Mac/Unix Friend here

Mac/Unix Friend here.

Looking to start a friendly discussion on Mac VS GNU/linux as a desktop OS

I use both regularly. I have an iMac, MacBook pro, and iPhone for personal use. I use a Fedora 26 box at work (Im a Systems/DevOps Engineer).

What does Sup Forums think?

Here my pros of both:

Mac:
>great touch pad with gestures
>seamless integration with iPhone and other macs
>software suites like Adobe and MS Office
>iCloud is pretty tight (backups, email, google drive clone)
>iMessage desktop client
>some games (blizzard for me mostly)
>portable+good out of the box battery life

Linux:
>best open source virtualization support (qemu+KVM, xen, etc)
>native support for containers
>native package managers
>customizability
>best privacy
>security

did I miss anything?

>What does Sup Forums think?
Nothing. Use what you want

Maybe somebody knows something that I don't that could be of benefit to me or others.

This is why we have discussions

>discussions

Just because you are a shitposter incapable of discussion doesn't mean everyone else is

I don't see iMessage as a perk. Wire completely negates iMessage, as its E2E encrypted with the Signal Protocol, and their servers are open source. It's also available for Mac, Linux, Windows, iOS, and Android. I just can't see any reason to use iMessage anymore. iPhone 6S user, btw.

Does wire work with SMS? Thats a big reason why I use it. Also dat blue bubble..

iMessage in iOS 11 will let you send people money via Apple Pay which will be really useful too

Wire does sound intriguing due to it's desktop app. I use signal and this seems like an upgrade

>Wire completely negates iMessage

iMessage is built in and works without doing anything. Until Wire does the same thing it's not negating shit because no one will consistently use it. iMessage is great because so many people use iMessage.

>Also dat blue bubble..
Explain why this matters.

>Does wire work with SMS
Not an issue for me. I've been able to convince everyone to try Wire, and the majority stick with it. The ones who don't know that they need to call me.

>Also dat blue bubble
I'm genuinely curious who gives a shit about this? And, whomever does, why should I care about their opinion?

>iMessage in iOS 11 will let you send people money via Apple Pay which will be really useful too
Because nobody has paypal.

>Wire does sound intriguing due to it's desktop app. I use signal and this seems like an upgrade
I have difficulty trusting any encrypted service based in the US.

>AOL Instant Messenger is great because so many people use AIM.

>Windows Live Messenger is great because so many people use Windows Live Messenger!

>Skype is great because so many people use Skype Messenger!

^This is how you sound to anyone who has been on the internet for more than a couple of years. Besides, iMessage/texting is dying in many parts of the world due to WhatsApp at the moment. Wire is most certainly better than WhatsApp in pretty much every conceivable way.

>[SMS] Not an issue for me
what about people with shit phones and applications with text verification systems?

> blue bubble I'm genuinely curious who gives a shit about this?
is a joke user

>Because nobody has paypal.
Why use multiple platforms for chat, SMS and personal payments when you could just use one?

There's nothing magical about Apple. If they're shit is locked down to specific hardware, I'd think the general expectation would be: "This shit better work well." I'm not looking to start a war or anything, but Android and Linux have a much larger challenge in supporting far more devices and they accomplish this task pretty well, given the sheer number of products out there. If Macs could run on even as much as FreeBSD does, then that may be something to proud of. Unfortunately, it's not the case, and it's users are left with either mediocre at best, or slightly better than mediocre hardware at a premium price.

its a joke

I'm a webdev, work gives me a Macbook pro to use at work, and I use Ubuntu at home.

Mac: Good if you have money
Linux: Good if you have time
Windows: Good if you're developing in .NET, or you're a Sup Forumsirgin.

Does iMessage send E2E Encrypted messages to Linux/Windows devices, as well as Mac, iOS, and Android? I would say its more of a draw than anything. I could see how either one could be more valuable to a person, depending on their needs, but just looking at the versatility, I don't see how iMessage has the edge unless you're regularly communicating to people with dumbphones.

>iMessage in iOS 11 will let you send people money via Apple Pay which will be really useful too
Will it work with anything? Like people with Android phones? People with Windows computers? Otherwise, I see it as a convenience for Apple to Apple, but lesser than paypal in all other respects.

>Why use multiple platforms for chat, SMS and personal payments when you could just use one?
With that mentality, you would be really happy with Google services. Privacy necessitates fragmentation.

so you are saying you prefer android/linux over iOS/MacOS because they can run on multiple hardware platforms?

