Sup Forums, how do you feel about the movement to get more people into programming?
In some US school districts, programming courses are mandatory parts of the curriculum.
Is coding an industry tool meant for people going into the industry, or is it a life skill that people need to know moving forward in a more technologically dependent world?
If so, will having more and more programmers devalue the work/wages of existing programmers?
I feel it's one of those subjects that many of those who're forced to study will bitch, moan, and do poorly in and then never utilise in their lives.
Although I do think anyone can learn to program I feel that you have to at least want to learn it in order to get yourself over the initial hurdles and gain any actual competency in it.
fpbp
They're not learning how to program, they're learning popular languages like java or python to drive down wages of programmers.
This.
This is about driving down wages, nothing more.
A basic understanding of computing logic is essential In the modern world. Even if you never write a single line of code professionally simply understanding how machines work logically is an invaluable skill
my highschool did this, you had a few options for tech credits, you need 4 to graduate
introduction to computers and technology
digital art
drafting and design 1
drafting and design 2
architectural cad
introduction to programming and web design
programming and web design 1
programming and web design 2
game design 1
game design 2
but every single one of those classes besides digital art, you had to learn a programming language
for intro to comp it was java, all the drafting classes it was python, programming and web design did css, javascript and other html shit. game design had to learn C++ and lua
this is why i know python today, and why i wish i did any other class than autocad
I wish I could have taken a programming course or something similar as a kid. I think it's great to encourage kids to go into programming/engineering/math.
Much better than encouraging them to go into social science garbage and creating an entire generation of talentless adults with useless liberal arts degrees.
this
that's why these initiatives (and stupid "women in code" ones) are all sponsored by the big tech companies. They just want to pay us less.
>never utilize in their lives.
Teaching programming to youngsters is the best way to expose them to algorithmic thinking, similar to how teaching sciences exposes students to the scientific method. Whether they grow up to become computer scientists is trivial.
this
Really it should be 'people should be taught logic and reason' because those are similar but far more applicable (and necessary) in society, at least compared to koders that call themselves programmers because they can install a WordPress site.
Learning how to navigate computers and software is important. Building it, not so much
Bingo. Notice that this only became a thing when programmer salaries started going up. In the 90s it was something to be ridiculed.
All kids should get a chance to learn and try some basic coding, but any later "serious" coding should be optional. Coding is simply not for everyone, but it's very important that people get to try it early to see if coding is for them.
excel basics is enough
This is silly, any purple haired javascript bitch or pajeet would never get a job as a system designer or micro controller coder and you all know it. It's good to have a differenciated coding market. code != code
That's the point, most programming jobs are not system designer or micro controller coder.
However, give it 10 years and every other device will be running an ARM chip with a full-blown Linux distro, and your washing machine's programs will be written in Python.
>Try to wash my shower curtain
>Washing machine is running non-free code
>Tfw the botnet wants me to be dirty
"Coding" today is bat shit easy compared to how it used to be. Hell, I have friends sweeping in cash creating word press sites.
And it will only get easier. If you want to keep a decent salary, get a job that needs real coding talent.
fpbp
Planning on learning.Python, is codecademy best for it?
>If you want to keep a decent salary, get a job that needs real coding talent.
You're right, but a lot of those are going away. It's cheaper to develop a product with an overpowered CPU and a completely unnecessary off-the-shelf software stack than it is to hire skilled programmers to write a high quality, reliable, minimal system.
Take for example, most touch screen kiosks which are running an entire windows installation with a UI hosted in a web browser.
No. Either read a book or go through the Python Tutorial on python.org. With Codecademy you just mindlessly type in what they tell you to type with no real understanding of why you're typing it.
>or is it a life skill that people need to know moving forward in a more technologically dependent world?
No but it improves your logical reasoning skills which are transferable a lot better than mathematics classes.
Yeah, and everyone should know how to cook, clean, wash the clothes, fix the home plumbing, electric appliances, carpentry, drive and fix a car and some survival skills.
But they don't teach that at school, (((why?)))
because you do all those things when you get HOME from school? wtf kind of parents did you have
>is it a life skill that people need to know moving forward in a more technologically dependent world?
Not at FUCKING all. It's the same as teaching spreadsheet programs as if everyone is going to become an office worker. Everyone will become a "coder" if we teach them some useless language that's only good in a classroom setting.
I see your point, but remember that almost all hardware devices that, for example, is running Linux also need stuff like drivers and reliable internal programs/scripts that absoluty can not crash or fail.
There are still plenty of high skill programming jobs out there. But the percentage of the total programming jobs that require real skill is falling steeply, because that total number is increasing.
The total number will probably sink in the future as some tasks that needs coding today will be implemented with GUIs by normies.
Not really. At that level, most of the effort spent is going to go into teaching them the tools and language syntax.
This is the next maths. That subject in which most people will have no problem in saying they were never good at or hated.
Sup Forums doesn't "program" they jack off making hello worlds. More "normies" actually knowing how to program would mean they couldn't even PRETEND to be a programmer since if this happened the average person would be able to pick up on their bullshit and they wouldn't be able to offhandedly mention how better than them they are.
