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Welcome to /fglt/ - Friendly GNU/Linux Thread.
Users of all levels are welcome to ask questions about GNU/Linux and share their experiences.
*** Please be civil, notice the "Friendly" in every Friendly GNU/Linux Thread ***
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If you would like to try out GNU/Linux you can do one of the following: 0) Install a GNU/Linux distribution of your choice in a Virtual Machine. 1) Use a live image and to boot directly into the GNU/Linux distribution without installing anything. 2) Dual boot the GNU/Linux distribution of your choice along with Windows or macOS. 3) Go balls deep and replace everything with GNU/Linux.
Resources: Your friendly neighborhood search engine.
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Don't know what to look for? $ apropos %something%
I am trying to get a full terminal environment so I search for alternative applications that work in either text only interface, ncurses, or the framebuffer You are welcome to join.
Christian Butler
I installed DeepinOS on a 16GB partition from windows. This was a month ago and since then I've been using it as my daily driver. I just filled up my linux partition with files and shit. How can I expand my partition for linux without having to go to windows? I need something like Disk Management from windows.
Thanks
Chase Ramirez
Gparted.
James Nelson
>I have planned a whole desktop environment for this What do you mean by this?
Liam Williams
You may not remember but I have posted before things like a recipe for screenshot and screen recording on the tty, also some tweaks to have a window manager by using gnu screen and fbterm. I have more stuff on my sight.
Adrian Hughes
Fixed.
Benjamin Sanders
So this desktop environment would be in the framebuffer?
Mason Miller
Fantastic.
Jordan Moore
Have you heard of GNU Emacs?
Joshua Martin
Yes, everything in the framebuffer.
I know how to make emacs(or other application) be a window manager, but needs other stuff, like a video player.
Kayden Gray
Emacs has emms. Plus, exwm contains all external gui applications in its own buffer. If you don't want to run x, it would be a lot easier and a lot more cohesive to just write a frontend for Emacs than making your own desktop suite and all that would entail.
Joseph Allen
I know about exwm, and I am not writing anything, the tools are already there. Is just a matter of configuration.
David Stewart
What are you using as a window manager? Or are you just going to use virtual desktops?
Leo Gutierrez
GNU Screen (or any multiplexer for that matter), also there is (j)fbterm for fonts and even wallpaper.
Nolan Parker
>Fixed. FSF are elitists who say the user is a bumbling idiot who doesn't know the difference between the kernel and the rest of the system and needs to be constantly reminded on who deserves credit, though.
Samuel Jackson
...
Jose Nguyen
That could be said of just opensourcelets. If you want to go even further, you could say that all GNU/Linux users, regardless of their perspective are inherently elitist because they're using an operating system that isn't a fully realized version of UNIX in favor of full featured-ness, which purports that their operating system's features surmount the endeavor for a totally UNIX world.
Blake Evans
Sure, but the point of that image was treating the users as idiots.
Jeremiah Nguyen
>try Linux on my desktop (had only previously used it for NAS and projects) >seems okay >"Updates are available" >oh boy here we go, [yes] >everything downloads >window disappears >nothing happens >try to look through virtual desktops to see if it's hidden >it's not >the OS fucking updated without rebooting WHAT MAGIC IS THIS
Gavin Carter
You probably don't use encapsulation/abstraction/etc when coding. Cancer.
Levi Barnes
Welcome to the real world user
Jack Bennett
Are there any distro that installs the basics (maybe a simple window manager) with no extra applications?
It seems like distros either have a GUI installer and comes with everyting (e.g. Ubuntu) or you have manually do everything (e.g. Arch). Is there something more in the middle?
Joseph Rivera
apparently windows can't edit/update files in use so it has to reboot for updates
linux is so far ahead of the game when it comes to updates it's not even funny
Christopher Hill
Devuan has a network installer iso with a minimal system and Ubuntu has a server flavor.
Lucas Gonzalez
I think you only need to reboot if you update certain drivers or the kernel.
Connor Mitchell
*GNU/Linux
Easton Flores
Not even that. You can reboot the kernel without shutting down the machine. This is what kernel developers due. The issue is that, in not rebooting the machine, you aren't reinitializing the daemons and other processes that are affected by a new kernel.
Asher Morales
What? What? Literally all distros can be installed with a stage3, including Debian; otherwise, they usually come with a minimal install option.