>Will it work with anything? Like people with Android phones? People with Windows computers? Otherwise, I see it as a convenience for Apple to Apple

It will only be Apple to Apple I believe. You do bring up a good point. However, for me personally, this won't matter because most people I interact with use iPhones and or MacOS

>It will only be Apple to Apple I believe. You do bring up a good point. However, for me personally, this won't matter because most people I interact with use iPhones and or MacOS

I'm going to flip this argument back towards you, and let you see where I'm coming from.
>For me, personally, Apple Pay won't matter because most people I interact with use Paypal or American Express's Bluebird card, both of which lets you send money to other people's accounts.

Now if you're going to be subjective, than yeah, results vary. But if we are going to be talking about objective strengths, which is what the OP led me to believe, I still don't agree regarding iMessage.

>Privacy necessitates fragmentation
I completely agree, though I've taken to doctoring to a public online image and keeping everything else private. Least suspicious imo.

>you would be really happy with Google services
Google services are fantastic if you ignore their privacy implications. I wouldn't equate them to apple services though. The fact that google mines your data crosses a line for me. Apple isn't perfect but at least their business model doesn't revolve around selling your data. I think its a reasonable compromise

Having an iPhone doesn't prevent you from using Paypal or Amex. It offers you another option, though. Same with iMessage.

>thread with apple
>not shat up immediately
What board is this?

Umm...
Mac OS is such a bad joke, what's a good app that justifies the overpriced hardware?

I just bought my iMac ™ in order to deploy IOS shitty apps

Hell, all your mac """""pros""""" are gimmicky shit that doesn't justify throwing money like a retard.

That's the spirit!

To me, another option is only good if it brings something new to the table. I see iMessage as superfluous.

What you're arguing is that the minivan is the best option in the world of cars. It doesn't matter that there are better vehicles for moving shit, vehicles with better fuel efficiency, better vehicles regarding acceleration, and better vehicles regarding top speed, the minivan is the best because it half-asses all these things.

That's iMessage, and what it does, in comparison to other services.

>objective strengths

I don't really believe that software can have objective strengths across all cases. Software's advantages are relative to who is using it for what.

You are correct though, PayPal is completely platform agnostic, which is awesome. I have a payapl and I use it semi-frequently. However, this doesn't mean that payments in iMessage in addition to PayPal, a service I already use, do not benefit me or others and add to the strength of iMessage as a platform.

How come the best Mac software is a crappy port from a Linux project?

iTerm2 is the killer Mac app for me, its one of the big reasons I still us MacOS

Safari is pretty good as well, though I still use chrome and firefox regularly.

iMessage is good if you text people and know a lot of people with iPhones

The iWork suite is pretty good as well. Its totally free (with a purchase of an apple product ;)) and has both web and desktop clients that integrate with iCloud.

Im sure there are others that I don't use though

>I don't really believe that software can have objective strengths across all cases
Indeed. It typically comes down to user preference. Signal vs Wire is one such example. However, no matter what you're looking to do with iMessage, there is something out there that does it better, offering more security and more privacy. The only exception to this is regarding SMS messages, regarding which, iMessage is on even ground with its competitors. But if you didn't feel that iMessage was an objective "Pro" you shouldn't have listed it, as this seemed to be an attempt at objective pros and cons, rather than personal pros and cons (and if you are going for personal pros and cons, then this thread was bound to devolve into a shitfest).

>minivans
There's a reason everyone and their mom has a SUV in the family nowadays, user.

Also I fail to grasp what exactly it is you think iMessage "half-asses". Aside from being platform-bound it's pretty much a perfect messenger as far as functionality goes. And I say that as someone who uses it once a month maybe.

For me the most important things are stability, security, and choices. Having to make manual backups or update using the command line doesn't bother me in the slightest, which is why I use Fedora. DNF is a great package manager. The third party Homebrew trash on Macs isn't very good.

>Aside from being platform-bound it's pretty much a perfect messenger as far as functionality goes
It isn't, because it isn't E2E encrypted using open source, tested cryptology. You would have been able to make an argument about "convenience vs privacy," a few years ago, but that argument is out the window, thanks to apps like Wickr, Signal, Wire, WhatsApp, etc.

Yeah. The reason behind it is because not everyone can afford a V8 truck, a Lamborghini, and a Tesla all at once. You don't have the excuse of finances to justify not using the best app, because the overwhelming majority of them are literally free, and the ones that aren't cost a pittance.

Not really, what I mean is, if Apple had to stand up against the same challenges as Android and Linux, in terms of hardware compatability, I guarantee you, they would fall flat on their faces. The whole deal with developing for a retardedly small number of hardware combos is what spawned the current mentality of removing shit = features. Use whatever you want, but realize that you're trading computing power and freedom of choice, for a system with a nice stock OS.

>, if Apple had to stand up against the same challenges as Android and Linux, in terms of hardware compatability, I guarantee you, they would fall flat on their faces

This is one their big selling points though. Thats what enables them to make such solid products.

