Now that Windows 10 natively supports a UNIX shell...

Now that Windows 10 natively supports a UNIX shell, literally what is the point of using anything other than Windows on your personal computer?

It doesn't allow you to interact with the hardware, its literally less useful then running a VM.

>natively
yeah just like wine runs "natively"

What's the point in using Windows 10, in your opinion? What do you think its downsides are and which improvements would you like to see?

More and better software available, better user interface, less error prone (than linux at least), ubiquitous

Its downside is having to use the terminal or any lower-level utilities.

>Better user interface
Metro is worse than Aero.

OB+Tint2
Criticize me.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I didn't use the terminal all that much in W7 - maybe W10 is different. Of course, I come from a DOS background and don't consider using the terminal a downside at all - it's generally faster than using a GUI and also much easier than trying to get multiple GUI-based programs to work nicely with each other.
You didn't mention telemetry and vulnerability to malware - dealing with these issues is what really burned me out on W7, but I suppose not everyone would put a priority on such things when it comes to choosing an OS.

>bloat
>outdated filesystem
>incessant upgrade tactics
>UI is shit
>not free as in gratis or libre

It’s a shame, Windows would actually be amazing if Microsoft didn’t insist on making it shit

Alright, here we go:
I prefer to have a consistent environment close to the servers I deploy plus the ability to mirror my machine by running nixos-install using my current configuration.

Most of the UI I tend to use is terminal based as the majority if not all of the GUI tools are cumbersome / don't work well or at all over ssh.

Setting up my programming environment is much easier as all I run is nix-shell and I have all the tools I need without any extra effort when working on a project even if some would version clash normally on other systems,

A fully declarative system means I know exactly what is and isn't running plus can tweak to my requirements. Something I would certainly miss if I start using windows.

Now that I think about it, I don't have any reasons to use windows honestly. I won't gain anything as I instead lose things which I use frequently even if some of the tools work on windows. So that's why.

And yet its still better than Linux

if the windows ui is shit what does that make the linux ui

half of desktop environments have screen tearing, xorg is 30 year old dinosaur garbage but wayland is somehow still worse, i could go on

>he thinks the only reason people use linux is the shell

>wayland is somehow still worse
Give some reasons why it's worse that don't have to do with it being less supported as of right now. Like, what structural, design-level problems does it have?

Not even trying to argue, I'm just curious.

Well it can't be because of the software or UI

>better package management
>better control over your system
the only reason you would use windows is if you're some baby that can't handle new things

>literally what is the point of using anything other than Windows on your personal computer?
How about being able to figure out what's going on on your system, so that it's at all possible to correct any errors or anomalies? Or a nice programming model?

>"by default" is the same thing as "natively" - OP

>"by default" is the same thing as "natively"
- OP

>Windows
>less error prone

Ok, what exactly does the ubuntu subsystem actually provide for windows users? Does it allow windows users to run command line linux software? I have no idea

I wouldn't use Windows 10 even if I were paid to do so.
I use my property(computer) as I see fit, not when Microsoft allows me to do.
>inb4 hurr set working hours
I shouldn't have to negotiate the use of MY property with Microsoft.
Now fuck off you subhuman Indian shill.
saged.

You can ssh into linux machines and do work

Will this kill cygwin? I hope so

But can't you just use Putty for that?

>Now that Windows 10 natively supports a UNIX shell
It doesn't. It supports a GNU shell.
GNU is Not UNIX. That's the name of the operating system you inbred fuck.

The main thing is that it has next to no features (by design afaik), every compositor has to implement everything separately meaning smaller window manager or desktop environment projects get the shaft

Take the new gnome night light as an example

nt

>i dont want a distracting taskbar
>i want multiple workspaces i can access via number, not by pressing arrow keys
>i dont want shitty overly-thin font rendering
>i dont want window titlebars
>i want a tiling window manager
that's why i wouldn't use windows
windowsfags tell me, can you actually get these things in windows

the use case for linux remains what it has always been: computer too old and shitty to be worth shelling out the cost of a Win7 license.

That and servers
And SBCs
And obscure architectures
And your phone
And probably your car

Ok POOjet.

This

Allow me to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as UNIX is actually GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. GNU is a recursive acronym for "GNU's Not Unix!" chosen because GNU's design is Unix-like, but differs from Unix by being free software and containing no Unix code.

I wonder when stallman will die

>More and better software available
I find this to be only partially true and maybe the only redeeming point of windows. However this is not a technical perk of windows, it's just that it has most of the marketshare with the use of anti competitive practices on top. So saying that linux is at fault of being ignored by software developers like adobe is just as fair as claiming that "windows phone didn't had any applications because it was a shit".

>better user interface
If you mean this compared to linux i must disagree. One of the reason why i use a linux distro is because i consider most desktop environments to be superior to the desktop environment windows has, both regarding features and customization. The only outstanding problem i've found is that the GTK file picker is pretty bad compared to the one offered by other environments including plasma, however this is only in comparison, it's pretty bad but not necessarily terrible.

