Why didn't you motherfuckers tell me earlier how amazingly comfy emacs was? I picked up vim some 15 years ago and never really felt the need to give emacs a serious try (partly because I'd already "invested" in vim, and partly because of all those scary "emacs pinky", "emacs is an OS" and "crazy neckbeards do email, IRC and live inside emacs" memes) until couple of weeks ago and holy fucking shit, I'm a convert. The infinite configurability and ability to bend it to your most autistic preferences is godlike, all with a much more shallow learning curve than in the case of vim. Also: fucking org mode, how did I live without it? I think I wasted 15 years on the wrong side of the eternal vim vs. emacs holy war.
Now I do everything in it, and with pandoc you can do anything with it.
Alexander Torres
Name things that I can do with Emacs + Vim bindings that I can't do with regular Vim. I just don't see the point.
Carter Jones
>Now I do everything in it, and with pandoc you can do anything with it.
can I watch anime with it?
Josiah Diaz
I've been preaching emacs ever since I switched too m8. It's just so damn good. It's too bad that all the vim memers fall for stupid shit like emacs being bloated or fucking your pinky.
Luis Jenkins
Probably. Emacs is super extensible, there's even a window manager based on emacs called EXWM thats mostly just an elisp file.
Grayson Davis
>Name things that I can do with Emacs + Vim bindings that I can't do with regular Vim. You can make your Lisp IDE, your text editor, your MPD client, your email client, your news reader, and your X11 window manager the same binary.
Also it takes about three minutes to get all of that working from a fresh Spacemacs config (github.com/syl20bnr/spacemacs) by adding layers.
Bentley Sanders
mpv does work inside EXWM, yes.
Jayden Foster
Try using Evil mode, or Spacemacs if you want an excellent dotfile without much work. Turn it into a replacement for your IDE, terminal emulator, word processor and email application?
Jonathan Walker
The point is to have a nice Lisp machine to live in. Escapism from the Unix ghetto.
Henry Mitchell
what would u recommend for someone coming from VSstudio/eclipse/kate that want to test emacs ? I don't want to learn it, just something that give me a good taste of emacs to see if I want to invest time in it
Jayden Anderson
ITT: Stallman has a discussion with himself
Cameron Parker
It's not about can vs. can't, it's about how much wresting/hacking you need before you can. Emacs is programmable by design (it's basically a Lisp interpreter) so the extending possibilities are not only infinite but much easier and natural than in the case of Vim. It also communicates with subprocesses better, so embedding a debugger or interpreter, or shell in it is also much easier. And, of course, there's Org-mode, which is a selling point for many people.
Owen Garcia
>Garfinkel >Weise >Strassmann
every time
Nathaniel Kelly
I would recommend nutting the fuck up and trying it. Emacs's power is in its customization, so leaving anything to its defaults sort of misses the point.
Landon Martinez
Yes. You can even do video editing
Julian Jackson
Reminder than package managers are what make emacs slow. Reminder than package managers are what make emacs slow. Reminder than package managers are what make emacs slow.
Don't use package managers. Don't use package managers. Don't use package managers.
Parker Bailey
Most of their complaints were addressed in GNU/Linux by like 2005 too. Linux's ability to run on damn near anything 32 bit or 64 bit, its zero price tag, and the collection of Free Software available for it collapsed entire classes of OS and application markets. It and OS X axe murdered the parts of the unix workstation industry that actually needed unix, with the rest migrating to Windows (although even that's coming back with Win10's abhorrent bullshit).
Xavier Baker
I just want a text editor
Adrian Foster
Emacs without packages is kind of shit though. What's the alternative, manually importing and orchestrating thousands of lines of elisp or writing everything from scratch?
Ian King
No, you want an IDE. Install xwpe, but emacs can be like that and more.
Andrew Cox
Then use Vim and hold your nose whenever you have to deal with VimScript, or use Nano.