Brandon Brooks
Is it always worth installing LTS Ubuntu if you want stability? Don't know what to put on my ThinkPad, thinking Xubuntu 16.04. I can still update Kernel though right?
Robert Rivera
Use Debian if you want stability. And why would you need to update the kernel (beyond security patches) if your drivers work sufficiently?
Nicholas Perez
youtube.com/watch?v=o7baBEz8srU Is anyone else sick of people like Lunduke and that balding Arizonian linguist who fetishize cli applications as though there's something inherently better about them? Talk about a bunch of closeted Emacs users. Vi users in general who insist on using a tilingwm and a bunch of text application are closeted Emacs users.
Nathan Murphy
Is anyone else sick of contrarian like the post above and the other shitposter who fetishize windows-like bloat as though cli applications can't be better? Talk about a bunch of closeted fags.
Connor Cruz
Is anyone sick of the contrarians like in the post above and the other non-friendly kusoposters who think that the previous poster's argument was that cli applications are always consistently worse than other applications? Talk about closeted meanies.
Liam Lopez
List of posters that should be euthanized:
This program is free software: you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by the Free Software Foundation, either version 3 of the License, or (at your option) any later version.
This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU General Public License for more details.
You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License along with this program. If not, see .
>people who ask systemd related questions like "how do i replace it", but who don't even know what systemd is >people who adopt opinions about things they have no knowledge of, just to appear smart (example any post about systemd) >people who don't know what a desktop environment is and who post things like "i don't use a de, i use i3" >people who think that gnome and gtk are the same >people who force themselves to use cli and tui programs to appear cool >people who don't know what a distribution is (they think a distribution has a "look") >people who ask "debian or linux mint?", but they won't install or use either, they just want to feel cool by asking
Patches welcome.
Kevin Bell
>Is anyone else sick of people like Lunduke and that balding Arizonian linguist who fetishize cli applications as though there's something inherently better about them?
That's not the message I get from their videos, particularly from Luke Smith's video:
They are focused on the portability, efficiency and low system usage of CLI applications vs. GUI applications.
Christian Jenkins
>people who don't know what a desktop environment is and who post things like "i don't use a de, i use i3" A desktop environment is an implementation of the desktop metaphor that includes a suite of applications and configurations in order to supplement those applications. The largest benefit of desktop environments is deployability and accessibility. So whereas a window manager is an inherent part of a desktop environment, and i3 in particular can be used in conjunction with a de such as xfce, it is not, in itself, a desktop environment, and that statement is valid, albeit presumptuous if you think about it in the context that you're probably thinking of. >>people who ask systemd related questions like "how do i replace it", but who don't even know what systemd is You could have just stopped at the first sentence, and people would have agreed with you. >>people who force themselves to use cli and tui programs to appear cool Okay, for the record, when I made that post, it was under the premise that there's nothing inherently wrong with cli programs in the like. Or even the fascination with a text-only work paradigm, as with the guy who wants to make a framebuffer-only de. I was just a little bit peeved at people like Luke Smith and many other people who are so clearly fascinated with creating an amalgam of text-only programs--enough to where he made some superficial hacks to Vim to where it sort of nearly emulated an IDE, which was hilarious and cute, although not practical--but are generally ignorant or disdainful towards Emacs, which is a popular outlet for people with that interest, like myself.
Landon Nelson
Homophobia is NOT COOL. This is a frenly thread. FRENLY!!!
Kayden Watson
>and that statement is valid, albeit presumptuous if you think about it in the context that you're probably thinking of.
>bro, just use a wm >installs 10 other utility programs which every "desktop environment" has >implies that "desktop environments" don't have window managers
Charles Cox
>>installs 10 other utility programs which every "desktop environment" has Not necessarily. You're making a lot of assumptions--such as the fact that most software isn't written a project like GNOME or KDE. >>implies that "desktop environments" don't have window managers Desktop environments have window managers. They're an inherent part of the desktop metaphor.
Camden Bell
>MacOS is kinda sorta Unix-ey
Carson Reed
Why are you intentionally arguing against strawmans? And who are you quoting?
Nicholas Anderson
Just looking at that guy's hairline gives me the fantods.
Nicholas Gray
>Desktop environments have window managers. They're an inherent part of the desktop metaphor. Tell that to the idiots who claim otherwise in these threads.
