What is the point in making technology graduates study Math?

What is the point in making technology graduates study Math?

Other urls found in this thread:

painlessprogramming.blogspot.hr/?m=1
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formal_science
codeforces.com/problemset/problem/457/E
simonschreibt.de/gat/renderhell/
pbrt.org/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

What is a technology graduate?

Majoring in computer science, software engineering, IT, cybersecurity, etc...

calculators can do math better and faster than me
computers are just giant programmable calculators

why do we need to be mathmeticians again?

I don't know user, it's not like computers aren't dependent upon math to function. Nope, not at all.

How do you rotate an image by 43 degrees CCW?

Why not? They just give you a problem and you have a set of steps you use to solve it, it's not like it's hard :^)

Because all those fields except IT require you to know math in order to be a competent professional.

really they're not

im sure theres a library for that. it probably even literally works like this:

degrees.rotate(43)

So that they don't become ignorant faggots like OP

What if there is no library or you can't use any existing library because of the licensing of your project? Are you going to tell your boss you can't into basic college math?

1. To try and weed out brainlets
2. It's actually is useful and you will use some of it to solve certain problems you face.

Look how those libraries work and re-write them or just Google how to rotate

Can you imagine calling yourself a "software engineer" and not knowing basic trig?
Last I checked, that was the bare minimum to get an AA degree at even the most shit-tier of community colleges.

So you'll lose X hours looking for a solution instead of just remembering rotation matrices from your linear algebra course?
Sounds like a pretty expensive but unproductive employee. You'd be better off becoming a code monkey.

Use a formula. You don't need to be a Mathematician to use a formula.

Not true at all, there are numerous counter-examples of competent professionals who are shit at Math.

I've never had to prove a single theorem in my entire software engineering career, all the Math education I received in college just went straight into the trash. It was a complete waste of time.

>Use a formula. You don't need to be a Mathematician to use a formula.
Maybe, but you need a mathematical education to know that such formula exists.

Loaded example. I too can come up with a random example of computational application that requires literacy in a particular outside area of knowledge, like, say, geography.

>To try and weed out brainlets
Awesome, why not use literally any other area of knowledge then? Like, for example, geography?

Only because it's a loaded example. See

How do you make a program that reads in the user's complaints and spits out an ICD10 medical diagnosis? Should've gone to medical school kiddo!

Actually, you just need Google and Wikipedia.

Imagine being this retarded.

>I've never had to prove a single theorem in my entire software engineering career,
LOL FUCKING CODEMONKEY

Vectors and matrices (so linear algebra) are literally everywhere in software engineering, I chose an image rotation as an example because it's the easiest to explain and visualize.

Explain how math is used then you fucking brainlet

>software engineering is reading/writing code
Pleb.

They aren't. That's simply an outright lie. I've never had to deal with them, and I have been in this business for 12 years. You probably just suffer from confirmation bias because they're everywhere in your particular area, but they're far from being everywhere in general.

>he's actually this retarded and isn't pretending

i went into geospatial development so linear algebra ended up being pretty useful but i never do calculus or diff. equations. the point is as an academic you will never 100% know where your research will take you, you just have a general idea.

university is supposed to make you a well-rounded academic who is an expert in one topic but tacitly aware of other fields, if only to know whom to consult when presented with an area that is not their specialty.

if you want to just do the equivalent of a hundred online coding tutorials then go to a community college or trade school. but don't bitch when you hit the glass ceiling after 5 years because all you really learned was how to push the right buttons in the right order.

>can't explain because math is not a requirement for computers
t. brainlet

Draw a circle which touches all four corners of the image boundary. Convert the rectangular coordinates of the points to circular coordinates on the circle. Add a rotation angle to the theta coordinate at each point. Convert back to rectangular coordinates.

This can all be done with geometry every high school kid in the country is capable of.

>being retarded

Not an arguement

Nice grammar, retard.

>confuses grammar and spelling

I had no idea wendy's was this sexy

real wendy is a hambeast
stick to meme wendy

Orthography*

FUCK YOU

I was pretty sure it was to not only weed out the dummies but also prepare for careers in CompSci R&D.

Everything in this list but IT requires math extensively.

Computer science uses several subsets of mathematics like vector calculus, discrete math, etc. Contrary to popular knowledge, you're supposed to give proofs for your shit; you're not just a programmer.

Software engineering uses math/logic in the same way as described above.

Cybersecurity is all fucking math. Cryptography is math, you pleb.

If you're not using math, you're just a technician and those people contribute nothing to the advancement of technology.

learn programming here:
painlessprogramming.blogspot.hr/?m=1

Those are generally people who have shit jobs. All the interesting jobs like self-driving cars, machine learning etc. requires a shit ton of math.

...

>but IT
No.

Reminder

float Q_rsqrt( float number )
{
long i;
float x2, y;
const float threehalfs = 1.5F;

x2 = number * 0.5F;
y = number;
i = * ( long * ) &y; // evil floating point bit level hacking
i = 0x5f3759df - ( i >> 1 ); // what the fuck?
y = * ( float * ) &i;
y = y * ( threehalfs - ( x2 * y * y ) ); // 1st iteration
// y = y * ( threehalfs - ( x2 * y * y ) ); // 2nd iteration, this can be removed

return y;
}

I learned Newton's method in high school, I didn't need another 3 years learning abstract unusable shit in order to figure that out.