>realize that you're trading computing power and freedom of choice, for a system with a nice stock OS.

Can't argue with this. One of the reasons I've been flirting with the idea of switching to linux

> if feel that iMessage was an objective "Pro" you shouldn't have listed it

OP said it was a list of "my pros", not objective pros.

time is money user. These things matter to people, especially normies

That's just sad user, iterm is shit, safari is a crappy implementation of khtml, the imessage shilling is plain retarded considering that it's not cross vendor,and the icloud the least secure way to transfer data.

>stability, security, and choices
macOS is very stable, though less secure. I can't argue on the choices though this doesn't matter much to me (in regards to the UI) if the defaults are good enough.

>The third party Homebrew trash on Macs isn't very good

Agreed. It breaks pretty frequently and requires Xcode. Better than nothing though.

It is e2e encrypted though. Your whole argument basically boils down to "it's not open-sores".
>not everyone can afford a V8 truck, a Lamborghini, and a Tesla
Kek. Of course not. Most people have absolutely no need for ridiculously impractical sportscars or a gasguzzling penis extender for dudebros that he used to haul four-by-twos that one time 2 years ago. SUVs are just practical cars best fit for the totality of everyday usecases.

>macOS is very stable
It's far more stable than garbage piles like Arch or Windows but it's nowhere near Fedora or especially something like Debian. I do have some of the built in Mac applications like the Mail app malfunction or freeze once in a while but if I kill it the problem is fixed, so at least there's that.

> iterm is shit
what makes you say that? its pretty slick if ask me

> safari is a crappy implementation of khtml

So is every other modern browser. WebKit revolutionized the web and all modern browsers use it.

I use safari because its fast, uses very little battery, and doesn't talk to remote servers when I type something in. Also reader mode is a killer feature, especially on iOS

> iCloud insecure

how so? If you have strong passwords its just as good as any other service. Multi-device 2fa is enabled by default.

Just because some celebrities had their accounts hacked doesn't mean the whole platform is insecure.

>imessage isn't cross platform.
You can send SMS so you can communicate with androids and dumb phones. pretty good deal if you ask me.

>Fedora
>stable

>It's far more stable than garbage piles like Arch or Windows but it's nowhere near Fedora or especially something like Debian

True, but for desktop use its been good enough for me (my up time is 22 days on my iMac)

>Mail app malfunction or freeze once in a while

This has happened to me as well. Not all mac software is bug free but is is generally good enough.

>shit
>crappy
>retarded
You sound very convincing.

>friendly discussion
>Mac VS GNU/linux
pick one please

Linus Torvalds uses it. So does the NSA.

>my up time is 22 days on my iMac
10 days on my MBP. It's going to need to be rebooted soon.

>generally good enough
Not really. I lost what I was typing so now I use a different email client.

> I use a different email client
What do you use now?

>It is e2e encrypted though. Your whole argument basically boils down to "it's not open-sores".
No, it's not. Apple holds the encryption keys. Therefore it's NOT E2E encrypted.

>Kek. Of course not. Most people have absolutely no need for ridiculously impractical sportscars or a gasguzzling penis extender for dudebros that he used to haul four-by-twos that one time 2 years ago. SUVs are just practical cars best fit for the totality of everyday usecases.
I want to you find me someone that would turn those down if they were offered for free to them. Ask them, "Say I were to buy you a new truck, a new Tesla, and a new Lambo, and I would pay all the taxes, pay for the tags, pay for the insurance, pay everything in the shop, and pay to garage them. You get to use them as much or as little as you want, but you can't sell them. Do you want them?" Go on, find one person who would say, "No, I don't need more than a minivan right now, and I am certain that I never will."

uptimes mean nothing unless counted in years
my work windows 7 has a 1.5 months uptime

You and I both know that there's no additional time beyond the literal minute or two of setup.

no. You can have a friendly discussion of the pros and cons of two opposing ideas without devolving into a shitposting flamewar. People like you are a big reason why most of Sup Forums is trash

Thunderbird on both OS X and Fedora. It works well.

Well for some reason it does on OS X. If you leave the machine on for too long it starts lagging and getting slow. Reboots take care of it. I think that clears out files somewhere on boot but I don't know where exactly.

Sorry I forgot itoddlers loved shit and are retarded

>people like me
oh boy are you perceptive
also fuck you

shitposter please go unless you have something constructive to contribute

>If you leave the machine on for too long it starts lagging and getting slow
really ?
never used a mac but I figured they had virtually infinite uptimes as most unixes do

>If you leave the machine on for too long it starts lagging and getting slow

I haven't encountered this problem before

As a DevOps engineer, how would you briefly explain DevOps to a recent Software Engineering student?

