France is an example to us all

From the 2018 school year France is banning smartphones at primary schools and secondary schools.
Personally I agree with France. A child under the age of 18 has no need or use in owning a smartphone.
Parents should give kids a basic phone (pic related) incase of emergancies.

People are complaining that the law would be hard to impletment.
I say bullshit to that. People are lazy and unwilling to put in the effort.
As a school make the following rules
> 1st time caught with a smartphone 100 Euro fine
> 2nd time time caught with a smartphone it get's confiscated
> 3rd time caught with a smartphone child gets a month of detention (which is not sitting around on your ass, but hard labor; like cleaning the school)
> 4th time caught with a smartphone suspension for 1 week

When I was at school (early 2000s) the school made it clear.
Mobile phones are not allowed in school, if you bring one to school and it get's stolen, tough luck it's your own fault.

tweakers.net/nieuws/132765/frankrijk-verbiedt-vanaf-volgend-jaar-smartphones-op-scholen.html
lemonde.fr/education/article/2017/12/10/plus-de-telephones-portables-dans-les-ecoles-et-colleges-a-la-rentree-2018-annonce-le-ministre-de-l-education-nationale_5227485_1473685.html

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudbury_school
twitter.com/AnonBabble

That's just plain retarded but hey it's France....

>instead of giving information on how a smartphone is useful and isn't, plain ban it

That's authoritarian as fuck

I agree with this too although my first cell phone was when i was in year 8 i think before high/prep school.
We just had dumbphones but same rules applied. You got your shit stolen or broken its your fault. Blah blah blah.
I think they should enforce this everywhere because phones are a bigger distraction now. And it SHOULD force teachers to come up with ways to keep their students engaged. I mean its si much easier now with all the tech. But it's just stupid parents too. Idk man

>putting kids away from proprietary cancer
Excellent.
>useful
MMS could do that job well.

This isn't a technology thread, it's a politics thread in disguise. Please fuck off. Also, now that the bait is out there I might as well have a nibble; your urge for children to be strictly controlled is a symptom of a cancerous authoritarian mode of thinking. The type of person that cares this much about what their kid is doing does so because they're incapable of asserting their authority in a situation where those whom they want to control are equal to them in social status. Basically, you use the societal role given to you as a parent to illegitimately exercise power over somebody who has no choice but to comply.

The children that get distracted by phones are gonna be the exact same children that are going to cause distractions themselves.
There's no point in banning phones, they're gonna be retarded anyways.

im kinda jealous of kids today
when its a boring lesson or something at least they can shitpost on the internet

No point saying this is a bad idea per say because it is good in terms of getting kids off social platforms but honestly to enforce it from a government level is just as wrong, Educate people why being on your phone for 10+ hours a day is a bad thing, I know people actually need to learn why that's not a good thing for a human but hey it is 2017 after all and I wish this was the wrong thing about the times we live in...

Maybe they should just ban schools. wtf do you even learn there lol

>per say

>I wish this was the only wrong thing*
I'm tired, been on my phone for too long or something idk.

OP here, I made this thread in Sup Forums and I was told to fuck off here.

...

well yeah I got that wrong, ah well you living learn it's a doggy dog world after all.

Then fuck off back to Sup Forums and keep doing repeating the cycle until you get tired and finally quit using this website. One less cell in the Sup Forums cancer is better for us all.

Fuck, i miss old old phones. Too bad that they're stuck in a 2005. Why can't we have phones with a smartphone-like socs, 256-512mb of ram, ips screen and non-lagging firmware ui with decent fonts?

unironically this

>a child under the age of 18 has no need or use in owning a smartphone

Pretty arbiterary age limit or do you have some statistics proving this?

Im pretty sure the needs and uses for a smartphone cant really be determined by age.

>100 Euro fine
>Suspension for a week
>A child under the age of 18 has no need of use or owning a smartphone.
This is for sure bait but really OP,for a phone? You're just wasting disciplinary capita on the dumbest shit. You should teach kids how to use their device in moderation instead of ripping it away from them.

this.

schools in these countries are basically socialist brainwash camps.

