What's actually wrong with it?

What's actually wrong with it?

Other urls found in this thread:

internals.rust-lang.org/t/revisiting-rusts-modules/5628
dartlang.org/dart-2.0#strong-mode-and-static-typing
github.com/apple/swift/blob/master/docs/OwnershipManifesto.md
youtube.com/watch?v=Lj1GppqNr8c
sites.google.com/view/energy-efficiency-languages/results
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

The devs are the same founders of BLACKED. You can tell by the logo.

> Put safety above everything which imposes several limitations on you (Even on code which is literally right)
> Only useful with nightly stuff (It's a no-go for serious companies)
> Dozens of crates are a literal meme
> Arcane syntax for newbies
> Created for people who cant explore the deep corner of debuggers and sanitizers for C++, therefore brainlets by definition.
> Mozilla is a disgusting company aligned with far-left faggots.
> Nobody can replace C and C++

So basically it's a language for niggers by niggers?

It's too different to justify itself as a viable lang.
Unlike Go.

Trait based Generics kills it for me.

compiles too slowly
too complex

remove generics and make it go fast and then it would be an A+ language.
remove a bunch of other features and it could be A+++
fix the weirdo module syntax, nobody understands it.

the type safety stuff is a theoretical bonus that doesnt actually translate into real world benefits. You feel real smug about it but you could have written that code x10 faster if you hadnt worried about any of that shit and just made it run.

Rust should have been C, not C++. That's the gist of it.

Ever wonder why no one takes Sup Forums seriously?

I'm 100% certain that you legitimately have cuck fetish

so basically make it like established and dogshit languages instead of improving anything?

yeah. They had a revolutionary, great idea. Really, it was never done successfully / professionally before. NO GC yet memory safe and no manual memory management.
Brilliant, but then they decide to put layers and layers upon cruft and functional bullcrap on top. It's C++ all over again, in a time lapse. I was really excited for Rust but you can barely use this damn thing now. People write insanely complex code in it and you have to wait 30seconds for a moderate codebase on each compile. It's worse than c++ even.

But is it really already time for Rust--?

There's stuff like C2, Nim (which I heard can compile to C), D, etc but I don't really know much about them. Surely someone must've gotten it right?

D hasnt improved in 15 years and they wont start now. C2, Nim etc. I consider mostly as toy languages, they dont understand the value of IDEs and they dont plan to either.
Really, Rust has a great idea with their lifetime system. It just has to be done in a simpler language because lifetimes themselves add quite a bit of extra syntax and complexity, it doesnt work if you have so many other features on top.
I hope there will be a slim and fast Rust2 that will remove all the bloat.
Either with the mrustc compiler which can be adapted more easily at some point or even if Rust fixes their slow builds sometime in the future, ppl could then build wrapper languages just like Typescript over Rust.
Right now I actually think Rust, despite being so shit, is still better than c++ overall because c++ gets shittier almost daily too. You do not want to debug memory exceptions man, it's insane.
It is however NOT better than C, which is what I wanted.

Rust needs something like C++11. A major usability improvement.

It's still young and missing some ergonomic features.
Nothing that can't be fixed. In fact, that's the main focus right now.

>remove generics
And then what? How do you write typesafe data structures and algorithms?
>fix the weirdo module syntax
internals.rust-lang.org/t/revisiting-rusts-modules/5628

>It is however NOT better than C, which is what I wanted.
Looks like you want Go. It's C without segfaults and with some other nice things.

>Looks like you want Go. It's C

except it's not

> And then what? How do you write typesafe data structures and algorithms?

you replace it by an optional type system, just like what Dart has

>an optional type system
Oh you mean the thing they realized was a fucking stupid idea so they fixed it in Dart 2.0?
dartlang.org/dart-2.0#strong-mode-and-static-typing

Rust has two main qualities: safety and no overhead.
You can't have both of those if your types are checked at runtime.

Man, I would really love D but then it has a GC, a shitty GC at that. If automem gest accepted into the stdlib, it'd be amazing.

>remove generics
kill yourself faggot, and go write Go instead

> Put safety above everything which imposes several limitations on you (Even on code which is literally right)
This is false.

> Only useful with nightly stuff (It's a no-go for serious companies)
This is also false in the current state, the most used crates have been moved to stable, i.e. serde, diesel and friends.

