/Minimalism/ Thread

Old thread didn't have guidelines

For suggestions on programs that aren't bloat refer to suckless.org/rocks

Acceptable GNU/Linux distributions that aren't bloat

Gentoo
Debian(NET ISO)
Void(Hipster but werks)
Alpine(Pretty damn minimal)

Another protip to keep your system minimal is to keep your package count lower than 999.

Get recommendations to see if your system is bloat or not
>OS
>DE/WM
>Video/Music player
>Image viewer
>File Manager
>Text Editor
>Shell
>Web Browser
>Terminal

Protip: If you aren't comfortable with the terminal or aren't proficient with GNU/Linux this thread isn't for you.

If you feel this thread gets a little autistic, read this quote made by an user from the previous thread.
"Minimalism = A very good thing"
Too much of something is never good."

Other urls found in this thread:

www-zeuthen.desy.de/~friebel/unix/lesspipe.html
repology.org/metapackage/sandy/packages
st.suckless.org/patches/scrollback/
github.com/salcedo/st-bloated
twitter.com/AnonBabble

>urxvt

please stop spreading this meme. it's so ancient it's not funny. xfce terminal is the superior choice in terms of features

Working on a full terminal terminal based environment to use in my server, low end machines also benefit.
I search for alternative applications that work in either text only interface, ncurses, or the framebuffer. I am not writing anything the tools are already there, is just a matter of configuration. For example the window manager replacement I use is GNU Screen but there are other alternatives like Twin or any terminal multiplexer of your linking, also fbterm to use fonts on tty and set a wallpaper. Also for spreadsheets there is slsc, for word processor (not text editor) there is WordGrinder that can edit ODF files.

I made MPlayer work! Can now watch videos on the TTY Currently tweaking a window manager and framebuffer resolution.

Anybody doing something similar wants to join?

>DE/WM
>minimal
just use tmux or screen like a normal person

>Minimal
>GUI
>Window Manager
>full grown editor: VIM
>GUI Webbrowser like FF

So Minimalism iwth GUI would be a better name.
There I'd be with you (and interested).
dwm is extremly elitist and there are even smaller WMs than that - something called monster or something - or just use i3 if you are not an elitist C haxx0r.

Debian I'd be very careful with being minimal, since their binaries are (cause they have to be) "bloated" as fuck, so only gentoo/funtoo/slackware and a little bit arch (AUR) might fit there (and something more exotic ofc).

st is kinda nice but a very good example that minimal != fast.

>unicode
no

this isn't 2003, every single terminal emulator has unicode support now

I understand why you say their binaries are bloated, I share the opinion, but I would remark they patch a lot and not necessarily to upstream, although I could be wrong. Those patches made everything more stable, also kinda limited on the choices.

>tfw want to be minimalist but need windows for school

am i insane to try to develop in visual studio inside a windows vm? how glacial will my compile times be?

They have good to excellent (but also badsee SSL?) security patching.
Yeah, it is a good distro for being stable and it is minimalistic with the program set it comes preinstalled (not even gcc nor sudo come preinstalled).
There are just popular and more minimalistic - and yet not ultra minimalistic - other options fitting the philosophy a little better.

>firefox
>minimalist

It really shouldn't affect your compile times. I do 100% of my development on virtual cores on my employer's Google cloud compute account and one of my VMs is Windows based. It's really not an issue. I notice absolutely no difference between the virtual cores and when I used to do all of my work on servers in the building

>OS
Devuan
>Video Player
mplayer
>Music Player
MOC
>File Manager
SpaceFM
>Shells
Bash
>Window manager
Ratpoison
>Image viewer
sxiv (more minimal than FEH but can do GIF)
>Text editors
Vim
>Web browser
Firefox
>Terminal
xterm

alias less="more"

>OS
guixSD
>De/Window manager
tmux
>Music/Video player
mpd/ncmpcpp, mpv with framebuffer
>Image viewer
fbi
>File manager
coreutils
>Text Editors
Vim
>Shells
zsh
>Web Browsers
links
>Terminal
tty

i guess zsh and vim aren't really minimal, but we

>not seeing ranger mentionned yet

u guys for real?

>Another protip to keep your system minimal is to keep your package count lower than 999.
How is this a protip if it depends on the packaging/bundling strategy used by the distro?
Not attacking, only curious. Also 999 seems an arbitrary number like any other, how did we decide on this limit?

Also I'm the user using i3 on a bloated distro because of multi monitor workflow.

You are right for the most part, but until I figure how to do automount I won't fully switch. Also ranger is far from being the perfect file manager but is close.

Unicode is not the opposite of minimalism, my dear retarded tripfag.