Linux user here. Finally a good thread and not one of those OS wars. This is what i think about the points regarding apple:

>great touch pad with gestures
I think is true.

>seamless integration with iPhone and other macs
Well obviously they'll integrate well their own products which is a good thing. On linux try kdeconnect if you want a good integration program with android.

>software suites like Adobe and MS Office
True too. There's a lot of good software on linux but it's true the availability of those programs would boost a lot its adoption.

>iCloud is pretty tight (backups, email, google drive clone)
True, although there's good options for that on linux too. For cloud things try with dropbox or mega. Also for mail and calendar google services are good and there's a lot of alternatives that can be used on mac too of course.

>iMessage desktop client
My favorite messaging program right now is Telegram, you should give it a shot. Sadly most people in my country uses whatsapp so i need that too.

>some games (blizzard for me mostly)
True, linux has right now around 3000 games but it's true that certain companies has never been linux friendly, blizzard and bethesda being important examples. It would be good to have them on our side tho.

>I figured they had virtually infinite uptimes
No, at least not on my machine.

I have. I don't know why it happens. You have to reboot every 2 weeks or so. I try to do it once a week usually.

i have a hackintosh desktop, a macbook and my server runs debian

In my opinion the pros youve listed for linux arent really that worthy, brew is a good enough package manager, customizability is a meme, if you wanted privacy and security youd want to use openbsd or something anyway

>portable+good out of the box battery life
Probably the biggest difference. Apple's operative systems works fine on a limitet subset of hardware but the thing is that apple controls that subset, so most of the hardware that is bundled with an apple OS is also sold by apple, this way they can tailorate it as much as possible for said hardware. The biggest advantage of linux in this sense is that it run practically everywhere (in my own experience), the best part being OOTB (unlike windows) with a few exceptions (like nvidia or broadcom). However there's still hardware vendors that don't cooperate very well with linux so the community needs to create their own drivers and may not be perfect so it may be a hit or miss regarding the battery life. This is something that only can be fixed with a higher marketshare so those vendors will be forced to support linux properly.

It's possible to achieve good battery life even with hardware that is not very linux friendly but not OOTB, it requires to use tools like LTP. The situation has improved a lot, i hope when more computers are shipped with linux this situation may reverse.

DevOps Engineers build tools and automated systems that enable Software engineers to easily and safely develop and deploy software on production computing systems with zero downtime.

These systems typically automate software testing, notifications, logging, code deployments, and if something goes wrong, roll backs.

Its not glamorous work, but it generally pays better than software dev jobs because it requires an intersection of programming and systems skills and not very many people want to do it.

Hope this helps.

>In my opinion the pros youve listed for linux arent really that worthy

I'd have to agree, it was hard for me to find pros desu.

The biggest pros for me are the first two, virtualization and containers, which are only really useful because of my work and don't really apply to the average user.

>customizability is a meme
100% agree if what the default is good.

>whoa dude what if we like remove all the impractical aspects of those cars - will they be more practical than a SUV?
Great argument there, friendo.

Neat explanation, thank you!

Thank you for your contribution user

>On linux try kdeconnect if you want a good integration program with android.

I've never heard of this, sounds intriguing. Integration has always been something thats kept me locked into apple products and services. Learning about other alternatives is a big reason why I made this thread. Thank you

user and I few days ago had a conversation about me running osx in a VM, since I hate apple but want to see what the fuss about the OS is about. My very brief look on torrent sites brought up 0 results. Is the only way to get it seriously though the iTunes store?

You can only download it from the AppStore on a Mac. You might be able to find it online if you look hard enough.

If you know someone with a mac, just use their computer to make a bootable USB

don't since osx works like shit in VM unlike windows and linux

user said it ran fine. Can anyone else confirm or deny this? Why would anyone lie to me?
That is stupid. Luckily I don't have any friends with apple products. What a garbage system. I feel that that reason alone is good enough as to why apple is shit
>Log into our iTunes music library software so you can download an OS.

The AppStore and the iTunes Store are different things

Why would user lie*
Especially since we were having a civil discussion and I was legit interested in trying out the OS. But if it doesn't even work properly, what's the point? I'm not going to drop money just to test it

Oh right. Regardless, an OS isn't an application it's an operating system, at least in my eyes. Maybe I'll stumble across an osx iso in the future one day

>I'm not going to drop money just to test it
Go to an apple store and mess around on some of the computers they have there if you are interested in the OS

Or you could just look harder for an ISO on the internet

>My very brief look on torrent sites brought up 0 results
There are 41 macOS torrents on rutracker.

Yeah maybe I should. But there's a difference between looking at all the fancy gadgets and stuff that it has installed by default and really using it for a day or two.
Like I said, it was brief.