>less error prone (than linux at least)
I just cannot agree based on my personal experience. Windows tends to shit itself very often for me even if i try to be careful. Other of the reasons why i use linux is because it's just too canvenient when it comes to the maintenance of the system, it's basically maintenance-free and the package managers is a must i cannot just ignore. The best you can get on windows (aside from the crippled windows store) is chocolatey, but rather than being a proper package manager is a lot like the AUR and it can barely take care of the system itself, it fails very often for me when trying to update programs and it's very slow compared to anything on linux.

>ubiquitous
Probably but as i mention this is not necessarily a good thing unless you genuinely like windows. If you're someone who would prefer another OS it's actually pretty bad that microsoft managed to basically lock everyone into it. Ask any WP lover how they feel about google if you want to compare.

its not a unix shell
it's cobbled together, partially working tools
it's not got what bash/linux has
why go there

Now that the best part of Windows 10 is literally an incomplete Linux compatibility layer, why wouldn't you just run Linux instead?

What is the point of running a *nix system within Windows when I don't need Windows at all and have more choices of *nix systems without Windows?

I know this is bait, but between Windows, macOS, and Linux, macOS is so far the thing I'd go for (though it is RAPIDLY in decline). I work with graphics (particularly Adobe software) a lot, so Linux is right out, as that software is not available for it.

Windows is okay/10. The problem is all the legacy bullshit the OS has. For example, the fucking clipboard is a COM mess. Where macOS just straight up gives me a PNG image, Windows will have some horrible BMP monstrosity that may or may not preserve transparency depending on the phase of the moon.

Also I just like the UX of macOS - that NeXTSTEP legacy is great. The workspaces implementation is absolutely wonderful (everything from dragging apps from one place to another to dragging files across workspaces works great), Finder, while flawed, has the best preview app available, and motherfucking miller columns, which are a joy to use.

macOS is not perfect - the *nix underpinnings are pretty meh, but the OS was good enough for my programming needs, though I know a few people that do not particularly like it. Sadly, Apple is driving it into the ground hard. High Sierra is a fucking disaster, and Apple broke the fucking userland.

I can relate with this. I have a need for Proprietary software that isn't on loonix, and I wouldn't touch Win10 with a 10 foot pole, so MacOS it is.

If I had a choice, I'd go full Linux in a heartbeat, but for now I do my comfy tiling WM rices in virtualbox.

I wish KVM had a good GPU solution, then I could run Linux as host, and Windows as guest for my graphics work.

>And probably your car
Only Tesla and the new Camry use it, so more likely not.

> native
> ntfs file system

Pick one

Good luck finding any kind of remote support tool for Wayland based systems at this time. That's the only obvious issue with it at this time.

Because macOS does it at the hardware level and still has whatever gui elements you like about Windows.

Or just be a man and install a distro.

The authenticity of the linux experience is enough reason for me.

It's not network transparent. And it doesn't support enough generic functions, as in for x to change resolutions in a script you use xrandr and it works for every de and wm but in wayland you have to use swaymsg for sway, some dbus thing for gnome, and so on. Basically it will end up with lazy devs only targeting one desktop and fucking everyone else over.

You can do gpu passthrough for that.

I've been looking into that. Can I have that work on the XPS 15? Would be great to use the Nvidia chip in the VM and Intel graphics on the host.

>lazy devs only targeting one desktop
Let's just say it straight up, it'll be lazy devs targeting GNOME.

Linux ABI is too big and moves too fast. Lots of popular CLI apps break under WSL because they use recent Linux specific features that WSL doesn't implement. You generally don't know if your favorite tool will work until you try it. If you need containers, non toy web servers or databases - forget it.

There are lots of corner cases to consider too. For example, CIFS (Samba) and NFS shares can't be mounted at all, which means I have to fall back to Cygwin to run POSIX utilities against remote files.

Since it's an NT subsystem, significant updates generally only get shipped as part of big milestones and take over 9000 reboots to apply. This is a huge pain in the ass compared to a simple kernel update, or even a non-rolling distro update (even Fedora won't ask you to reboot more than once!)

Finally, anything graphical is basically not worth bothering with. I'm not going to run a fragile Xming hack setup just to get stuff like gitk to work.

Freedoms.

Well, maybe not giving your information to (((Microsoft))), (((state))), anti-free market commies and Mr. Goldenstein, cuck?

>laptop
>Optimus

Not even once. Most GPU passthrough users are neckbeards who run desktops with known good VT-d.

I'd run try Linux as a Hyper-V guest on a laptop before I'd try Windows in KVM, desu

That + WSL is what I do right now, but I honestly just don't like Windows that much. The shell needs to be burned and rebuilt without legacy code, at the very least.

/thread

...

>better user interface
You are kidding rihgt?
Call me when Windows has a decent tiling wm, before that don't talk about UI.

>half of desktop environments have screen tearing
That is a DRIVER ISSUE.
No DE has screen tearing if the driver is configured correctly.

Windows doesn't even have a tiling wm, how does anyone consider it usable?

/dev/tcp? No? Never heard about it, ya? Fuck off.