Source: Plan 9.

>ssh considered harmful
now i know for certain that none of these minimalist retards actually do anything with their computers

>how did we decide on this limit?
I did, kek. Idk. Just has to be under a 1000

Stop posting this you cunt, this is tooo autistic

This comes from hate for unix terminal. All the termcap and terminfo, ncurses (which is quite bad, compare it to saner alternatives) and all the madness, ssh takes 2 distinct configurations and have to emulate one on the other side. I don't think this was targeted against the crypto part at all.

fim vs fbi? I lean to fbi personally as it comes with fbgs for PDF files.

i'd even go as far as to say that more packages are actually more minimalistic, ie have loads of tools that do just one thing and do it well

Quality over quantity

Reminder that "Worse is Better" isn't about minimalism. Completeness matters.

well, yeah
but instead of having a web-browser that displays images and plays audio and video, why not have a web-browser that only render html/css and use external programs for these things, which would be 3 or 4 programs instead of one, but it would be 3 or 4 programs that do only one thing

Yeah, that's more or less what he said.

less is insecure. It literally dumps a .lesshst file in your home directory and does all kinds of logging.

>Completeness matters.
underrated

There isn't a full featured ebook viewer for the terminal yet. There is fbpdf (pdf, djvu -through djvulibre-, epub, xps, and cbz), fimgs (PostScript, pdf, cbr, rar, cbz, zip, dvi), JFBView (pdf, Table of Contents (TOC) viewer, Interactive text search), CHMLib (can be used to view chm), catdoc (xls2csv, catppt, wordview, to view MS Office documents). All those either cover different formats, have good but not shared features or have no single wrapper program to form an unified ebook viewer. We need something that combines all of the above.

shouldn't be such a big deal to write a wrapper though...
for file in `file $@`; do; if $file blablabla
should do the trick, right?

Can be done by picking something like fim and adding features through libraries, like djvulibre for djvu, CHMLib for chm, etc. Zathura already does this.

But does it solve the problem or is using multiple applications that do nearly the same thing?

This. I'll take zsh and mpv tho

>xfce DE
Yesss

If I were a developer I would take that idea and extend fim through libraries. Completeness is the way.

you got me there, although i think ideally it would be one program per fileformat and a wrapperscript that automatically chooses the right one.
and to take this a bit further, for most ebook formats you don't actually need a program as they're mostly zipped or otherwise compressed html, rt, markdown or similar formats, so eg an epub viewer can probably be implemented as a wrapper script using unzip and links

I think we are almost at the point of having more programs that can use complimentary applications as extensions We have a multitude of applications that can render from epub to postcript on the terminal already, making a wrapper for this case does make sense.

>63339175
The greenwoodsoftware less is against both philosophies. 25k loc for a fucking pager?

>a fucking pager
That's a common misconception, less is more than just a pager www-zeuthen.desy.de/~friebel/unix/lesspipe.html

>OS
Gentoo
>DE/WM
i3 + i3blocks
>Video/Music player
mpd/ncmpcpp/cantata
>Image viewer
i should get one. got digikam for photo management.
>File Manager
terminal
>Text Editor
Sublime
>Shell
bash
>Web Browser
chromium
>Terminal
urxvtd

Cross posting from previous thread, found a working repository of Suckless project's Sandy:
repology.org/metapackage/sandy/packages

cool as shit, what stage are you in?

>OS
Meme Linux (Void)
>DE/WM
i3wm
>Video/Music player
cmus and VLC
>image viewer
feh
>File manager
ranger and nautilus
>Text Editor
Vim
>Shell
zsh
>Web Browser
Firefox
>Terminal
terminator

I'd like to go to urxvt but it's fucking ugly. Visual minimalism is minimalism too, and it doesn't need to mean difficult to setup, shitty and pixelated terminal

>need to use literally pages-worth of cheat sheets and memorize at least half a dozen contextually-based keyboard shortcuts and chords in order to manage your desktop
>but it's minimalism because there's no window borders

desu most sane software either follows vi-style keybindings or (in case of GNU software) emacs style keybindings.

About to test a script for screenshot and screencasting on the TTY. Got basic wm features if you like tiling wm, also start to bind keys, nothing fancy. Already got mail, video, music and basic file management. I would say in early to middle stages, depends on how hard netsurf is to set and an ebook reader is to find.

>I'd like to go to urxvt but it's fucking ugly. Visual minimalism is minimalism too, and it doesn't need to mean difficult to setup, shitty and pixelated terminal
What? I have smooth fonts in my urxvt terminal. You have to create a .Xresources file and add

URxvt.font: xft:monospace:size=9

to it.