If this can save a few thousand people from irreversible brain damage caused by smartphone addiction, then it's a good thing.
Next time you're in public transport, cut your edgy post-rock music, remove your bluetooth headphone and look at people, take a quick look at their posture and see how mesmerized and retarded they look.
Now take a quick glance at the screen and see the infinite facebook scroll full of waste of spaces posting sub 60 iq philosophical trash.

>your urge for children to be strictly controlled is a symptom of a cancerous authoritarian mode of thinking.
>because they're incapable of asserting their authority
ok mate.

>authoritarian
Normally, I would absolutely agree. But, these are children and they're in France. The OG "please fuck my asshole, daddy Mohammed!" western county, So they don't expressly have the same rights as Americans.

honestly it's related to both fields the technologies we face day to day and the ramifications of them I think we're able to give credence for discourse on this board.

Pretty much this

>1st time caught with a smartphone 100 Euro fine
THE ABSOLUTE STATE OF SOCIALIZED SCHOOLS
No only making the new generation of boot licking cattle, now extorting people in every way possible.

>You should teach kids how to use their device in moderation instead of ripping it away from them.
this

Fining people would be retarded. They should be treated like any other toy.

We have literal children ITT

What is photography
What is internet access
What are educational apps
What are translators
What are cientific calculators
What are creativity inducing apps
...?

This just further proves my point that people should be informed about the usefulness of their Facebook portable machines. Instead of disregarding new technologies they should learn how to use it for the better.

That's why France is so fucked up, not even in my country peoples in charge of education is so ignorant

>calling other people out on sub 60 iq shit
>spouting nothing but sub 60 iq shit

I didn't have a phone (a dumbphone at that) until I was 20. Honestly I'm fine with this.

>expecting the majority of kids to give a shit about said information
You're a naive motherfucker

>kids
>moderation

This won't work kids are much more caning then we give them credit for, when I was a young lad back in 2007 and my dad banned internet after 8pm on the router level I just saved up my allowance and got a cheap router I kept in my room with a hidden ap.

The retarded kids will be caught for sure though, that's useful for something.

>No only making the new generation of boot licking cattle, now extorting people in every way possible.
This remind me of a similar story I can't really remember it full but it was about some street-shitter cucking a whole country with neutrality or some shit like that.

Yes, somebody who has an unfulfilled need to feel powerful but can't because he's a beta cuck (as the kids say these days) will turn to exercising authority over those who are both physically and psychologically weaker than them to compensate for it. This isn't necessarily bad on its own, vut it creates another person with insecurity issues who will do the same to their child in a never-ending cycle of sadness.

This is extremely bad.

Overtime things can get boring. Imagine when these kids are allowed smartphones in their 3rd school. Kids will be on them 24/7. They were never able to use one in the first place, so the moment they get smartphones imagine the burst of kids starting to use them. It will be insane

Fuck I meant cunning.

> photography
Dedicated camera, there's no need to make photos of literally everything.
> internet access
Library computers with faceberg and other SM crap blocked.
> educational apps
Name one app that does the job better than a good teacher.
> translators
Yeah, maybe, but what are dictionaries?
> scientific calculators
Can be solved by a dedicated device, but ok on this one.
> cretivity inducing apps
oh god I am laffin

Sorry I hurt your feelings but it's true.
We already have documented cases where children are nothing more than vegetable and can't think nor do basic task like holding a pen.

Kids need people to exercise authority over them, retard. Kids are dumb and need to be taught what's acceptable and what's not.

>Name one app that does the job better than a good teacher.
Socratic or symbolab :^)

Wtf are you talking about, no one is talking about north korea or usa kind of mass propaganda.
Children need authority, take a look at they self-made kids if you're not convinced. If you can't find any aroud you, you should go to your local child camp where they put problem children, you will find dozen of them.

So because children have no self control, they should be allowed to do whatever they want at all times? Instead, how about parents raise them properly.

You clearly have no clue about any modern education studies.
Be afraid of the future, get left behind

Thanks user, I'm glad there are people like you around here working to counter facilitate high-quality discussion by calling out the childish practice of name-calling and insults. What would this board be without you?
Also, children are now in almost every thread. It's been like this since the election.

Then how do you explain the Sudbury model of education?