I've tried it in a VM. The installation gave some obscure error code which wasn't copy able. I don't have time for shit like this.

What do you need that for?

Bretty sure it's an X issue mane. X can't tell the applications when it's scanning out unless they ask, so they don't and you get an update in the middle it tears. Only fool proof fix is to not use X.

>not on LTSB
not worth using an autoupdating garbage bloatware advertisement OS for

>Bretty sure it's an X issue mane.
I am using X right now without any screen tearing, simply by fixing the driver issue.
X might be at fault, but you can fix the issue simply by fixing your driver.

>I don't have time for shit like configs breaking
>uses Linux

>some obscure error code
Did you try installing a distro from the store without enabling wsl?

Probably some dumb shell script. Not sure why it wouldn't work as it's a bash feature, not part of the kernel.

No i've enabled the dev mode and then enabled wsl or something like that. I think thats where the error happened. Not beeing able to copy the error was a killer for me.

Just werks for me. I don't care if it doesn't for you. Use whatever fits you best.

And?

My debian didn't once break.

Windows 10 forces certain Intel GPUs to use a "hand picked" driver from India that does not support accelerated OpenGL.

ctrl+c on a focused message box usually copies the entire contents

No, I think they actually ported that stuff to Windows

Nice to know if i ever need to use windows again.

Came here to post this. I swear it's just the one idiot who has been posting for a week or so. He thought OpenBSD was unix, too.

t. brainlet who doesn't know anything about NT's design

It is native, it's no different than the Win32 subsystem.

>i dont want a distracting taskbar
>i want multiple workspaces i can access via number, not by pressing arrow keys
>i dont want shitty overly-thin font rendering
>i dont want window titlebars
>i want a tiling window manager

I work for a college in England that's partnered with Microsoft. I can confirm that this is a ploy. Part of it is to get Cisco courses to stop using Linux on computers and either use the bash environment in W10 or run Linux in VMware (at least in the UK). The ultimate goal is to make sure all companies partnered with Microsoft do not use Linux, thus inflating the market share percentages of people using W10. Microsoft is NOT happy about the rise in people switching to Linux. For example, companies like Steam have recently begun porting some of their games, like Team Fortress 2 and Counter-Strike: Global Operations to Linux, due to the rise in consumers using it as their operating system. Most students I interview have used Ubuntu and/or Kali in their courses and have switched to some flavour of Ubuntu (with the exception of the one cyber security major I've met with last month who insists on using OpenBSD, bless him). They're mostly "gamers" who play Rocket League and Counter-Strike: Global Operations, which are both able to be run in Linux. Microsoft is so occupied with suppressing companies to only use W10 that they actually don't have the funds to bribe video game developers to not port their games to Linux, let alone upgrade hardware in institutions that use their bloody software. The college has been requesting replacements for computers from Microsoft over the past 2 years and they still haven't come through. A huge portion of our hardware in the IT classrooms is faulty and due to our contract, we are only allowed to receive repairs from Microsoft certified technicians, which they refuse to send out. The college is currently in the position where we're looking to employ sysadmins who are experienced in UNIX and eventually decline renewal of our contract with Microsoft. The main problems are that we need our computers fixed, then we need to update our systems in a timely manner so that there is no downtime.

PS- GNU+Linux* ;)
My apologies.

>Global Operations
kek’d

>The jews, the lizard people and the illuminati are conspiring to bring down GNU/Linux!
>Trust me! I have credible sources!

I'm sorry, it's "Global Offensive". The students always use the acronym "CSGO" and I forgot what the "O" stood for. LOL I feel like an idiot.

Inane comment.

What is the point of running GNU/linux on top of a proprietary botnet currycode malware layer, when you can run GNU+Linux on bare metal?

I haven't tried this yet, can you use gcc with it?

It's a lot easier to name things you can't use with it.

Docker, CUDA, low level network utilities like nmap.
All of those are already available on Windows though so it's not a big deal.

Right, because the shell is everything UNIX and Linux are about.

*Linux in particular

Most people use an operating system because it runs the software they need.

GNU's not UNIX.

It isn't a UNIX shell, UNIX is a proprietary OS. Its a shell that runs bash.

That's definitely not the reason why people use Linux.

But a shell is just a simple interface. It has nothing to do with the operating system. I've been able to install bash on windows with cygwin for years.

But you weren't able to run ELFs on Windows.

Every or almost every Linux program has been ported on Windows.

I mean except for those you can't use under windows because the Windows equivalents of them are part of the system and can't be replaced, obviously.

Can I update Windows with it???

The Windows CUDA implementation was always superior to the one on Linux anyway, there's a reason Torvalds hates nvidia.

Whats a Windows?

True but sometimes it's quite a hassle to get them to work.
Quite a lot of time passed before mosh was added to cygwin's repository for example.
Now I can just apt install whatever I want and not deal with cygwin's bullshit

And why would you need mosh under Windows? Are there not any equivalents?
Seriously, I can't imagine someone switching to Linux just for the few applications that haven't been ported on Windows properly yet.