> Dozens of crates are a literal meme
Like in every other language, there are meme packages.

> Arcane syntax for newbies
It's not a language made for noobs and retards, like C++.

> Created for people who cant explore the deep corner of debuggers and sanitizers for C++, therefore brainlets by definition.
This is literally retarded.

> Mozilla is a disgusting company aligned with far-left faggots.
This is true, but the number of people working for Mozilla and Rust has been steadily decreasing, it's basically not a problem anymore.

> Nobody can replace C and C++
This is also false.

>compiles too slowly
This is actively being worked on, it's not like C++ is any better.

>too complex
If you're retarded, yes, it's still magnitudes simpler than C++.

>remove generics and make it go fast and then it would be an A+ language.
It's already in the same performance ballpark as C and C++, if you don't like generics you're retarded, go back to C or Go.

>remove a bunch of other features and it could be A+++
Like what? The set of features is minimal and orthogonal.

>fix the weirdo module syntax, nobody understands it.
It takes a day at most to get used to the module system.

>the type safety stuff is a theoretical bonus that doesnt actually translate into real world benefits.
This is simply wrong, unless you're just making CRUD crap that any pajeet could do.

>You feel real smug about it but you could have written that code x10 faster if you hadnt worried about any of that shit and just made it run.
And spend x20 the time debugging, have you ever actually made software?

>Rust should have been C, not C++. That's the gist of it.
It's not trying to be either.

kek

btw not him but I'm this guy You gotta admit that C++'s templates are easier to use than that of Rust

Yeah, that's why people have been waiting for concepts in C++ for a decade.

C++ templates are awful for generics where you want to define any bound, you end up with a soup of std::enable_if and SFINAE abuse.

>C++'s templates are easier to use than that of Rust
Templates are just compile-time duck typing, that's why concepts have been suggested in every C++ revision for the past 10 years.
Rust's generics are actually a part of the type system.

They're much more flexible than Rust's for certain, but good luck deciphering any errors that are spat out.

go away nigger

I'll go away when people stop being wrong about things on the internet.

t. pajeet

...

crates.io are disappointing. There is not way to recognize meme and approved quality packages. The number of downloads is the only measurement and it doesn't work, because it only counts for top-level package, thus core libs that are well made but only ever downloaded as dependency get no points and are mixed with low quality crap.

That is true, but they're working on it. My complaint is they didn't add namespacing, so people just steal good package names and never work on them.

too young

samefag

> Put safety above everything which imposes several limitations on you (Even on code which is literally right)
> This is false.

Borrow Checker is a meme. Kill yourself.

> Only useful with nightly stuff (It's a no-go for serious companies)
>This is also false in the current state, the most used crates have been moved to stable, i.e. serde, diesel and friends.

Its literally the Python 2 vs Python 3 all over again. Stop denying.

> Dozens of crates are a literal meme
>Like in every other language, there are meme packages.

In Rust eco, its literally more than half.
Some of them are even broken.

> Arcane syntax for newbies
> It's not a language made for noobs and retards, like C++.

Then it will remain a niche forever.
Enjoy wasting your time.

> Created for people who cant explore the deep corner of debuggers and sanitizers for C++, therefore brainlets by definition.
> This is literally retarded.

No, it isnt. I've seen a lot of "debug-print" faggots.


> Nobody can replace C and C++
> This is also false.

LE REWRITE IN RUST XDD
No you cant.

Oh boy I sure couldn't wait for this thread to show up again.

>Its literally the Python 2 vs Python 3 all over again. Stop denying.
Nightly is backwards compatible with Stable. What the fuck are you on about?

>I've seen a lot of "debug-print" faggots.
That's actually proving the point. You don't need "debug-print" if you can't even compile code that doesn't work.

Everything interesting in the language has yet to be stabilized.

>Hey guys, libcore is totally stable
>Wait, you wanted to make actual applications with it? Sorry, you can't do that without nightly because lang_items aren't stable.

Rust is an embedded language.
Embedded languages are parasites.
Kill it with fire

>Mozilla is a disgusting company aligned with far-left faggots.
as a far left faggot i am here to tell you liberal!=left

>Borrow Checker is a meme. Kill yourself.
Is that why both Swift and C++ are trying to implement them?

