ADDITIONALLY: If you use Signal for your phone, install he desktop app. It is able to decrypt all your phone messages. Therefore, desktop app has access top private encryption key from phone.
The private key must have traversed Signal's server to reach desktop app. Therefore, Signal's servers can access your private keys and decrypt your messages, to be read by Moxie's CIA handlers, at any time.
>convince me Signal isn't a CIA honeypot Why would I try to convince you of something that isn't true
Anthony Wood
>ignore app problem solved
Nathan Perry
Who cares? You're not a piece of garbage, thirsty-ass pedophile hidefaggot. Don't worry about it.
Charles Edwards
Every single one of these guys gets harassed, doesn't mean shit. Regarding the Arab Spring, shit Facebook and Twitter played a much bigger and more instrumental role, they didn't need to dig into encrypted shit when there was a trove of decrypted data around.
Kayden Gomez
Trying to hide from the CIA is fucking retarded and you will lose. You do not protect yourself against state level actors; you protect yourself from corporations.
Jace Stewart
Signal has no real funding model though. Who's to say your chats aren't being secretly sold to corporations?
William Bell
It's being sold as a privacy app while being the opposite, though. You can want privacy without being a degenerate.
Signal requires you to have a phone with google services. You can't use it even on the pc without that being the case. Since the user IDs are not derived form the public key of the user it is also difficult to verify that you are talking with whom you think that you talk to. Moreover singal uses a centralised service.
Cooper Wood
Serious question - what is the newest platform / application / etc. that Sup Forums has, for the most part, accepted as being good?
Anything is either being "shilled", is a botnet, or is a honeypot. I know random individuals will shitpost about this so it will never be 100%, but is there anything that the consensus actually likes / uses that is not old?
Adrian Kelly
>It is able to decrypt all your phone messages. Therefore, desktop app has access top private encryption key from phone. maybe the encryption key is your password used to log in..?
Ryan Campbell
When it was revealed that whatsup (which also uses the singal protocol) has a backdoor which allows facebook to request from your client to silently resend any messages that you sent to someone with a different encryption key every signal shill in the world started strawmanning and whining about fake news.
I would suggest XMPP/IRC with OTR (sadly it uses weak encryption) or tox.
Oliver Richardson
>Therefore, desktop app has access top private encryption key from phone. Do you connect the phone to the PC? If so I can't see the problem.
In that case moxie can decrypt anything that you wrote as he has your password.
Christopher Phillips
>closed source guaranteed honeypot
Lincoln Ross
>a backdoor for facebook to bypass your encryption Zuck for prez 2020
Mason Gonzalez
idk how this moxie character is, but does he have your password tho? maybe a hash of it.
idk, in any case you are right
Christopher Carter
t. reddit bootlicker
Adam Ramirez
>I wouldn't worry about it goyim!
Brayden Roberts
>dom individuals will shitpost about this so it will never be 100%, but is there anything that the consensus actually likes / uses that is not old?
Best thing I've found is running a private XMPP server. For clients, use Chatsecure/Conversations.im/Gajim with OMEMO encryption. Similar to Signal's encryption, but the server does not steal your private keys, and stores no chat archives by default.
Also, XMPP works like email. [email protected] can message [email protected]. XMPP is the future that never happened because of normies taking over the internet.
>Signal is a CIA honeypot Of course it is. That's why State Department promotes it for "revolutionary and democratic movement in """oppressed""" countries."
It's also why FBI is not bitching about it and isn't asking for keys.
Jason Reyes
It it FOSS however Moxie 1: is against people compiling it themselves 2: is against repositories compiling it for people 3: does not provide reproducible builds Thus it would not be impossible that the official builds (which are distributed only via google play and can be used only in devices with GCM) are backdoored.
Austin Jenkins
>moxie when you place a backdoor into your own software only to find naked r34 pictures of yourself
Jayden Gonzalez
I can understand why you deleted this.
Angel Hernandez
>Moxie is against freedom and forks he's a jew
Christian Sanchez
>he's a jew dammit. every god damn time
Austin Diaz
Can you verify that the messages that you receive are not forged? Isn't XMPP XML bullshitte? Does it allow for deniable authentication? What algorithms does it use?
