>btrfs, which was supposed to be Linux's next generation COW filesystem - Linux's answer to zfs. Unfortunately, too much code was written too quickly without focusing on getting the core design correct first, and now it has too many design mistakes baked into the on disk format and an enormous, messy codebase - bigger that xfs. It's taken far too long to stabilize as well - poisoning the well for future filesystems because too many people were burned on btrfs, repeatedly (e.g. Fedora's tried to switch to btrfs multiple times and had to hold off at the last minute, and server vendors who years ago hoped to one day roll out btrfs are now quietly migrating to xfs instead).
What the fuck are they going to use then? ZFS and btrfs are both actively developed by Oracle. >inb4 Lennart creates a new filesystem that's only useable through systemd wrappers around an unstable moving-target internal API
Blake Williams
Red Hat is going back to xfs.
There is another GPL-licensed upcoming file system called bcachefs that does most of what ZFS does.
Evan Phillips
systemdfs incoming
Brandon Wood
what's wrong with ext4?
Kevin Lee
Can't do stuff like pooled storage or RAID-Z nor can it do snapshots.
Nicholas Edwards
Why can't you just rsync copies of your database on a nightly basis?
Brody Nguyen
Nobody's putting a gun to your head and making you stop use ext4.
So is pretty much every other file system introduced after 2010.
Besides, it has the same case-insensitive-by-default problem as with HFS (search for Linus' rant about this), and skimps on checksumming and data integrity features (makes sense since Apple doesn't make servers).
Christian Hughes
im impressed you had the time to create that shitty image while having a gay gangbang applefaggot
Owen Cruz
>rsyncing live files Kek, only works if the database file is append-only. I know of only one database where that would work.
Gavin Carter
>So is pretty much every other file system introduced after 2010. All of them are bolted on and not designed from the ground up.
There's a bunch of flash-optimized databases around too.
William Bailey
Why does literally everyone act like ZFS doesn't exist, people seriously waste their time trying to rewrite it and fail time and time again, just adopt ZFS and improve it, don't waste time corrupting people's data when the endgoal is to have something at best on par but still unique (bad because it causes unnecessary tool and documentation fragmentation).
Someone wrote a read-only port for Windows, with that in mind no OS vendor has any excuse, it should run on any *nix system without problems and even be portable to other non Unix-like systems.
William Howard
it being owned by oracle now is reason enough to act like it was never invented
Justin Kelly
>All of them are bolted on and not designed from the ground up.
Microsoft ReFS is a completely new design.
bcachefs is a completely new design.
F2FS, which was made by Samsung and used by most new Android phones, is a completely new design specifically designed for consumer device flash storage usage scenario and that scenario only.
Nolan Cooper
bcachefs the only FOSS alternative left for a next gen filesystem that isn't backed by Oracle.
I seriously would consider ZFS if it wasn't for Oracle.
Too bad the guy is basically living off his savings account trying to do this.
He could be talking about rsync'ing dumbs, you know?
I know a file system dev with a lot of free time, we should make a change.org petition to give him Internet access
Dominic Bennett
Btrfs is developed by Oracle too.
Sure, the code is GPL, but that doesn't protect you from Oracle's patent lawsuits.
Isaac Nguyen
muh licences lad
Caleb King
It probably has something to do with Sun inventing a new license for it basically just to piss everyone off and fuck Linux over so it'll never be accepted into the kernel. Running through FUSE has performance implications, maybe legal ones too since Oracle are a bunch of assholes.
Adrian Gutierrez
Btrfs is crappy, but NSA/RedHat - or, as I recently started to called it, NSA + RedHat - is the second-to-last corporation on the fucking earth whose judgement on the code quality I'd actually trust. The last being Microsoft.
Leo Mitchell
What exactly is wrong with btrfs? I've been using it for some time now and nothings gone wrong.
Caleb Parker
Design by commie Vs. Not designed at all
Cooper Adams
raid 5/6
Luis Cruz
Software RAID features are a complete nightmare and little progress has been made since 2009.
Michael Martinez
Wow I sure do love software patents, they just DRIVE innovation and don't exist to completely fuck up open source.
Jace Reyes
That might be fine for your wordpress blog, but if you're running an online business and you're making $1,000 per minute, you really don't want to lose 1440 minutes of transactions.
Unless a million and a half dollars worth of business is pocket change to you, in which case why are you on Sup Forums?
Nicholas Campbell
Should've funded nilfs2 while you had the chance.
Jeremiah Rivera
>discovered that bash globs can't into roman numerals properly >now this what a terrible day
Ethan Ortiz
btrfs is getting kicked out of the kernel when?
Zachary Moore
On the other hand, SUSE Linux Enterprise 12 is using Btrfs (+ XFS for /home) by default, but this stems mostly from snapshot support built into the package manager.
Colton Campbell
Red Hat was never interested in btrfs, they push XFS as their enterprise solution, only Linux distribution to really push btrfs is Suse.
There's been rumours that Red Hat is working on a new file system of their own, in turn spawned from them asking their customers about what features they would want to see in a fs.
Anyway, bcachefs looks promising, if it delivers it will be a huge improvement on btrfs.
Meanwhile ZFS is a dead end as it can never be mainlined due to the CDDL license.
Caleb Cox
Good riddance that piece of shit fs screwed me over both times I tried it.