Dumb animuposter.

> spend years memorizing and practicing formulas
> aha i am now a proficient mathematician
> how do i fizzbuzz??
versus
> spend years programming and reading programming books and contributing to foss projects
> encounter math issue
> search engine/wikipedia/IRC

win

>criticizes grammar[sic]
>can't even string together a complete sentence

so you are able to program a calculator you useless piece of shit

Thats a brainlet level answer, it produces retarded spaghetti code, its a lot easier and cleaner if you just create a rotation matrix and multiply the position vector of every pixel by it. If you have access to the gpu, you can ultra easily just port it to gpu since its the same basic computation that's a lot faster on the gpu

Yeah, I cant fucking remember thise matrices either, and its a lot faster to just look them up on wikipedia, but you still need to know enough math to understand matrices, vectors and trigonometry to implement it.

Basically anyone in this thread trying to defend the notion that math is unnecesary is either a dirty pajeet or a sociology student or some other shit. If you want to do anything productive in life and not just meme about muh feminism or teach english in high school, you 100% need math

Math isnt about memoring formulas, its about being able to think in a logical and critical way. Holy shit the amount of retarded in this thread is astonishing, I havent even learned a multiplication table yet I do most math problems fine

>its about being able to think in a logical and critical way
Nah, you're thinking of philosophy, m8.

Math is a branch science which is a branch of philosophy

Math is neither science nor a branch of philosophy, you arseweed.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formal_science

Learn what math is and then maybe you'll actually be able to participate in this discussion.

>Formal sciences are language disciplines concerned with formal systems, such as logic, mathematics, statistics, theoretical computer science, information theory, game theory, systems theory, decision theory, and theoretical linguistics.
Why isn't praxeology in that list?

>no scientific method
>"c-can we be sciences t-too, user? p-pls!"
No, stop whining, dumb mathfag.

Because that sounds like a social science, like behavioral economics

let me guess, you only wrote shit office automation soft not 3d shaders, cv, and image processing.

>3d shaders, cv, and image processing
You can cherrypick math-intensive examples. That doesn't mean anything. See .

Face it, computing is used for other things too. You're not as special as you'd like to be.

>it's only computing if you're doing what I do
>that's how I know I'm superior

Mathematicans can do anything you learned in your cirriculum.

You can't do anything mathematicians can do.

That's why.

tl;dr learning a little math will make you at least above sub-brainlet.

I know it's bait but:
All programming problems are math problems.

A variable is a placeholder for a numerical location in memory. A string is a numerical array of numerical representations of characters. All functions are mathematical operations

If you don't have the pattern recognition, critical thinking skills or logic for some basic math classes then it probably isn't the field for you. There's a correlation between those who are good at math and programming. Alan Turing was a mathematician. I wonder why that was...

>we're so good so much better than u lol
I'd love to see you have a try at NLU without a linguistics background, smug idiot.

You're the kind of moron that inspired OP's image.

How do you think assembly works, kiddo? It's basic math. Computer science is just math in practice. Boolean logic is math.

It gets compiled to machine code, executed and fed into the CPU control unit.

Where does the math finally come into play? :^)

>NLU
> Subset of Natural Language Processing

Okay, I'd like to see how far you get in deeply understanding those fields without mathematics.

Also note that the best Computer Scientists are/where mathematicians.

Alan Turing

Alonzo Church

Haskell Curry

John Von Neumann

I could go on, and on.

>technology graduates
Unless you study some social/history technology major (I expect to become a thing soon), you absolutely need math, Ahmed.

Natural philosophy, mofo

Wedding out the lazy and stupid, because you'd have to be both for the required math to be a problem.

Hopefully it will also give you the tools to make good estimates, and do the math needed for whatever problem your code is solving.

But That's secondary. Mainly, it's too weed out morons. Like op.

ahahah this guy...
building is all about moving electrons and protons neutrons that are grouped with certain groups being placed on top of each other, I don't need to be a fucking physicist to build a house. besides your fucking reasoning is so retareded

> A variable is a placeholder for a numerical location in memory

and? do I need to know how to calculate the polynomial of your retardation in 50 ways to know that?

> A string is a numerical array of numerical representations of characters.

woah, good thing i spent that extra year learning autistic algebra, otherwise I wouldn't know what a fucking number is

> All functions are mathematical operations
no they aren't

> If you don't have the pattern recognition, critical thinking skills or logic for some basic math classes

blah blah blah buzzwords
it sounds to me you are butthurt that you just spent so much of your time for useless shit and you are deluding yourself into believing that it really wasn't a gigantic waste of time.

because you are a software engineer, who dont need to come up with a new hashing algorithm or some other shit.

Filter out the dumdums

The point is, you don't need math to be a code monkey that treats programming like playing with lego blocks, but you do need it if you want to work more complex and interesting software.