Leo Young
>Anti-Foreword >By Dennis Ritchie > >To the contributers to this book: > >I have succumbed to the temptation you offered in your preface: I do write you off as envious malcontents and romantic keepers of memories. The systems you remember so fondly (TOPS-20, ITS, Multics, Lisp Machine, Cedar/Mesa, the Dorado) are not just out to pasture, they are fertilizing it from below. Your judgments are not keen, they are intoxicated by metaphor. In the Preface you suffer first from heat, lice, and malnourishment, then become prisoners in a Gulag. In Chapter 1 you are in turn infected by a virus, racked by drug addiction, and addled by puffiness of the genome. > >Yet your prison without coherent design continues to imprison you. How can this be, if it has no strong places? The rational prisoner exploits the weak places, creates order from chaos: instead, collectives like the FSF vindicate their jailers by building cells almost compatible with the existing ones, albeit with more features. The journalist with three undergraduate degrees from MIT, the researcher at Microsoft, and the senior scientist at Apple might volunteer a few words about the regulations of the prisons to which they have been transferred. > >Your sense of the possible is in no sense pure: sometimes you want the same thing you have, but wish you had done it yourselves; other times you want something different, but can't seem to get people to use it; sometimes one wonders why you just don't shut up and tell people to buy a PC with Windows or a Mac. No Gulag or lice, just a future whose intellectual tone and interaction style is set by Sonic the Hedgehog. You claim to seek progress, but you succeed mainly in whining. > >Here is my metaphor: your book is a pudding stuffed with apposite observations, many well-conceived. Like excrement, it contains enough undigested nuggets of nutrition to sustain life for some. But it is not a tasty pie: it reeks too much of contempt and of envy. > >Bon appetit!
Dylan Rivera
org-mode is literally the singularity event
Anthony Evans
>You can make your Lisp IDE, your text editor, your MPD client, your email client, your news reader, and your X11 window manager the same binary. And why the fuck would I want to do this? at that point just move Emacs into systemd, move systemd into the kernel and have the whole OS as one binary.
Logan Robinson
>And why the fuck would I want to do this? at that point just move Emacs into systemd People have literally used a static-linked Emacs as the init binary (init=/usr/bin/emacs) for a Linux session before.
Henry Allen
Again, why would I want to do that? Text editor: vim MPD client: ncmpcpp email: mutt or neomutt news reader: newsbeuter X11 window manager: bspwm + sxhkd
Brayden Gonzalez
In other words, what is the practical reason for having all of this as one binary?
Lucas Sanchez
So what you're telling me is that emacs has shitty defaults?
Dylan Green
sounds like it
Jordan Harris
Emacs with the right Evil-focused configuration is better than Vim for editing text, and you get all the better improvements of the Emacs ecosystem which stem from having a proper language interpreter instead of shitty vimscript. Mu4e in particular is significantly better than Mutt. Some stuff like EXWM is 100% "just because I can" functionality, but it's still fun to have the option. The biggest reason for putting everything inside Emacs is to make it integrate with the rest of Emacs, or to not have to leave Emacs to do things. This keeps you from having to do mental context-switches between Emacs and the rest of the world when you're in the middle of something. The random shit like MPD clients is for people who are already pretty far down this rabbit hole.
Deeply, deeply shitty defaults, yes. If you want to not ever touch the defaults of your text editor, nano or vim will be more your speed, or maybe notepad.exe.
Ayden Martin
>Emacs with the right Evil-focused configuration is better than Vim for editing text >Mu4e in particular is significantly better than Mutt Explain.
Benjamin Sanchez
While I agree some things people integrate into emacs seem ridiculous, I can totally see why some of them do email or nntp in it. Browsing, reading and composing mail or news posts is reading and writing text; if you happen to have a highly specialized tool for reading, writing and formatting text that you've autistically configured to let you be as efficient in reading, writing and formatting text as humanly possible (and that you spend lots of time in anyway, because you're a programmer or whatever), wanting to use it for mail/news doesn't seem unreasonable at all.
Ryan Davis
vi is UNIX standard, vim and emacs are not. I can depend on the former to be available on any *NIX server I log onto. i log on to 100s of customer servers in a year thus vi wins
Nolan Torres
coolio. I am not some subhuman in sysadmin work. I work with a PERSONAL computer with PERSONAL software such as emacs with my PERSONAL configuration. so your subhuman issues are not my issues.
Brandon Allen
This speaks to me as a long time freetard. I still don't use Windows or Mac, but I've long given up on freetard purism.
Austin Myers
vim uses the same keybinds as vi. emacs is the one you can't be sure about, because you have to install some shitty attempt at emulating the speed and efficiency of these universal editors.
Josiah Flores
congratulations.
some of us have gainful employment
Carter Cruz
90% of what I do on a computer is writing, and I found that emacs works with sentences and paragraphs better than vim does, out of the box.
For code, I'm sure vim is better, but for writing prose it seems emacs is better. This is just my experience though.