They are?

yup
github.com/apple/swift/blob/master/docs/OwnershipManifesto.md
youtube.com/watch?v=Lj1GppqNr8c

>remove generics
Rob Pike go home, you're drunk again

Nu-males swear by it. Normalfags love it. Redditors shill it. It might be great but I doubt these subhumans would have a good taste. Stop liking what normalfags like is a rule I live by.

>reeee stop liking what people like
What a pathetic loser

>Borrow Checker is a meme. Kill yourself.
It's not a meme, it works, and it has also been formally proven. If you enjoy
debugging memory related bugs and race conditions, then you might have a
problem.

>Its literally the Python 2 vs Python 3 all over again. Stop denying.
Are you drunk? Nightly is stable with unstable features available, it's not
some kind of magical separation.

>In Rust eco, its literally more than half. Some of them are even broken.
Guess you haven't tried to use that many libraries in other languages then.

>Then it will remain a niche forever. Enjoy wasting your time.
I have a job writing Rust, I don't mind if it stays niche since I'll always
have a job.

>No, it isnt. I've seen a lot of "debug-print" faggots.
Like in every other language, you can debug Rust with GDB, you don't need
sanitazers because the language isn't retarded.

>LE REWRITE IN RUST XDD
>No you cant.
Replacing doesn't imply rewriting, there's code that will never be rewritten,
but people will start making projects in other languages, that's how it works.

>race conditions
DATA race conditions

C++ is a fucking nightmare to use.
Thank you Rust for being that nice, modern alternative to Java and C#

See, that's where your reading comprehension comes into play. I'm not telling anyone to stop liking anything. I was merely stating that due to the destructive nature of the normalfags, I prefer to not get into things they like or prefer.

>a cell phone company and a literally who are trying to implement borrow checker

please come back when people who matter are doing it.

3/10 damage control. Give me the last (you)

yeah, Apple, who the fuck ever heard of them?

It want to be everything. A systems programming language and a general purpose language. You cannot have both.

You are not really a dev, are you? Bjarne doesn't dev C++ anymore, my child.

90% of the new ideas come from people you personally don't know because they aren't media celebrities

>I am not a meme normalfag hater, I just do not like things normalfags hate.

Go back to Sup Forums.

Reputation for being unstable.
Community is overrun by web developers and SJWs.
No standard and only one reference implementation, IIRC.
Somewhat redundant, since Ada already exists.

Are you experiencing a stroke ? Read your post again

>No standard
Do you get your information from 9gag?

ohohoho #rekt hehehehe xdddd
how will he ever recover

>community is overrun by web developers and SJWs
there it is. he just added the other three statements to not seem like a total jackass, but don't be fooled, he and others like him only hate Rust because of it's perceived userbase

This is the extent of rust shitposters

>Reputation for being unstable.
When it was unstable, after 1.0 there have been no breakages, at all.

>Community is overrun by web developers and SJWs.
This is also false, I'd say the biggest community so far is the game
development one.

The web stuff is barely starting to surface and there's no big framework yet,
also web developers can't actually make programming languages.

If you look at who the SJWs and webdevs in the Rust community are you'll notice all they do is documentation and evangelism, and no actual programming in Rust or language design.

>No standard and only one reference implementation, IIRC.
No shit, language design by comitee is awful, the language design by community
way is much better and more flexible.

The "standard" is the bunch of accepted RFCs, and there is at least one
alternative compiler that I know of (written in C++).

>Somewhat redundant, since Ada already exists.
Completely different from Ada, and nobody uses Ada.

No, this is the test of your own medicine

>"Shit! He pointed out my retardation! Uhhhh.... Point out grammar errors! HA! That will show him!"
This is were logical conversation ends and stupidity begins. You know what I meant, ignored it, and focused an irrelevant data. You are a dumbass. Kill yourself.

All those reasons are related. It's too new.

>When it was unstable, after 1.0 there have been no breakages, at all.
Are things still being constantly added?

>If you look at who the SJWs and webdevs in the Rust community are you'll notice all they do is documentation and evangelism, and no actual programming in Rust or language design.
Fair enough.

>No shit, language design by comitee is awful, the language design by community way is much better and more flexible.
Design by community is design by committee. But yes, I was wrong.