>who are you quoting? Anonymous posters who posted those exact things and then I imply the scenarios which happened after that. Is this your first day on Sup Forums?
Gabriel Young
By that logic, GNU/Linux is still less elitist than Windows.
Tyler Hughes
Calm down.
Ayden Adams
Why is it GNU/Linux instead of just Linux? Linux is the kernel, which defines the OS. GNU is just a collection of utilities which can be used within the OS.
James Martin
Because autism. The fact of the matter is that you can replace the GNU shit and all your installed executables will still run. GNU-fags would have us believe that replacing the GNU shit suddenly turns it into a different operating system.
Juan Long
The kernel doesn't define the OS. There's your first mistake. Come back again when you have a better premise. It's almost like GNU is more than just the software itself.
Henry Collins
>Why is it GNU/Linux instead of just Linux? Linux is the kernel, which defines the OS. GNU is just a collection of utilities which can be used within the OS. Because Stallman and his buddies hate how Linus took all their thunder.
Brody Rogers
>The kernel doesn't define the OS. There's your first mistake. Come back again when you have a better premise. Yes it does. Come back again when you have a better premise.
The fact is that if you eliminate GNU from a computer and replace it's functionality with other software all the same installed executables still run. The operating system doesn't change just because you swapped out the GNU utilities for some other software. On the other hand, if you swap out the Linux kernel for say the kFreeBSD kernel, it is actually a different operating system and the installed executables will not run natively and must be recompiled.
Logan Barnes
No it doesn't. Come back again when you have a better premise.
The irony is that your argument would be more truthful if I swapped GNU with Linux.
Josiah Edwards
Good argument. You totally convinced me that Alpine Linux is a completely different operating system than other Linux distros.
Zachary Rivera
Wanted to try emacs after learning vim, so I downloaded spacemacs. The tab button is weird though, how do I indent stuff? It doesn't do anything in insert mode.
C-h k gives me TAB (translated from ) runs the command indent-for-tab-command (found in global-map), which is an interactive compiled Lisp function.
It is bound to TAB.
(indent-for-tab-command &optional ARG)
Indent the current line or region, or insert a tab, as appropriate. This function either inserts a tab, or indents the current line, or performs symbol completion, depending on ‘tab-always-indent’. The function called to actually indent the line or insert a tab is given by the variable ‘indent-line-function’.
If a prefix argument is given, after this function indents the current line or inserts a tab, it also rigidly indents the entire balanced expression which starts at the beginning of the current line, to reflect the current line’s indentation.
In most major modes, if point was in the current line’s indentation, it is moved to the first non-whitespace character after indenting; otherwise it stays at the same position relative to the text.
If ‘transient-mark-mode’ is turned on and the region is active, this function instead calls ‘indent-region’. In this case, any prefix argument is ignored.
What am I doing wrong?
Daniel Parker
Okay, fine. Here's an argument. It's not as though we've had this same exact discussion over and over again with no progression, but here: >The fact is that if you eliminate GNU from a computer and replace it's(sic) functionality with other software all the same installed executables still run. This is only true for Unix operating systems. You allude to FreeBSD in the latter half of your paragraph, and, ironically, BSD is proof that even in a Unix paradigm, different userlands aren't necessarily compatible with the same binaries unless you use a compatibility layer. Actually, that's true 100% of the time. Even different distributions can't execute the same binaries, but to be respectful and not put words into your mouth, I know that what you meant was that similar software is easily portable, and, again, this is a quality of the Unix model, more than just the delineation between kernel and userland, although that is a Unix construct. >The operating system doesn't change just because you swapped out the GNU utilities for some other software. On the other hand, if you swap out the Linux kernel for say the kFreeBSD kernel, it is actually a different operating system and the installed executables will not run natively and must be recompiled. Your argument stems from the fact that GNU was ported to Linux and not vice versa. You're actually somewhat (but not wholly) mistaken; the kernel does, in fact, have to be altered in order to work with the userland, much in the same way that software has to be ported from one operating system to another.
Ultimately, the true hero here is Unix. Linux is a Unix kernel for a Unix operating system, GNU. In using the GNU name in GNU/Linux, you're actually acknowledging the legacy of Unix along with GNU. It was because of Unix that GNU and Linux could be consummated, and to nix GNU would be remiss, because you'd be failing to address the true progenitor of our entire ecosystem as a whole.