Angel King
I think this is a good argument for just using fucking vim. That way, you have a fast and efficient text editor for home use that has the same keybindings as what would be used on a server. You only have to memorize one autistic editor instead of two.
Jonathan Perez
Sure. The only good thing about Vim is the user interface, the good bits of which are adequately cloned or improved upon with Spacemacs (or another configuration for your use case if you disagree). The actual text-editing backend, the code base, the syntax highlighting, VimScript, everything else is just BAD. You can tell it grew up on a bunch of half baked 80s micros and was only later ported to proper unix likes. Emacs has been the recipient of Richard Stallman's autistic attention to detail, love of Lisp, and obsession with getting software right since the 1970s, and it shows. For an example, try opening up an 8500 line Makefile or Python file in Vim. The syntax highlighting chokes halfway down and the file itself takes an abominably long time to open, right? Opening it in an Emacs pane is fast and flawless. This is of particular interest to me given that I work on shitty huge files from existing codebases like that a lot, as well as creating long prose files. Another thing is the server/client model. You can use the "emacsclient" command to basically say "open this file in a new buffer in an existing Emacs session" so long as the Emacs session has its server listening. This is fantastic if you've got a terminal open poking around a file tree and suddenly find something you want to have open in the same editor you've already got on a project. Finally, the Emacs package management system is a first-party feature, rather than requiring picking between four or five systems like on Vim. You basically just add extra repos, same as with your distro's package manager.
This sums up the case for mu4e very well. In Spacemacs at least mu4e gets some neat keybindings that are faster than you can do in mutt.
With Tramp you can open files on remote systems via SSH right from your local emacs. If you have plink.exe installed it even works on Windows. :^)
Austin Watson
I do too. but sysadmins=subhumans.
Hunter Nguyen
It looks cool as fuck with a proper theme, too. I prefer Cyberpunk for dark backgrounds (and the name, lol), and Leuven for light backgrounds. This author explains the zen of orgmode very well.
That's not how corporations work, everything is controlled so I can't siphon out billions of credit card charges out of a customer DB. Everything is audit logged and the SSH access is controlled. If it's not via SSH or an X Windows server then I have to connect directly via PuTTY via a secured tunnel.
Grayson Cooper
it's really intimidating 2bh. gave up with a book dedicated to introducing emacs, and just opened up vimtutor i'll give it a shot again some other time
Zachary Hall
You can use multi-hop SSH access with Tramp mode if necessary.
It's a customized callback that checks the cryptographic signature of the executable being called because we don't want a customer suing us saying we inserted a routine that allowed an intruder to price everything at a dollar, so helpful information potentially in certain cases, but not my primary job...
Sebastian Mitchell
For the same reason I wouldn't want to reboot my machine to change programs. Context switches suck. Integration between programs is awesome.
Elijah Moore
vi is a POSIX extension. ed is a POSIX standard.
There are UNIX machines without vi.
ed man!
Leo Kelly
Multi-hop should work for that. You're using Emacs to talk to OpenSSH, which talks to an intermediate host, which in turn uses OpenSSH to talk to the target system and access files. There's no way they're going to be able to tell that you're using Emacs unless they've got permanent NSA level monitoring of every host and link on your network.
Anthony Reed
Who needs emacs or vim when you have notepad
Ian Allen
>vi is UNIX standard That's how I know you are entry level.
Is there a reason why GNU/Linux and BSD didn't go SUS?
Tyler King
Every release of every distro would have to get recertified. It's an enormous pain for no real benefit, especially now that Linux is better known than Unix in many areas.
Sebastian Baker
>So what you're telling me is that emacs has shitty defaults? No its just the main reason to use emacs in the first place is to customize it and make it more efficient. If you're just using as a basic text editor then not using emacs to its full potential.
Matthew Gray
>For code, I'm sure vim is better, It's really not. It's only better for light tweaking, simple config file changes, etc.
Christian Long
why not?
Ryan Long
Just take your autism medicine.
Isaac Jenkins
Try reading the thread.
Evan Russell
>plays beat in 33.33/12 time.
Samuel Stewart
Or use Neovim where Vimscript is there for plugins that are still in vimscript (and there are a few good ones) but lua is the new meta
Jack Mitchell
Lua is just a shittier Lisp.
Benjamin Brooks
Every dynamic language is just a shittier Lisp, including Lisp.