Christian Rivera
>ZFS is ded
TOPEST KEK
zfs is the best filesystem now, it's free as in freedom and easily usable by the linux & bsd.
Isaac Jones
>I know a file system dev with a lot of free time, we should make a change.org petition to give him Internet access Fucking neo Sup Forums. How come no one (You)ed that comment yet?
Jordan Sullivan
Your joke wasn't funny.
Michael Campbell
>zfs is the best filesystem now, it's free as in freedom and easily usable by the linux & bsd.
ZFS can never be mainlined, which means it can never be part of the kernel, which means it can never be a default Linux filesystem.
As such it will never be anything but an outlier on Linux, and the Linux version even lags behind in features. It's a dead end.
bcachefs can be mainlined, and if nothing unforeseen happens (like development for some reason stops) it will be, it ticks every feature box of btrfs and ZFS, while being much less of a hog.
Jackson Williams
Cool, but you missed a few points.
>>zfs is the best filesystem now
>bcachefs What is vaporware?
Jayden Allen
Not one to defend red hat but as an xfs user I agree with this, both ext4 and btrfs had worse hardware usage due to randomly scattering data and cow. I'm glad to see xfs being developed more in the future.
Jose Fisher
It wasn't my joke, but I found it immensely funny.
>I like my girls like my file systems. >FAT and 16…
Connor Peterson
>zfs is the best filesystem now
Not for Linux
>What is vaporware?
People are running it right now, though not in production of course, you obviously have no clue what vaporware means.
Landon Morris
>Not for Linux Yep, it's not the best filesystem for Linux, it's the best available filesystem in the world so far.
>People are running it right now, though not in production of course, you obviously have no clue what vaporware means. Check it's status page almost none of the features you'd expect from a COW a filesystem is working right now. Stop shilling an unfinished product, that's exactly what happened to the btrfs and it turned out to be shit. Let him finish and start shilling after that.
Caleb Campbell
...
Robert Williams
Oh fuck, had to reread it after your comment. topkek.
Cooper Bennett
>Stop shilling an unfinished product, that's exactly what happened to the btrfs and it turned out to be shit. Let him finish and start shilling after that.
Don't be so pathetic, this is what I wrote:
>bcachefs can be mainlined, and if nothing unforeseen happens (like development for some reason stops) it will be, it ticks every feature box of btrfs and ZFS, while being much less of a hog.
Meanwhile you made bullshit claims about it being vaporware. And the whole reason OpenZFS was so intent on getting it onto Linux was because they know that if it is relegated to only FreeBSD and Solaris offsprings, it's prospects are fucked.
But even with all that effort it will always be a redheaded stepchild on Linux due to CDDL preventing it from being mainlined, and other compatible filesystems will be used in it's stead. Again for Linux, ZFS is a dead end.
Colton Perry
Red Hat never left XFS, they've been like the only consistent maintainer of the codebase for years. They've actually refactored the shit out of it and increased it's limits and they're working to bring newer features to it.
Dominic James
>not using OpenZFS bros...
Nathan Watson
>not using OpenZFS bros...
Connor Martin
btrfs is from Oracle, which is a major Red Hat competitor.
Red Hat likes to pull this kind of shit with competitors. Basically they only like things they make themselves: systemd instead of upstart/other init, pulseaudio, wayland instead of mir, etc.
Jaxson Rogers
>red hat has a problem with btrfs spotty support and development quality >systemD is fine
Brody Martin
This, bcachefs is awesome.
Brayden Russell
It is also the only FOSS file system whose encryption does not suck.
Leo Wilson
>ZFS can never be mainlined, which means it can never be part of the kernel FUSE still exists.
Liam Nguyen
>FUSE still exists.
FUSE is slow as fuck, why do you think OpenZFS spent a ton of effort to port it as a kernel module when you've been able to use it through FUSE for ages ?
Owen Rogers
>why do you think OpenZFS spent a ton of effort to port it as a kernel module when you've been able to use it through FUSE for ages ? Because they are tards?
Adam Carter
>Because they are tards?
Well ok, I don't have a snappy comeback for that. Well played user
Dylan Foster
> Unfortunately, too much code was written too quickly without focusing on getting the core design correct first, and now it has too many design mistakes > and an enormous, messy codebase But they didn't drop systemd.
Josiah Parker
Since this thread is kinda related
I want to use a big nig hard drive mostly as a secondary storage drive. Should I use ext4 or XFS?
Jack Morales
Fuck red hat First systemd and now this
Jackson Sanchez
I'd go with XFS, but if it's only for storage it really doesn't matter
Andrew Hill
>zfs is dead
OSX uses it
Xavier Roberts
Excuse my ignorance, but doesn't it use HFS+ and now APFS?
Juan Collins
>all these people who think oracle owns OpenZFS
>all these people who think zfs and OpenZFS are the same thing
Benjamin Walker
you're right Apple turned away from Zfs a couple of years ago.
All sun technologies are getting fucked over.
Nicholas Perry
Agree.
Thomas Murphy
Fucking oracle is everywhere.
Christopher Myers
>not using the filesystem of God
David Kelly
>thinking live file copies are anywhere near as good as snapshots >he's gonna wait a bunch of time every time he wants to make a restore point instead of using instant cow snapshots nigga please
