CPU bugs

It's 2017 and we can't even trust our hardware
youtube.com/watch?v=KrksBdWcZgQ

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youtube.com/watch?v=rM81Ir0sF9A
secure.raptorcs.com/
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What kind of nerdy shit is this, who even cares?

Nu/g/, everyone.

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Go back to your techno consumerist containment threads

> oh noes my bits are not secure
I bet you hate Ubuntu for no reason

israel, china, and russia do not collude
secure yourself behind a router of each and there is no backdoor that can reach you from outside

whenever there is physical access, it's over, that has always been the case
do what you can to protect from outside threats, when the thread is inside it's already too late and it doesn't matter if there was a backdoor or not

You'd think there'd be a market for "open" processors.

you would think there would be more than two main x86 cpu manufacturers

So how would you know if the router isn't backdoor'ed what then? Aren't you also only assuming outbound attack vectors? What about inbound?

His theory is that Israel, China, and Russia would not share backdoors so even if all the routers were compromised by their individual nations no single router would be able to get information in or our because it has two other routers that it does not have backdoors for in it's way. This strategy hinges on the assumption that one of those nations hasn't compromised the other two's hardware backdoor intelligence gathering program which while unlikely, isn't impossible.

this is fucking amazing

Patents, unless you want to make a 486 clone you're going to run into trouble.

Israel provided Russia with instructions on how to hijack their drones so they could hijack Georgia's israeli made drones during the war. They also extradited a bunch of russian mob bosses that had ran away to Israel and had gained citizenship there.
They have way more cooperation than you'd think.

Is this a joke?

Worst theory of the yeear.

did he ever disclose the processor that had instructions lock up in unprivileged mode?

>> 62190555
Yes goyim, don't worry about us having the ability to completely freeze a PC with a specific x86 CPU using a generic program executed by a normal user. And the other literal millions of undocumented instructions found on a variety of processors? Yes, you can safely ignore them all.

What the fuck.

I'm pretty sure MMX patents have expired by now, so you could create a P2 equivalent

This kills the IoT

So what about the millions of undocumented instructions?
Are there weird versions of normal stuff?

I stopped watching when, in 2017 ( current year ), he claimed we blindly trust our CPU. The same CPus that have advertised kill switches in them.

>panel starts
>woman complains about how women and minorities don't want to work in security
>statistics literally have not changed in years
>women and minorities who do get security jobs, quit right away
For the next hour they talk about how to waste money on programs. Because "surely it will work this time."

11:40
old jew points at the crowd
>"this is YOUR fault"

Having actually watched the talk, the conclusion was that the only interesting hardware bug he had found was in a really esoteric processor that noone uses. Cool program and approach, and interesting disassembler and hypervisor bugs were found, but nothing of real concern.

Basically what you should understand is that as long as processors are proprietary, you will never be free. You can full autism OpSec your setup and even use retrogear. But at the end of the day, the processor is locked away. You will never ever know what it really does.

BH is sponsored by NSA hell two years ago they had a talk there.

thankfully no significant hardware bugs.
But he found many undocumented instructions. Not saying they're backdoors necessarily, but it's still a bit worrying that they're not properly documented.

What is wrong with a country sending criminals back to their native countries? Israel has suffered from Russian immigration because they lie about being Jewish when the western world refuses to let in Russians into Europe, USA and Canada.

Where in my post did i say it was wrong?

>the conclusion was that the only interesting hardware bug he had found was in a really esoteric processor that noone uses.
I was under the impression that he didn't actually test the millions of working undocumented opcodes (that didn't result in a crash)

Christ.

We cannot let the left ruin tech/STEM anymore than they already have.

modern society has already ruined the west
all that's left to do is exact revenge

I wish more def con 25 talks would get posted.

>2016 revenge
Check
>2020 revenge
In progress

There's work remaining to be done, for sure, but there didn't seem to be any particular reason to outright expect exploitable behavior.

>Intel x86 ignores 66e9 and 66e8 opcodes while AMD honors them

INTEL FAGS BTFO

I've been watching this so far

>AMD and Intel have the same undocumented instructions

that really makes you think don't it? I really wonder what they are... *cough* backdoor, NSA shit *cough*

But AMD honoring those instructions caused an exploit between the two.

The phone thread's where you should be.

Hahahaha oh we're fucked.

Yes there does. One should assume that these undocumented instructions are malicious these days.

Nah, they put that shit in the IME. There isn't even a need to compromise the CPU itself.

Sure there is, what if some autists were to figure out how to disable the ME? Also, we know Intel will disable it for certain customers.

There is every reason to backdoor the CPU and we should assume this has been done until we learn more. If there's one thing these past few years have taught us is that you can't be too paranoid.

Good stuff. I remember reading about undocumented instructions on the 6502 used in the NES, this is several times more in-depth ..

They infect the HR department the same way during the USSR had a communist party liason in every damn building/operation/business

Some of it could just be a unintended byproduct result of the manufacturing process / artitecture layout ; but that probably doesn't explain all of it...

you could always build your own out of an old desktop box with older hardware, not sure id pay for the electricity to let it run 24/7 but it would work for inbound requests at least

Yep, this.

Still sooner or later businesses will realize that their HR departments are cucking them BIGLY, or competitors will emerge staffed largely by white and asian males and we'll see a rennaisance.

Right now businesses only put up with HR due to DOJ civil rights bullshit and possible lawsuits from former employees.

risc v

Yep, government cucking businesses again.