Christian Price
Alt-righters are the biggest cucks
Justin Edwards
And what if he is?
Chase Long
what do you think about matrix chat / riot.im? uses signals encryption and is still in beta but going main stream soon about.riot.im/security/
Evan Torres
sorry. riot actually uses olm a version of double ratchet developed independently from signals
Aaron Hall
>ADDITIONALLY: If you use Signal for your phone, install he desktop app. It is able to decrypt all your phone messages. Therefore, desktop app has access top private encryption key from phone. This is wrong. I've poked around in the protocol and what happens when you add the desktop app is it creates another key pair and publishes the new public key. After that, every time someone sends you a message it encrypts the message with each public key and sends them. If you have two desktop apps in addition to the phone, you'll actually see 3 distinct posts to the Signal API. This is why you cannot access messages that were sent prior to setting up the desktop App.
Don't believe me? Open the Chrome developer tools for the App and watch the API calls when sending messages to people with the desktop App.
Ryan Campbell
I tried the web version of matrix and it was a js-infested crap. Moreover it uses bullshit like HTTP, JSON, WebRTC, and other web3.0 crap. I also dislike the fact that it needs a server in order to work - I would prefer a distributed approach. That being said, I have not looked into the crypto behind it.
James Bailey
>it creates another key pair and publishes the new public key. After that, every time someone sends you a message it encrypts the message with each public key and sends them Is the new keypair signed by the old one? If not, how do they know that it is not an attacker that publishes that keypair?
Hudson Campbell
Yeah. The desktop shows you a QR code which you scan with the App to complete the process.
Luis Brown
>The desktop shows you a QR code Which is the hash of the public key I assume?
Logan Fisher
I didn't actually bother to decode it, but I assume it is something like that. I was more interested in the over the wire protocol. Try it and let us know.
Adrian Jenkins
someone complain about it, so they remove it on the subreddit of privacy.io
Christopher Green
I see, WebRTC really shits up everything since it doesn't work over tor
Logan Clark
Scanning the QR code. Reads: >tsdevice:/?uuid=##########&pub_key=##########
With actual characters instead of "#" of course.
Christian Hernandez
Which means private key isn't being transferred by the QR code.
Noah Hernandez
>Signal uses AES256, an outdated encryption algorithm. What's worse is that it uses it in CBC mode in certain cases
bait?
Anthony Martinez
No, why would it be?
Justin Lee
Because aes256-cbc isn't broken?
Jason Johnson
The plaintext is encrypted using AES-256 in CBC mode with PKCS#7 padding, using the encryption key and IV from the previous step
Riot is still a pretty shit client focused on groupchats, with devs not caring about 1:1 chat. I'm not even sure there's a way to see if a person is online on it, and instead of contact list you have a bunch of separate 2 man rooms. XMPP with OMEMO is probably the best ATM if you can get your normie friends past "what's that never heard ofust be bad"
whether it uses aes256-cbc was never in dispute. why don't you state why it's broken, preferably with citations.
Elijah Barnes
See
Adrian Perry
>In Europe, the CIA set up “Radio Free Europe” and “Radio Liberation From Bolshevism” (later renamed "Radio Liberty"), which beamed propaganda in several languages into the Soviet Union and Soviet satellite states of Eastern Europe.
Reporting news is propaganda now? Is this Breitbart clone?
Lincoln Smith
Any reason not to use it
Hunter Roberts
AES has some known attacks which are faster than the generic attacks. AES is complex and it is difficult to create side-channel resistant implementations for it. AES is slower and weaker in general when compared to more modern ciphers. No sane person uses the CBC mode. Every sane person uses a CTR-based mode for everything.
Jacob Mitchell
Sup Forums has been leaking for a while now
Dominic Williams
>AES has some known attacks which are faster than the generic attacks. Are they faster to allow for a feasible attack? Going from 2^256 to 2^237 isn't going to compromise anyone's security
>AES is complex and it is difficult to create side-channel resistant implementations for it. Not an issue unless you're rolling your own crypto.