There's a reason why the tech industry is becoming over-saturated with so-caled "coders" and why many of them can't find any meaningful jobs.
there is a programer shortage,
((( the owners ))) also think that if they can get women programing instead of just being secretaries, hair dressers and making makeup videos they can steal more shekels from them.
Less people should get into programming so I get paid more.
Forcing normalfags to do it is especially retarded.
It's the factory job of today. Schools are trying to make coders like they used to make manufacture workers.
It's just like everyone should learn basic math idea. Everyone learns enough to struggle though very basic problems, and promptly forgets it as soon as the class is over.
At least this way everyone who says, "I can't code", will have to day, "I was taught, but am too stupid"
>there is a programer shortage,
There's no such thing as worker shortages, just massive corporations whining about the wages they have to pay to hire people with certain skillsets.
more coders = more linuxfags = more idiots giving me free software
it's great
No, more people should experience programming. They'll realize how difficult it is, copy programs off their peers and pass it. Then comes real world, everyone needs a pocket programmer, they don't want to do it again and call for help. Now you are charging an arm and a leg for your services.
It's stupid
They are making men even weaker by trying to get more people into non physical intensiv work and they would need to spend money on the gym but women won't be attrackted to those weak beta white men becauz they'll fuck literally anyone except for wimpy men who stay indoors all day to code. What women would want to fuck a coder? A woman with poor standards that's what.
It's a blatent ploy to saturate the job market and drive down wages while simultaneously increasing demand for their products in schools. This increased demand is built into the curriculum, basically creating a government-enforced mandate to use their products.
Sololearn is a pretty good website, similar to codecademy but they actually tell you what the fuck you're doing.
It's a false crisis created by the tech companies. Somehow everyone has forgotten this:
news.slashdot.org
yro.slashdot.org
This has been going on in one form or another all the way back to the early 2000s when these same companies wanted to offshore all the work to Indai.
Everyone should know how to control their computer, otherwise everyone ends up being controlled by their computer.
teaching programming in school is a surefire way to reduce the supply of programmers imo
just think about how much people hate math/chem/physics because of bullshit standardized schooling.
they should learn excel that's enough coding
Why do American programmers make so much more than every other country?
this.
People tolerate proprietary software because to someone who doesn't understand it, open source has little meaning.
>more programmers will DEVALUE THE ONES THAT ALREADY EXIST
Programming is a form of literacy, user. Nobody ever makes the argument that more people who know how to read makes people who already know how to read useless. The fact is: literacy is a basic building block for society. If you are really opposed to more people learning to program, it is evident that you view programming as some exclusive club.
Further: nobody in this thread should be opposed to more American programmers if they are opposed to Indians taking all the programming jobs in the UNITED STATES.
The more people coding, the more the world can utilize technology, advancements, innovations, etc... the world has already shifted. We have the owner of PayPal trying to lead us to mars...
I know I'm making a fallacy by saying this but every single person I know who has said that statement or it's equivalent is a fucking idiot.
It's like does faggots that take a philosophy major and think it will train them to think like a doctor. Or that mathematical proofs somehow translate to fucking law. Seriously fucking retarded logic.
And the scientific method is fucking gay.
just play vidya if u want problem solving skills
Because they're that much better. Have you ever seen the source code to Pajeet software? It would make your head explode.
Doesn't matter if most people don't make it as a professional. The goal is to make sure no talent goes undiscovered.
the least intelligent comment I've ever seen desu
Programming is just applied logic, so yeah, anyone could learn how to program.
Whether they want to turn that into a profession, that's another question. You need a particular type of personality to actually like programming.
And yeah it will drive wages down but this will also lead to more specialisation.
>You need a particular type of personality to actually like programming.
autism?
I like how the focus is on what you do with the provided tools, not the tools themselves. That's how my college courses were, and when I hear about things like "Python class" as a full course I kinda roll my eyes. It's like Hammer class for a carpenter.
it's a propaganda tool to justify mass automation, which basically only benefits the extreme rich. the idea that there will be endless demand for tech jobs is a pipe dream.
This is poo-level thinking.
It's a fucking meme started by Google, Microsoft, and Facebook in order to have a big supply of cheap programmers
>B-but I'm not autismo
>h-how can I temple os...
shes cute
arms a bit hairy tho
cant teach kids
theyll call u a pedo
since women dont know how to code
this will never work
This
this
Remember that teaching isn't about educating normies. You can make all the same arguments about algebra you guys make about coding. The vast majority of people never even grasp algebra, never use or need it, and forget it right after high school. And yet it's still a mandatory subject.
Because 5% of those kids will understand it, remember it, and use it to great effect later in life.
being incompetent wont stop them from applying for jobs though..
I don't know, my workplace (one of the big 4 in tech) looks for pretty good Linux skills and we turn away the vast majority of candidates. Money is hardly ever a problem I feel as though I'm paid very well. I used to feel this way but after being on this team scarcity might be legit although I'm also not in California.