Juan Campbell
Currently in the process of converting my config package management to (use-package) statements. Up until now I've been zipping up my entire .emacs.d and transporting it with me everywhere.
I know, I'm disgusted with myself too.
Julian Allen
use-package is silly. Just put your .emacs.d under Git.
Tyler Ward
The other part of it is I'm using it to organize mode-specific bindings and settings, and I'm hoping to reduce startup time as I acquire more and more packages (which I've at least heard use-package helps with)
Levi Sullivan
Emacs bump
Jason Nguyen
You bet your ass it can.
Nolan Ortiz
>Why didn't you motherfuckers tell me earlier how amazingly comfy emacs was? We did. Many, many times. We also told you to use Evil Mode, to have the best of both worlds.
It's your own fault you didn't listen to us sooner.
Juan Hall
You can just start emacs as a service during boot time. Emacsclient opens instantly.
Ryder Davis
>white background my eyes are bleeding
Ryder Lee
go to the eye doctor mr xXx1337H4CK3RxXx
Landon Cruz
Is there a good dictionary plugin for brief definition/synonym lookups on Emacs?
Julian King
I down the brightness on my monitor to the point where white nearly looks like gray. It seems odd that people are actively trying to distort the picture with f.lux when there's already a reasonable, less-intrusive solution.
Jacob Perez
What exactly does one take to treat autism?
Mason Parker
Blue light reduction is very nice on your eyes.
David Adams
But not very practical.
Dylan Phillips
Install Spacemacs and add the syntax checking layer and the layers for your programming languages of choice, and maybe auto-compelte, and then reboot Spacemacs.
Gabriel Jenkins
We did when we made it the default editor of CloverOS
Justin Nelson
I've done Vim and Emacs and I prefer Vim.
Emacs Lisp >>> Vimscript, but the Emacs shortcuts are just bulky.
Example: create a macro "m" and excecute it 7 times.
Vim: qm [..do some stuff here..] @q 7m
Emacs: C-x ( [..do some stuff here..] C-x ) M-x name-last-kbd-macro m C-x e e e e e e e
Is this comfy..?
Matthew Gray
I want to add that "8" requires that you press "Shift".
So "C-x (" is actually two times two keys you need to press at the same time. In Vim it's as simple as "qq".
And I'm not cherry picking here, Emacs has a great philosophy and functionality, but I just can't stand the shortcuts.
Brandon Clark
I having a hard time imagining what kind of workflow would compel the use of C-x e e e e e e e when C-u exists, but, yeah, that sounds pretty comfy.
David Anderson
How so?
Oliver Butler
More like:
..do stuff here..
C-7 C-x e
7 keys (5 if you don't count Ctrl) in emacs vs. 7 (6 if you don't count Shift) + mode changing in vim.
Justin Hughes
Fair enough.
Back in the days I didn't like the shortcuts, but maybe I should have a second look at Emacs and try to get beyond the "baby duck snydrome" stage.
Dylan Garcia
Actually, it can even be shortened to:
..do stuff..
C-7
Ultimately, it's not about "keystroke golf" though, it's about which editor's philosophy suits your way of thinking better.
Parker Thomas
How I do dat?
Alexander Roberts
Have a service start emacs with the --daemon flag, and then only use emacsclient -c to open a new emacs frame when you need to edit something
Bentley Long
Maybe if the community took Guile a bit more seriously. As of now, newer vim-like editors like neovim and xi seem to be good for someone my my use-case of wanting my autism to be modernized.
Zachary Moore
What sort of modernization do they offer?
Joshua White
evil is surprisingly nice and easy to install
Carson Flores
holy shit the logo is a gnu. can't believe it took me 4 years to see it
Aiden Butler
Anyone here using Emacs for IRC and Bitlbee as well? What's your setup?
Mason Cox
Thanks for pointing it out, I hadn't realised it either.
Leo Brown
Hydra is highly recommended if you just want a simple vi mode instead of requiring Evil.
I write a lot of long reports and dissertations, so I have main sections (one asterisk, this or \section in .tex) for the main essay (on header),references, footnotes (automatically), etc.
Then I have the file open in a split buffer so I can move between the various headings of one part (and move them around), and then add to the main part. Obviously in addition to footnotes there's markup, hyperlinks, etc., and can be exported to quite snazzy looking HTML or PDF.
I would take a screen shot, but I do it all on an old laptop (without even X, to keep distractions to a minimum).
Just have a go at it, and you'll see the attraction. Also, the tables will blow your mind.