Try solving this problem with your brainlet tier math skills: codeforces.com/problemset/problem/457/E

I've been studied CS for a few years, and I'm about to graduate.

I hated Math when I started and wasn't that good at it, but I'm glad I took the courses.
Even if I never end up using the Math itself the classes prepared me a lot for thinking through more complicated CS problems.

boy you math niggers think programming is all about solving math problems huh? what about designing code that works for a long period of time with no change? stability? extensibility? security? programming non-math related shits isn't just being legos, it's building a ton of fucking legos in a clever manner.

enjoy touching a tiny part of programming whilst acting all superior, McFaggot

Why are you such a brainlet?

>If you're not using math, you're just a technician and those people contribute nothing to the advancement of technology.

So 99% of all tech jobs then?

i don't enjoy solving worthless math problems, nor dealing with it, what's the point? I'd rather make something that is more personal

>rotating an object called "degrees" by 43 units

I bet you also claim code doesn't have to be optimized, Pajeet. Because that's where maths are important, and the reason why most software is shit.

>worthless math problems
Everything is built on math, all of technology and programming.

Computer Science (actual computer science) SHOULD require heavy math. I really wish these universities would stop calling their Software Engineering programs "computer science".

>Software engineering uses math/logic in the same way as described above.
>Cybersecurity is all fucking math. Cryptography is math, you pleb.

So... everyone in "computers" will be replaced by AI?

Yeah

I also wish universities would stop calling their software engineering programs "computer engineering"

But the world is shit

>If you're not using math, you're just a technician and those people contribute nothing to the advancement of technology.

me lol

lmao what shit university did you go to where your comp eng program was heavily programming based?
at mine they basically teach the students basic CS and programming with C, and then the other three years are all about hardware, circuit design, embedded systems, etc...
my software engineering program is the same for the first year, and then there is heavy focus on object oriented programming, design of large systems, software development lifecycle, agile techniques, metrics, etc...

Cyber security is more finding holes in other people's logic with the occasional breaking out a math page on Wikipedia when you have to remember how to calculate something every blue moon.
Cyber security is basically just being an annoying girlfriend always pointing out where you forgot to do the obvious thing in the mess of the 100 other things you were doing

The shit I read here is insane.

I work in a robotics project. I'm mec engineer that also has a programming background. Most of the people I know in the project that only have a programing background are very good at programming, but are clueless when it comes to actually coding a general solution to a problem.

See, if you don't have some sort of math background, you tend to solve your problem with 102810 if, elif, conditions, which could be allright for simple things but is actually not good for problems you can't easly picture in your head.

Also for all those that say "wikipedia solves everything"... Have you heard of the concept of double ignorance. It's pretty hard to look for things you don't even begin to imagine that exist. The resulting code is thus a fucking big pile of if conditions again when sometimes the problem could have been solved by 3-4 lines of code that exploit a certain mathematic property.

On top of that, lot's of the interesting stuff on wikipedia about maths can be quite hard to understand without at least a bit of initial mathematics understanding. (I'm not talking about dot-product tier stuff)

Okay dudes how do I into math enough to understand algorithms, computer graphics and crypto? I think the most advanced math I did at school covered integrals.

Examples plz

Those are all different fields. For example not sure how far you want to go in crypto, but if you want to have an at least basic understanding you need to know basic number theory at bare minimum.

If you want to go deeper down the rabbit hole learn Group Theory, Finite Field Arithmetic, and Abstract Algebra in general. Also some Probability theory/Information Theory would help too.

>algorithms
Third book in God Tier

>computer graphics
A good understanding of linear algebra for 2D. 3D involves some harder shit (like quaternions for 3D rotations) but also requires a good understanding of rendering pipelines and graphics programming. For implementations it depends if you're into real-time graphics or rendered. For real-time I'd suggest this for a start
simonschreibt.de/gat/renderhell/
And here's the bible of PBR rendering
pbrt.org/

>crypto
A masters at a good university

Thanks chaps

Because they are hoping you will take that knowledge and go further in your education, and expand the field. Instead of being a code monkey.

My robots play soccer.

When do you want to apply an offese strategy instead of a defense strat?

You can take the "geometric center" of the opposong team robot, verify if it's in our zone or theirs and make a choice with that.

It's simple and could work. It could be even more precise if you take their future positions.

The thing is you don't know what command they're being sent so you have to make a model to represent their possible next positions.

You can try to fit a random polynomial curve that "looks" like what a real robot would do, tune parametters, apply deadzones, etc... and that shit could work, but the "true" solution is acually to model the 2D accelerated particle representing each robot, representing their actual speed, positions and acceleration with a statistical law, inputing those in the model then generate a boudary of possible next positions based on what is physically possible for the robot to accomplish.

The math fields recquied to do that is stats, advanced calculus, and the mathematical intuition developped by practicing math problems for a long time. The later is actually required to come up with the idea of the solution in the first place.

Also, it's allways simpler to visullize the result of an algorithm if it respects clear mathematical / physical laws.

Math helps teach you to think logically, and logic is the main component of those careers.

>programming non-math related shits isn't just being legos
lol ok bud. I can pay a poo in loo $5 an hour to do what you do, and they'd do a better job.