There is people in Sup Forums that actually like X and want Wayland to fail

>there is people in Sup Forums that actually like X and want Wayland to fail

Other urls found in this thread:

github.com/albertlauncher/albert/issues/309
phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Wayland-Network-Transparency
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

>there are people who use X's network separation of client and server, and don't care about gaming performance

>no one ever uses X over SSH
Welcome to Faggotville, population: You.

Enjoy your keylogger.

>what is xwayland

>what are CentOS boxes that aren't getting changed until EOL

I think Wayland is a huge step forward but has a hell of a long way to go before it's usable. Installed on my machine last week and it was laggy, some hardware acceleration driver issues most likely. No screen tearing at all though.

How will screenshots, global hotkeys, and the ability to create macros like xdotool be handled? Is Wayland/Weston going to have an API which pushes events for when a window requests one of these permissions so the user can grant it? I haven't seen any concrete solution to this yet.

Can someone draw me a picture to explain what the fuck x and wayland even do

How is that relevant to my post you dumbass?

Let's start with wayland not being installed there and will never be.

The main difference between X and Wayland is that X works properly. You can say what you want about it being inefficient, but when the alternative is a laggy heap that has major hardware compatibility issues and can't perform basic functions, it's not going to gain traction.

Wayland is a great idea, it's just not ready for general use yet.

github.com/albertlauncher/albert/issues/309
>From my latest irc talk: Wayland does not allow applications registering hotkeys. Wayland devs call this a security mechanism to avoid keyboard sniffing. There seem to be proposals for a hotkey system, but there are not even drafts. I dare to say, that this may take another 5 years or so.

as someone who writes code that has to interface with wayland i can definiately say FUCK WAYLAND X11 IS BETTER FOR EVERYONE (except the poor fuckers that maintain X11)

The ONLY reason wayland exists is because X11 was too hard for diversity hires. wayland is far worse when it comes to the api, at least X11 has 20+ years of hacks and shims to workarround with, wayland on the other hand is a mot mess even after 10 years in.

fuck wayland
fuck systemd
fuck you for pushing this trash onto my workload.

>Wayland devs call this a security mechanism to avoid keyboard sniffing
Jesus H. Christ... Unless they change course on this, or at the very fucking least allow media keys to be global hotkeys, it's going to keep people on X forever.

How hard is it for them to include an OPTION to enable global hotkeys, mark it as a potential security issue, and have it off by default? Or have they fallen for the same remove-all-the-options shit that is plaguing Gnome and most phone apps?

phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Wayland-Network-Transparency

Yes. I like XCB too.

So what?

I fucking love broken compositing

wayland is broken by design
you'll see soon :^)

x11 is broken as a feature

It's all fucking broken. Windows window server on Wine on Linux when?

i want quartz on linux
>smooth steamy macosgaysex cum drippy window server

>The ONLY reason wayland exists is because X11 was too hard for diversity hires
>implying 20+ years of patches upon patches and mediocre hacks is a good thing
>implying that allowing every program to grab every input is a good thing
>implying a lack of vsync and HiDPI is a good thing
>implying the lack of automatic resolution/gamma is a good thing
>implying the lack of multithread is a good thing
>HAHAHA IMMA PROGRAMUR XDDDD
Go LARP somewhere else.

>LARP
Enjoying the site?

my favourite part of x11 forwarding is the lag

Freedesktop.org is fucked no matter which protocol or implementation (i.e. window manager+X/wayland compositor) you use. The answer is simple, only use a servers OS as a server! Want a desktop OS? Use Mac OS + oss (fuck fsf) AND ANY proprietary apps you want! Fuck freetard Linux shite!

Works on my machine.

>implying 20+ years of patches upon patches and mediocre hacks is a good thing
It is when the alternative is a system that dearly needs them but doesn't have them yet.

>implying that allowing every program to grab every input is a good thing
A shitty kludge, but it allows global hotkeys. A better alternative would be a system provided hotkey listener that dispatches events to programs when hotkeys they've registered are pressed. It could have restrictions like only things like F-keys and media keys can be registered with no modifier, to prevent a program registering all keys in order to keylog. But the Wayland team don't seem to be smart enough to think that up, so clearly the best solution is no hotkeys at all.

>implying a lack of vsync and hiDPI is a good thing
HiDPI can be done, it's just that there's too many programs and toolkits that don't do it right, so you can't have a hiDPI system without some programs coming up tiny.

Vsync can be done too, and last I looked Nvidia's driver was doing it. They did a stupid kludge to make it work, but it works.

>implying the lack of automatic resolution/gamma is a good thing
Automatic how? It almost always picks an appropriate resolution for the attached monitor, and then it can change resolutions without restarting.

Gamma is more of a GPU driver setting, and if the driver has it it works. No, that isn't optimal, but a system that works through hacks and kludges is better than one that doesn't work.

Don't run low latency protocols over the internet. It's designed for LAN use and works fairly well if used as intended.

>a system that works through hacks and kludges is better than one that doesn't work.
holy fucking this
not to mention wayland broke everything and installed a redhat monoculture

>Automatic how? It almost always picks an appropriate resolution for the attached monitor, and then it can change resolutions without restarting.
X won't change resolutions or gamma automatically when a program closes, so if a program changes your resolution you must manually change it back.
A misbehaving or malicious program could easily change the resolution and then grab the keyboard input, essentially locking the user and forcing a restart.
Multi-monitor setups with different resolutions and changing resolution on the fly can also be a pain in the ass.
Let's not even mention how retarded the left-click menus are handled by X or how ridiculous the XScreensaver hack to block the screen during suspend is.

If they haven't even got to the stage of dealing with basic features like that, it's only a matter of time before it's overtaken by some Poettering monstrosity.

t. resident Sup Forums arch ricer trying to tell a lecture a software developer

This explains some of my problems.

Not him, but can you elaborate on the problems with Wayland?

...

>A misbehaving or malicious program could easily change the resolution and then grab the keyboard input, essentially locking the user and forcing a restart.
Ctrl+alt+backspace to restart X, or ctrl+alt+F1 and then kill the specific program that's messing with input.

Yeah it's less than optimal, but programs ultimately do need the ability to trap all but a couple reserved OS hotkey combos -- games need to do this. We've already seen how annoying it is to have an easy-to-hit system hotkey that's either hard or impossible to block -- try hitting the Windows key at any time during a game.

And yeah the current situation is not optimal, but it offers a good deal of ability to break out of situations that would otherwise require a reboot.

I don't like X, but I like X better than Wayland.
Wayland's design has been fucked from the start, and they won't get into an acceptable shape for at least 5 years.

I may switch to it then. But right now it's a clusterfuck.

Systemd dependent