>urxvbloat

the coolest thing. Can I try this out somewhere?

>he/she/xe has >1000 packages on their machine
>hasn't yet commited suicide
literal what

I paste the configurations here or on pastebin
# screencast
avconv -f alsa -f fbdev -r 30 -i /dev/fb0 screencast.webm
# screenshots
avconv -f fbdev -frames:v 1 -r 1 -i /dev/fb0 screenshot.jpeg
Probably will change this to ffmpeg at some point.

I hope this thread remains to post progress and see who else wants to join and contribute configurations. Is all about configure some tools to the terminal. Maybe I will post a roadmap.

>OS
GNU/Linux
>DE/WM
n/a, I only use a tty
>Video/Music player
mpv
>Image viewer
fbi
>File Manager
cd, mv, mkdir, rm
>Text Editor
ed
>Shell
sh
>Web Browser
lynx
>Terminal
n/a, I only use a tty

How's puppy Linux? I'm planning to runit off a cd-rw on a Pavilion 4535 using a 600 mhz CPU with 64mbs of ram.

Here is a version that works on X11, probably other minimalists will find this useful:
Take screenshot
import -window root png:$HOME/xwz_$(date "+%Y-%m-%d-%H:%M:%S").png
Record desktop
killall -INT avconv 2>/dev/null || avconv -f x11grab -r 25 -s 1280x720 -i :0.0 $HOME/output.webm &

I put this on xbindkeys btw.

>>OS
>Devuan

I've been wanting to try out Devuan, is it as stable as debian?

It was pretty good when it worked. I apparently have some weird hardware (2007 laptop) that puppy absolutely refuses to cooperate with. It would boot after install only to refuse to boot the next time. And I tried both ubanto and slack based versions.

But if it works for you it's bretty fucking good. Definitely worth giving a shot. I honestly love the approach to this whole "read only filesystems" architecture of everything

How can anyone take seriously a guy that recommends ed as a text editor? Ed is absolute dogshit.
Ed is harder than Vim or Emacs not because it has a fuckton of features or because it's flexible, it's hard to use because the interface and controls are garbage because hardware limitations of the 1970's didn't allow for more. Ed is only used in scripts. Absolutely nobody uses Ed on a day-to-day basis because it's fucking awful.
I understand gimping your workflow because you want your software to respect you. I understand gimping your privacy because you want software that works (though I wouldn't do that). But gimping yourself because "muh bloat, muh lines of code" it's absolutely retarded. And cpu+drawterm instead of SSH? What a clown.

>install vim to be "minimal"
>have 10,000 line vimrc
>have tens of extensions
>use 4mb perl module
You are better off just using emacs at this point.

stable, yes. Worth it - you're the one to answer these questions. Despite the promises the project is dead. "stable" release is still based on current debian oldstable

wtf? Do you use LFS?

Does it come with any malware remover packages? I've heard it's great for malware removal.

I think it's finally time for you to work on that reading comprehension mate.

Ed is the standard editor.

No idea about the specifics but the ubuntu-based puppy linux provides you access to the same software packages that regular Ubuntu does

>LFS
Bloat.

Thanks user

Doesn't change the fact that he recommends ed and cpu over nano/pico and SSH because "muh LOC."
In scripts maybe. Nobody uses ed.

Of course, on the system *I* administrate, vi is symlinked to ed.
Emacs has been replaced by a shell script which 1) Generates a syslog
message at level LOG_EMERG; 2) reduces the user's disk quota by 100K;
and 3) RUNS ED!!!!!!

"Ed is the standard text editor."

Let's look at a typical novice's session with the mighty ed:

golem> ed

?
help
?
?
?
quit
?
exit
?
bye
?
hello?
?
eat flaming death
?
^C
?
^C
?
^D
?

---
Note the consistent user interface and error reportage. Ed is
generous enough to flag errors, yet prudent enough not to overwhelm
the novice with verbosity.

"Ed is the standard text editor."

Ed, the greatest WYGIWYG editor of all.

ED IS THE TRUE PATH TO NIRVANA! ED HAS BEEN THE CHOICE OF EDUCATED
AND IGNORANT ALIKE FOR CENTURIES! ED WILL NOT CORRUPT YOUR PRECIOUS
BODILY FLUIDS!! ED IS THE STANDARD TEXT EDITOR! ED MAKES THE SUN
SHINE AND THE BIRDS SING AND THE GRASS GREEN!!

When I use an editor, I don't want eight extra KILOBYTES of worthless
help screens and cursor positioning code! I just want an EDitor!!
Not a "viitor". Not a "emacsitor". Those aren't even WORDS!!!! ED!
ED! ED IS THE STANDARD!!!