>Completely different from Ada, and nobody uses Ada.
The DoD uses Ada and not that many people use Rust. Remember that the people who only do documentation and evangelism don't count.

It's not Stainless Steel.
Now that would be a reliable, clean language.

I would use Rust solely because it has a standard project management tool. C or C++ does not and will never be able to fix this.

However Rust needs a massive refactoring. As suggested. I couldn't agree more.

>Are things still being constantly added?

Yes, added, that's keyword. It's all backwards compatible back to version 1.0.

The only reasoning for non-backward compatible changes are soundness holes,
like in the case of scoped threads.

>Design by community is design by committee. But yes, I was wrong.

It's very different, only recently has the C++ commitee started giving a shit
about what the community says and allowing people to attend the meetings and
give input.

>The DoD uses Ada and not that many people use Rust. Remember that the people who only do documentation and evangelism don't count.

Even the DoD has stopped using Ada from what I recall, they mostly use a subset
of C these days.

And usage of Rust is increasing so fast it's unreal, companies are actually
starting to hire Rust people, Amazon, Dropbox and others that I can't recall.

There was a recent post on r/rust about companies hiring for Rust and there are
some other big names in there.

Hell, I have a job writing Rust right now.

It's not Lisp.

The syntax grows on you. It really does. and do you guys really want a language that has been ultra-simplified for the masses of normies to come flooding in?

>let's be obscure for the sake of avoiding normies
>REEEEEEEEEEEEE
so this is the average rust programmer

The syntax is unambiguous at least, the only thing I found peculiar about Rust syntax was the one for lifetimes, the rest is normal if you come from C++.

Stainless Steel is too long. It should just be called SS or stylized "ᛋᛋ"

t. Autistic

No, the average Rust programmer is: we need to make this more accessible so Shantiqua can have my job.

do you want to pull a javascript or ruby and drag a bunch of retarded san fransisco hipsters who care more about their twitter feeds than their code?

difficulty of use has always been a great way of keeping mouthbreathers away

whats the difference between a template and a generic?

Templates are literally templates, you have some code and the type you pass gets replaced in the code you wrote. You can kind of simulate type bounds by using std::enable_if and other SFINAE trickery.

Generic doesn't mean anything, templates are a way of making generic code.

Implementation usually. A template typically emits different code based on the template parameters while a generic just checks types at compiletime and erases them to use void* or equivalent at runtime. Of course it depends on your language though.

>println! ... ! srsly?
>mut
>#[derive(Clone, Copy)]

ridiculous piece of shit, nothing gonna beat C, only retards forget to free

> Created for people who cant explore the deep corner of debuggers and sanitizers for C++, therefore brainlets by definition.

kek you need debuggers? git gud

! for macros is good though. Didn't D templates teach you anything?

making all variable declarations constants by default and mutability opt-in is great language design

! makes it obvious that it's a macro.
Mutable bindings are less common than constant bindings. It makes more sense for default to be const.
derive is a great way to avoid writing boilerplate.

>not using a debugger
I assume you're trolling but in case you're not, you should start using one

>mut
immutable by default is better

>#[derive(Clone, Copy)]
move by default is better

Pascal is really a surprise.

how can I trust that image if Java is not in the 3rd set of data?

It's a cropped image of full results. You can check below

sites.google.com/view/energy-efficiency-languages/results

How so? Pascal isn't too far removed from C.

They are in the size of your e-dick if you program in them.

>! makes it obvious that it's a macro.
Why would you want it to be obvious you're using a macro? Doesn't that defeat the point of using macros?

Because then you get Lisp, where everyone's codebase is a different language.

Macros can do magical, unexpected and expensive things.
That should be clear to the reader.

And Lisp is one of the most enduring languages in existence.

Classes can do magical, unexpected, and expensive things.
Functions can do magical, unexpected, and expensive things.
Mathematical expressions can do magical, unexpected, and expensive things.
It all really depends on your definitions of 'magical', 'unexpected', and 'expensive'.

Fuck off to your containment thread, you functional programming cuck.

Common Lisp isn't even a functional language, you dumb bastard. The hash tables and vectors in the standard library are both imperative, Common Lisp has an assignment statement with arbitrary lvalues, and several of the built in flow control forms are only useful for their side effects or require side effects to be useful.

That doesn't mean it's a good thing.

Popular things are popular for a reason. :^)