Jaxson Hall
Did you make this post from alpine? Pray tell, how did you get X to run, or did you purchase a Sup Forums pass? You should probably just learn Emacs. Unfortunately, Spacemacs is ultimately just a superficial augmentation, and you need a deeper understanding of Emacs to appreciate (or not appreciate) how Spacemacs bridges Emacs with vi emulators. Well, that and the fact that Spacemacs is an amorphous mess. Sad but true.
Ethan Rodriguez
>Even different distributions can't execute the same binaries That's not true. Given that any shared libraries which the program depends on are present, the binaries will absolutely run.
>Linux is a Unix kernel for a Unix operating system Linux literally stands for "Linux Is Not UniX"
>and to nix GNU would be remiss, because you'd be failing to address the true progenitor of our entire ecosystem as a whole. That seems irrelevant when there are Linux distributions which do not include GNU software.
Parker Gray
>That's not true. Given that any shared libraries which the program depends on are present, the binaries will absolutely run. To amend my delted post: "Given that any shared libraries which the program depends on are present, the binaries will absolutely run." An important distinction which proves nothing, because, again, not all libraries are present on different distributions and especially other operating systems. >Linux literally stands for "Linux Is Not UniX" Show me where that's been said, and I'll believe you. >That seems irrelevant when there are Linux distributions which do not include GNU software. If they don't have GNU software in them, and they don't use the GPL or are associated with GNU in any way, such as with Android (minus the GPL, but that's a pretty negligible fact, and I'm not trying to be sleazy here), then I suppose they wouldn't be called GNU/Linux. Okay, fine. Alpine is not GNU/Linux. It's simply a distribution of Linux. Ubuntu is a GNU/Linux distribution. You're perfectly right, distributions that don't use GNU shouldn't be called GNU/Linux.
Tyler Evans
I don't have the time to learn emacs, this is really the only issue that came up with spacemacs so I just want to solve it and go back to programming.
Jaxson Lee
>But that's untrue. Not all libraries are present on different distributions and especially other operating systems. Install them then. If you are installing an application, it is a given that you are installing it's dependencies also. I use Arch Linux and sometimes encounter issues with games on Steam that are tested only with Ubuntu. The solution is to install the shared libraries the program depends on. This doesn't mean I am no longer using Arch Linux because I installed some shared libraries which differ from the default shipped software.
>Show me where that's been said, and I'll believe you. Okay I looked into it and that probably isn't what it stands for officially. I'll concede that point.
>You're perfectly right, distributions that don't use GNU shouldn't be called GNU/Linux. I would take it a step further and say that the lack of GNU software does not make it a different operating system either.
Gavin Thomas
I've created an ipset list using ipset create blocklist hash:net
and adding ips to it using ipset add blocklist X.X.X.X
But when i go to add the ipset list to iptables with iptables -I INPUT -m set --match-set blocklist src -j DROP
It says iptables: No chain/target/match by that name
Am i missing a command somewhere?
John Sanchez
Added thought: you said that the kernel defines the OS. That's actually not a bad sentiment, but I disagree with you in saying that its the kernel that defines the operating system. The compiled kernels that projects like Debian, Ubuntu, and Fedora distribute are in fact all different, with different, sometimes proprietary modules pulled in as well, so, even there, you can see there that there isn't any universal Linux among distributions whose unique attributes would define a distribution--on its own. But the cumulative alterations of a bunch of different software, as well as the introduction of some is what supplements the operating system. What is the defining part of Debian GNU/Linux? Debian. The project itself is the part that supplements GNU/Linux as an operating system. So, first and foremost, it should be Debian that's cited, not GNU nor Linux. >Install them then. If you are installing an application, it is a given that you are installing it's dependencies also. I use Arch Linux and sometimes encounter issues with games on Steam that are tested only with Ubuntu. Is that an inherent quality of the kernel? >I would take it a step further and say that the lack of GNU software does not make it a different operating system either. Is Android not different than Debian just because it has a different userland?
Joshua Jenkins
Holy shit, this has to be the fifth time you posted in these threads. Are you okay, user? Are you a ghost trapped in limbo? Do we need to exorcise /fglt/?
Eli Roberts
>you aren't reinitializing the daemons and other processes that are affected by a new kernel. kexec You're lying
Benjamin Long
Am I?
