the only platform that allows me the freedom to choose which parts I want, which OS I want and so on; the only things regrettable about x86 might be the closed BIOS, ME and the like.
Still, that does not even remotely compare to the clusterfucked environment that the ARM industry is. There is no simple way to assemble an ARM board and run an OS; not only that, but the few exception that sort of try to bring ARM to the desktop (like Raspberry Pi), REQUIRE some sort of higher level proprietary blob to run; blob which is often more intrusive than an x86 BIOS or ME will ever be. Not to mention the complete inadequacy to perform simple everyday desktop tasks, since a Raspberry Pi 3 barely compares to a mid-2000 x86 PC. (low end)
ARM is good for phones because its closed, and the competition will have to build everything from scratch too; they ruled out the possibility of an "IBM-competition" from the beginning. Smart move cunts.

Then you are not the target. The point here is the mobile and light stuff. ARM's power consumption is greatly desirable for the portable devices and almost 75% the mobile devices run ARM processor. Adding to that, the PC sales are declining more than ever before.

Zen can totally compete with ARM.

>ARM's power consumption is greatly desirable for the portable devices
But that, as I said, is not the main reason for the adoption of an evidently close-minded architecture to the mobile world.
I'll like ARM when I'll be able to boot my phone/tablet/ARM device into another OS with the same ease as I can an x86 PC thanks.
You people criticise Apple for being a closed minded company, yet you praise ARM, which is destroying our OS choice freedom. There will be days in the future, if ARM prevails, that getting anything to work on anything else will be as hard as porting Libre/Coreboot

>There will be days in the future, if ARM prevails,
But ARM will just have the monopole on the low-end processors. They will never be at Intel or AMD level for the high end stufff. ARM will not be able to compete against Intel in the space where there is a demand for high performance like desktops and servers.

Chromebook-tier shit is yet to become popular.

theverge.com/2016/5/19/11711714/chromebooks-outsold-macs-us-idc-figures

>shit outsold shit
Who cares.

because QEMU has no money

This was such a shame. Tons of neat cool products used those Atom chips, and we'll not see a refresh any time soo0n.

It can go to standby very efficiently and you can design your custom SoC. This is good for mobile devices. That's about it.

As soon as you are connected to the grid and need 24/7 performance it's shit in all metrics like single core performance, multicore performance, performance per watt.

Intel was basically suing transmeta until they ran out of money. After that Intel settled by buying their patents for a few hundred million dollars and demanding they exit the CPU business.

So intel and ms will die together. Good riddance for greedy scums they are.

>MS
>die

They even destroyed nokia. Got some great talent for epic clusterfuck. Also have zero clue what to do in post desktop era. Cloud can't save them as the competition is heavy and patent trolling isn't enough at nasdaq.

>destroyed Nokia
Wot? Nokia is alive and kicking ass.

Nokia destroyed itself. They were DOA as soon as Smatphone became a thing. You are legit retarded

What do you mean by
>smartphone
?
Nokia produced smartphones since fucking forever.

knowledge.insead.edu/strategy/who-killed-nokia-nokia-did-4268
and it was fukin failure.

Good thing this beaut is coming soon, with upgradable cpu and ram

Intel will never sue and *WIN* and this is all a psyop to try to stop companies from emulating.

Transmeta did it without licensing the x86 architecture. Cyrix did it, AMD did it, and so on. It's perfectly legal, this is just Intel desperately shilling to try to scare users and companies.

no intel x86 machine can run in the microwatt market segment

for every server ten thousand or more of these little CPUs are produced

Microsoft want to cut Intel out, they will be forced to license probably $20 intel tax on each device.

They won't, suddenly Windows 10 and all gayms will run like shit on intel if they tried to pull this crap.

>AMD did it
Crosslicensing with x64

now think on a I/O bound server (which are most serving web pages) and see the value proposition

Emulation is legal so I think Qualcomm and Microsoft can win this eventually. I don't know how dedicated they are to winning it though

I remember back when Macs ran PowerPC, you could buy software from Microsoft that emulated x86 Windows inside the PowerPC Macs. It was called Virtual PC or some shit like that.

It was really slow, a 2.5 ghz G5 could emulate a p2 at 266 mhz.

You can make a Pentium (i586) compatible chip I believe. Stuff newer than that may have active patents

Not really. We have Epyc which includes 8 channels of DDR4 RAM + 128 PCI-E lanes.

What does ARM have to compete against that?

Precisely dick.
In all honestly Intel also can't compete against EPYC everywhere but 4S+, where there's no EPYC.

>>right when AMD is about to EAT through their key markets
How long have you guys been saying this now?

Since March I guess?

since we started getting ryzen stuff leaked
ryzen is just an absolute godsend to amd. completely shits all over the competition

>with upgradable cpu and ram
It needs that, since the specs are going to be 5 years out of date at launch.

And Epyc.

should've specified Zen in general, my bad

ARM is RISC, it will never outperform x86 computationally.

It literally wasn't, Symbian dominated the shit out of the market until 2010

AMD had their own x86 products well before AMD64 and the Athlon 64

>being this retarded
None of that has anything to do with generic x86 binaries. See the part about no SSE.

THIS
PLEEEEEASE