>AES is slower and weaker in general when compared to more modern ciphers. See first point
>No sane person uses the CBC mode. >Every sane person uses a CTR-based mode for everything.
Elaborate?
James Jenkins
>>Signal creator later makes apps to help Arab Spring. Arab Spring was orchestrated by CIA. Sure is Sup Forums here.
Julian Hughes
>Are they faster to allow for a feasible attack? No, but attacks only get faster, not slower. If you encrypt something now you will want it to be private for quite a long time.
>Not an issue unless you're rolling your own crypto. Yeah no. Side channel attacks are some of the most cruel and difficult to protect against attacks. There are multiple issues concerning power usage and timing attacks on common AES implementations every year. This is why you should instead use primitives which are designed for side channel resistance.
>See first point How does this address the slowness issue?
>weaker "weaker" does not only refer to the known attacks but also to the general design decisions that were made during the AES competition.
>Elaborate? There is no reason to select CBC instead of CTR. No sane person would select CBC instead of CTR.
Dominic Jones
This
Brayden Gutierrez
I probably should have been more specific in the beginning. Aes256-cbc isn't perfect, but the flaws mentioned isn't exactly convincing proof that it's a CIA honeypot. You'd think that a honeypot would be something so it's easy for you to decrypt the messages. Some theoretical/unfeasible attacks isn't it.
Maybe if they were using dualEC I'd might be convinced.
Easton Gomez
>isn't exactly convincing proof that it's a CIA honeypot I am not claiming that it is. I am just claiming that it is a bad design decision for a modern protocol.
Joshua Reed
(((Moxie Marlinspike)))
Jose Sanchez
>slowness issue yep, because 5% lower battery life is exactly what the CIA wants
Kevin Perez
>ADDITIONALLY: If you use Signal for your phone, install he desktop app. It is able to decrypt all your phone messages. Therefore, desktop app has access top private encryption key from phone. When you install Signal on your computer and it gives you this QR code to link with your phone it includes a public key which your phones signal app uses to do key exchange with your computer.
It's not rocket surgery. They don't just magically swap keys.
Easton Allen
If it can produce the public key for a QR, it can open up a TCP connection to cia.net and send it there too.
James Cruz
Private key should never be transferred but certainly never through an unencrypted medium.
Jayden James
>There is no reason to select CBC instead of CTR. No sane person would select CBC instead of CTR. You're just saying the same thing.
Why would someone use CTR over CBC?
Justin Smith
I guess everything is a CIA honeypot then.
Anthony Jones
weren't you just crying about freeze peach? just care about civil rights when it suits you?
Parker Adams
Everyone have something to hide. Not everyone have something illegal to hide, but everyone have sensitive data that should not be available to people over the internet.
Austin Murphy
Even if it's just pictures of my dick.
Jack Butler
for
Cameron Johnson
It's not illegal unless you flash em to people. But a CIA plant still can steal it and use it to blackmail you.
Jordan Ward
> The private key must have traversed Signal's server to reach desktop app.
Are you literally fucking retarded. The desktop app creates a new set of private keys and registers the public key online. When someone sends you a message, it's encrypted with both session keys (that are derived from the identity keys).
It's fucking free software, read the code you cunt.
Eli Evans
Is the server backend open source yet?
Asher Jackson
> 1: is against people compiling it themselves Is against technically illiterate people tryning to compile it themselves, because it has a timer that nukes the app after 90 days if you don't rebuild and update it. > Thus it would not be impossible that the official builds (which are distributed only via google play and can be used only in devices with GCM) are backdoored. You can download the APK from the website. Literally fucking Google "signal apk". signal.org/android/apk/
Landon Jones
>You can download the APK from the website. Literally fucking Google "signal apk". signal.org/android/apk/ He added that after everyone started whining about it.
It's been free software for many years. Everyone was concerned about RedPhone, but if you don't use calls then you don't care (also I believe it was made free software as well).
Kevin Bailey
Signal is the only even remotely privacy focused app I can get my normie friends to use. For my securitard friends, we usually chat on a self hosted irc server that doesn't keep logs or encrypted emails.
Mason Rivera
Not everything is a CIA honeypot. Somethings are NSA or FBI Honeypots and anything involving guns is an ATF honeypot.