Adam Reyes
How do I open GRUB boot menu? Is pic related it? Been trying shift after POST, but this is all I get. Is this the wrong menu, or do I need to change some config options on the .iso to force GRUB?
Adrian Jones
>The compiled kernels that projects like Debian, Ubuntu, and Fedora distribute are in fact all different, with different, sometimes proprietary modules pulled in as well, so, even there, you can see there that there isn't any universal Linux among distributions whose unique attributes would define a distribution--on its own. But they are still all binary compatible. If they modify the kernel so radically that binary compatibility is lost, then it is no longer the same operating system.
>Is that an inherent quality of the kernel? It is an inherent quality of the kernel that it is compatible with your binaries given that all it's dependencies are present. If you swap out the kernel for a different one (kFreeBSD, Hurd, Darwin, etc...) it will not be compatible with the same binaries regardless of whether the dependencies are present. Whether or not GNU utilities are present doesn't really have any impact on this.
>Is Android not different than Debian just because it has a different userland? The thing that makes Android a different operating system is that it uses a modifed version of the Linux kernel which is not binary compatible. If the kernel is modifed so radically that it is no longer binary compatible then it is a different operating system. I will say though, that I have not ever tried Android x86. If it turns out that Android x86 is binary compatible with other x86 Linux distros then I would say it is still a Linux operating system and that Android is just the name of the distribution.
I think I understand now.. can I replace GNU with Islam?
Nolan Cook
Running it on VM, doesn't really work. Any way to manually configure the ISO to allow this? Possible that the timeout value is 0 and GRUB menu just gets skipped?
Henry Cox
autism
Jaxon Brown
what do you need to access that for?
Blake Adams
I want to try loading a custom initrd script through GRUB, but cannot get the menu out to select the option when running in VM.
Lucas Howard
autism
Austin Wright
It's meant to piss off open-sourcelets like yourself. Ignore the other conversation; the reason the FSF insists on calling GNU/Linux GNU/Linux isn't justified in practical terms, because--and I wouldn't expect an open-sourcelet like you to understand--it acknowledges the ethical significance of GNU/Linux.
Colton Barnes
Installed Debian recently. Each time I install the display drivers the GUI stops working and won't launch. What do?
Sebastian Lee
Install gentoo, no joke. Debian is a buggy piece of unstable shit. The "stable" in debian means "doesn't change", including the bugs, which makes it easy for server admins to patch something and make sure it stays patched. However it's unsuitable for every purpose as a result.
Angel Miller
Install the display drivers correctly?
Gabriel Davis
but my laptop is too puny for gentoo
Dominic Jenkins
then try ubuntu
James White
Cross compile.
Owen Nelson
Slackware it is
What way did you install them and what card?
Carter Kelly
GNU would be nothing without linux. Everyone would be using proprietary software on Windows if it weren't for linux. Discuss.
Isaiah Cox
It's not, so long as it's been made in the last 8 years.
Connor Parker
It's a sub-$200 Chromebook
Thomas Sanders
saved
Julian Jenkins
Then you're in a bit of a pickle. You can always try clover, though, it's gentoo with binhost preset.
Aaron Moore
no because gnu would have finished hurd. the only reason it isnt worked on too much now is because they already have a kernel to use
Nicholas Wood
What is stopping me from switching GNU and Linux around? The GPL was the only reason Linus freed his kernel in the first place.
Wyatt Perez
A shitty, broken kernel though. We need hurd.
Daniel Thomas
Again, Gentoo is used on embedded systems all the time. You fucking cross compile. That doesn't change the situation in the slightest.
Ian Morris
who's to say he has an alternate computer to compile on?
Jose Morales
I-it's not broken, that's just Unix! Microkernel? More like Memekernel! Because it's a meme! Amirite, guys? Guys? Right? . . . kernel . . . meme . . . not true Unix . . . use freeBSD . . . lisp lost . . . GNU's not my userland . . .
Lincoln Ross
>want to copy text >ctrl+shift+c >ff inspector starts loading how to wake up
Ian Cook
Who says they don't? And did you just assume their gender?
Liam Perry
baka did you just assume they dont get offended by gender neutral pronouns?
Ian Reyes
My computers are sub-$200 Chromebook/nothing else My pronouns are private, thank you very much