This really caused some neurons to fire and psionic emissions to exude from my third eye.

international arms traders typically don't give out their best shit to people who might one day use those arms against them.

Now this is what Sup Forums should be discussing about, but alas this is Sup Forums... God help us

Great presentation

if there are millions of undocumented instructions that can have an effect on registers / memory it can throw off disassemblers completely, and there's no way anyone could write anything that could decode everything successfully since there's so many of them

That's like saying since AMD locks it's front door, it's responsible for burglaries in Intel homes.

READ the comments!

youtube.com/watch?v=rM81Ir0sF9A

or maybe AMD has a license of Intels instruction set and get the inside info on secret instructions.


Yeah, a backdoor shouldn't require already being executing on the system in the first place, that's more of an exploit for higher privilege.

honestly i did not expect the comment section to become so aggressive about it.

I've done work with the 8080 processor and it's clones. They can have a lot of undocumented instructions. And the reason is simple. Most undocumented instructions are just duplicates of documented instructions.

This happens because decoding often uses shortcuts. So say if byte 0xFD starts an instruction, it maps to an extended instruction set that does a specific purpose. Some times that extended set doesn't use 256 instructions for the next byte in the instruction. So you have some unmapped instruction left over in the set. You have 3 options, flag an error, map to NOP or let it fall through as if 0xFD wasn't there. The later tends to be cheaper.

ppl are sick of this shit but they're afraid to say anything at work.

This is true* and I wouldn't say that there are backdoors in all CPUs just in the ones where the Agencies infiltrated the foundry.
*For the sceptic just build an ALU on pic related

Never heard of pic related before. I would have loved a class like that back when I was in college.

hypervisor bugs are not a real concern? what fucking drugs are you on?

the research is on how to approach the issue of trusting hardware and he showed good examples in his research on how the design of the x86 is,was and always will be broken. his tiny examples are a prove enough that with just a tiny bit of fuzzing just shows what kind of cluster fuck tech architecture is and how much impact it can potentially have. let aside the undocumented shit that we have no idea what purpose they serve.

the design flaws are the biggest concern which can lead to things lead to privilege escalation because of different implementation of the instructions on intel/amd. that is fucking scary and should concern you

>hypervisor bugs are not a real concern?
Sure they are, but the ones he demonstrated were really quite minor. I don't see how not tripping the trap flag directly after a cpuid instruction would cause any major issues.

hmmmmmmm

Really makes you think why we still use shitty CISC.

>which can lead to things lead to privilege escalation
There was no indication that was actually the case, though.

I mean, I don't disagree with the idea that the x86 ISA is needlessly complex, that its complexity almost inevitably leads to divergent implementation, and that that's a bad thing. The size override prefix on the jump instruction was particularly interesting, and is a strong argument for a simpler, more provable ISA. However, that being said, it is arguable that the fact that he didn't seem to find any actual serious bugs using this approach is a testament to how well current processors, emulators and hypervisors are, in fact, implemented, even in spite of such a crappy ISA.

It's a simple and not exactly obvious way of making malware VM-aware.

Yes, well, it's completely naive to think that it wouldn't be easy to make software able of distinguishing between different CPU models anyway, physical or emulated. That would be the case on any architecture.

most people on the internet hate SJW now even normie sick of their shit and jewtube comments section is a shitstorm no matter the discussion

Because commonly used instructions can take 1 byte instead of 4?

Blacked Hat !!!
KEK top comment

he did mention that there are millions of results per cpu. i would think it needs some time to rule out that none of them are issues

Oh wow they are in every facet.

Certainly, there's more work to be done. Nevertheless, nothing has been found yet.

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time to hack them

They are sponsored by NSA.

this should be an indicator for blackhat to never attempt to shill again. but since half of the community are closet faggots and mentally ill im sure this will be not the last to influence it.

the organization should get some shit for this garbage. if i look at the CCCongress, it is already on a level with tons of off topic pseudo politics garbage and far less about technology as it was like .... 10 years ago. quality overall has decreased a lot and i'd hate to see that happen to blackhat and defcon

Fucking kek

You mean Ubuntu nsa developed linux

Time to create a new and better desktop arch usable by all

>this should be an indicator for blackhat to never attempt to shill again

The video opens with her saying that it's the third annual diversity panel. I'm not sure a handful of Youtube comments will stop them.

>mfw xkcd-standards.jpg

What was the processor that halted?

>3rd annual

this.

hasn't disclosed yet

>processor that almost no one uses
>"halt and catch fire"
i9-7980XE confirmed for having userland exploitable bug that crashes execution


:^)

secure.raptorcs.com/

they tend to drop the last half of the year if 25 was this year

great talk, although most way over my head

>cyber
defcon would have asked him take some shots for that

Defcon is dead.

what?

>goons
>noobs (literally kids) in large numbers
Trust me its been dead for a while

>*cough* *cough*
did your mouth get filed with semen and you gagged?

What's wrong with the noobs as long as they're not being fags about it? That's only a good thing, as a larger and wider audience is being reached. You're not one of those sekrit klub faggots, are you?

The main attractions of Defcon are still the bleeding edge talks and the competitions. I don't see why the more people is a bad thing to you.

>What's wrong with the noobs as long as they're not being fags about it?
Because they cant even name things pre C2D era,it is especially embarrassing when senior talkers ask simple questions and there is dead silence in the audience because they are so young.
Fuck every talker that gets on stage comments how many young people there.