Colton Powell
>bullshit like HTTP, JSON, WebRTC What do you prefer?
Carter Taylor
>He added that after everyone started whining about it. And? It's still there isn't it?
Blake Nguyen
Read a book faggot.
Jayden Bennett
> "It's only distributed on Google Play." > "No it's available here." > "Yeah but he only added that because people complained."
Why does that matter? Yes, he only added it after people complained, they removed the GCM dependency (which was also wrong about), and added auto-updating outside of the Play Store. But you can download it now, so why does that matter?
Not to mention that there is an FDroid repo that provides builds and has provided builds ever since it was dropped from official FDroid.
Sebastian Anderson
Yes it does matter you cunt. Why didn't he do nuffin earlier, especially knowing the people who use his app, aka privacy aware fags, don't usually have gapps?
Mason Young
>Why didn't he do nuffin earlier, especially knowing the people who use his app, aka privacy aware fags, don't usually have gapps? Impressive that you can read minds user. You should use that power for more important things.
Easton Hall
Some of my information was outdated it seems. But it does not change the fact that he was an ass. It was difficult and took a long time to convince him to drop GCM and distribute official binaries outside google play.
>Not to mention that there is an FDroid repo that provides builds and has provided builds ever since it was dropped from official FDroid. I never claimed that it is not compilable. The problem is that he was against it and caused problems for FDroid.
Hudson Harris
>took a long time to convince him to drop GCM I thought that was on his roadmap for a long time but initially it was an issue of keeping push notifications while not sucking the battery dry which GCM was convenient for.
Brandon Diaz
a) Because software development takes time. b) WebSockets had a massive battery life impact, that had to be rectified first. c) You can fucking download it now, you're complaining about an issue that was resolved.
If you wanted it to go faster maybe you should've written the fucking patches rather than wasting people's time ranting about it. Fucking autists, man.
Evan Lewis
wire is for wire...tap
Matthew Diaz
> It was difficult and took a long time to convince him to drop GCM and distribute official binaries outside google play.
It was difficult because there were a lot of problems that were not solved in the No-Gapps community. Some of them are still unsolved, but Moxie just went ahead and made the pragmatic decision of publishing it anyway.
Everyone is bitter that Moxie didn't just do what everyone was ranting about. I agree that it took longer than I would've liked, but there were several technical reasons why it took so fucking long -- not to mention he had to deal with all of the bullshit from autists that the outrage likely made it take longer.
If you honestly feel you could've done it faster and better than Moxie, you should've written a patch. In free software, you're not entitled to anything, and if you feel you're so clever maybe you should've done it.
Josiah Ortiz
Wtf man? It's just common sense. People have been using cm with no gapps with fdroid/aptoide for years. There was conversations app on droid loong ago you twat. It had no problems being independent of gapps. And no thanks i wont use it even though the issue is resolved. It's a matter of his intent.
Gavin Wilson
Why would I write a patch for a software that I do not give a shit about? There are multiple better solutions which I prefer.
Easton Hall
> There was conversations app on droid loong ago you twat.
And it likely got fisted by battery life issues. The WebSocket battery life problem is well known, and even fucking DAVDroid has a warning about it.
If you don't give a shit about it, why are you complaining about it? If it bothers you so much, then you could've spent that energy productively.
Nicholas Torres
>If you don't give a shit about it, why are you complaining about it? To tell other anons to prefer other programs instead?
William Howard
>WebSocket What happened to socket(2)?
Robert Parker
*fdroid >battery life So? It's not like Google play services is battery friendly either. He could've just provided the builds with a warning so people with no gapps can use it. Why are you all over it man? Every app like facebook etc drain battery to hell yet people use it.
Oliver Anderson
Google Play Services is much more battery friendly than WebSocket. And what is worse, if you have Google Play Services installed and you install an app with WebSocket you are only increasing the battery drain when you could piggy back on Play Services instead.
Jeremiah Torres
Also, >He could've just provided the builds with a warning so people with no gapps can use it. Because people would have totally gone. >the battery life is shit but he gave a warning it would be like that because its not using gapps instead of >the battery life is shit so this app is shit