TEXT EDITOR.

When IBM, in its ever-present omnipotence, needed to base their
"edlin" on a UNIX standard, did they mimic vi? No. Emacs? Surely
you jest. They chose the most karmic editor of all. The standard.

Ed is for those who can *remember* what they are working on. If you
are an idiot, you should use Emacs. If you are an Emacs, you should
not be vi. If you use ED, you are on THE PATH TO REDEMPTION. THE
SO-CALLED "VISUAL" EDITORS HAVE BEEN PLACED HERE BY ED TO TEMPT THE
FAITHLESS. DO NOT GIVE IN!!! THE MIGHTY ED HAS SPOKEN!!!

>^C
>^D
Holy shit dude my sides just exploded.

Has anyone tried it? It's extremely buggy for me. Moving the cursor right in the line puts random garbage in the line that dissapears when I change lines up/down.

No, the only suckless software i use is dwm. Everything else is too autistic for me cause i don't know C. Tfw brainlet

>Gentoo
>X with a tileing script I made in LISP
>MPV
>feh
>PCmanFM
>emacs
>zsh
>Ungoogled chromium
>rxvt-unicode

Total ram usage without browser 988KB

>988KB
You mean 988MB

he doesn't discourage SSH because of LOC but because unix tty

post screen shot pls

You aren't missing much. This piece of dookie has regexp-based selection.
You actually have to type shit you want to select. What the fuck man.

Anyone here using st (simple terminal) by Suckless?

I've been trying to use both their 0.7 release and their git repo, but I can't properly apply the patches needed for the scrollback feature. It always fails at compile time on the second patch.

These are the patches st.suckless.org/patches/scrollback/

Any pointers? This is my procedure:

git clone git clone git://git.suckless.org/st
sudo make clean install

Works well out of the box, unsurprisingly

git apply st-scrollback-20170329-149c0d3.diff
sudo make clean install

Works well with patch #1

git apply st-scrollback-mouse-20170427-5a10aca.diff
sudo make clean install

Compile error:

rm -f st st.o x.o st-0.7.tar.gz
c99 -I/usr/X11R6/include `pkg-config --cflags fontconfig` `pkg-config --cflags freetype2` -DVERSION=\"0.7\" -D_XOPEN_SOURCE=600 -O -c st.c
In file included from st.c:37:0:
st.h:10:25: error: invalid application of ‘sizeof’ to incomplete type ‘MouseKey[] {aka struct []}’
#define LEN(a) (sizeof(a) / sizeof(a)[0])
^
st.c:240:19: note: in expansion of macro ‘LEN’
size_t mkeyslen = LEN(mkeys);
^~~
Makefile:22: recipe for target 'st.o' failed
make: *** [st.o] Error 1

And I'm still missing patch #3 to get the full functionality I want

Is it really the patch being wrong? or am I screwing something up? Is it that I have to hunt down the specific date of the repo this patch was made for? Any help would be appreciated

There's always this fellow who already did all the heavy work, but I'd like to try to be able to compile it in my computer. github.com/salcedo/st-bloated

(ignore the double git clone on the first codeline, miscopied)

>Is it really the patch being wrong?
what else?

try sudo apt-get install build-essential

I'm just confused as to how this guy
github.com/salcedo/st-bloated
got it working if the patch was the problem. In his compiled st, he has all the scrollback functionality I want, the problem is I don't want the other things he baked in.

It is already installed

Did you look at that?
st.suckless.org/patches/scrollback/

Yes user, I did, it's at the top of my post those are the steps I followed

Could anyone do me the favor of trying to reproduce my steps and see if you get the same error too? Or if it's my problem only?

should I use mksh? why is it better than bash?

>arch
>mpv
>thunar
>zsh
>urxvt
>i3
>vim
>firefox

how'd I do?

not bad but arch is bloat

Are you implying st isn't fast? In what way?

I know user, but nothing comes close to the convenience of the AUR!

>Could anyone do me the favor of trying to reproduce my steps and see if you get the same error too? Or if it's my problem only?
I just did. It compiled fine.

Is not, be careful, is intentionally less powerful. Do use it if you want a trimmed down shell.

What distro are you on, senpai?

current debian stable. 9.2 iirc

What makes it bloated?
Shit takes less than 1 tab from chrome.

Huh. I'm on Debian Sid. I guess there must be a bug with some compiler then, I'll look into it so I can report it.

try doing heavy ssh/heavy scripting on urxvbloat

:^)

>use debian unstable
>it's broken
told ya.
stable or get the fuck back to arch