If the problem is that children are texting in class instead of paying attention to the teacher (that was the concern when I was a kid), the rules should be made to enforce this. One solution when I was a kid was to take away the phone from the kid and then give it back to them at the end of the day. This is an extreme and it makes more noise than the texting was causing.
This solution was also what teachers used for written exams, so nobody called for outside help with their exam.
Forcing a certain brand of phones does not combat this.
Texting is a lot easier on dumbphones and does not take a 10th of the concentration so I doubt this stops anything.

If the concern instead is the safety of children, I think a law which does not permit selling proprietary software to children under a certain age is a better deal.
This is a more princible based approach and you can punish the phone manufactories (few) instead of punishing the children (many).
This way, the parents can buy a "children approved" foss phone which the parents and ultimately the government can investigate for data tracking services and so on.

I personally think the latter makes sense as it doesn't hinder technology but doesn't force children to sign a 30 page legal document.
Nobody is pushing for lowering the age of consent when it comes to sexual relationships, so why should children consent to software licenses that doesn't respect their freedoms?
When people are adults, they can consent to any software license they want.
Jailing predators that prey on children to sign up for proprietary software and services is much better than start handing out fines to children.

Parents should be the ones raising them property not schools, if my kids school started banning smartphones outside of class I'd move them to a new school.

>France is an example to us all
this is a political discussion based on the individual verses collective
This is not technology.

>visiting a tech board that mainly focused on programming
>being this against optimizing

You cant be serious with dictionaries and going to a library for your internet needs

Pretty much.

my sister is 16 years old and my parents don't have to even ground her for doing some stupid shit.
All they need to do is take her phone away for a day or two and she wakes up from that zombie mode.

>The pervasiveness of play has led to a recurring observation by first-time visitors to a Sudbury school that the students appear to be in perpetual "recess".[10][13]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudbury_school

That tells me everything I need to know. It's basically a daycare center.

>My child will the the drooling obese amoeba like his parents or so help me God :)
the absolute state of american upbringing

feels good that i was in school when everyone didnt have a phone. its probably much harder to learn shit now that everyone have phones and are not required to be quiet.

Nobody is saying children don't need authority. But your child also isn't your BDSM slave. You as a parent have a responsibility to exercise power over them in a way that will genuinely benefit them rather than be a part of your fucked up power fantasy. And if you're so high on the authoritarian neckbeard scale that you want to restrict your child's access to information and online communication by refusing to provide them with a proper phone, I'd say that your relationship with then probably falls into the latter.

This is going too far and it's too authoritarian. And there's no need to have some law that flat out bans phones from school property.

I'm not really sure why it's needed either. We didn't have smartphones back when I was in school but we did have dumb phones. The simple rule was that they needed to be off during class.

Schools in Europe really are socialist brainwashing caps, that's absolutely true. Children are exposed to tests where they are forced to choose between giving a politically correct answer which results in a good grade and a factually correct answer which results in a bad grade or even worse consequences like detention. It really is quite sad.

hiro should redirect Sup Forums to Sup Forums for a day. i bet that these fags would kill themselves if that ever happens.

>You as a parent have a responsibility to exercise power over them in a way that will genuinely benefit them
And not allowing them to form a harmful addiction to social media benefits them, faglord. See They can use the home computer in plain view of everyone for access to information.

What internet needs which can't be fulfilled by a teacher can children have in the middle of a lesson?

>Not buying a dedicated e-dictionary

schools should not be paid with tax money. its the only way to get modern kids with careless parents to appreciate it.

Haha, euros and their authoritarian nanny states.

There's a difference between regulating the time, place, and format of a child's access to the internet; and prohibiting it entirely. I don't think anyone here is arguing children shouldn't have access to information, but that doesn't mean they need to have a smartphone in school either. Children need to be taught boundaries and self control so they can function in society. Giving them free access to the most distracting time sink ever devised just because it can also be used to read wiki articles is not a net benefit to them.

If you're convinced that social media is harmful, you should explain it to them properly. The thing is, you won't. You will restrict access to it without really entering a conversation. It seems that this is more a love of dogma and the notion of "unquestionable authority" than it is about smartphones being bad. And again, that's not necessarily wrong or untrue. When you really spend time investigating the question, you realize that the reason why liberals and conservatives can't find common ground is because they have fundamentally different ways of thinking, and different goals when entering a discussion. The central assumption of conservatism is that the we're all better off not having the conversation (including the conversation about whether or not it's good to have the conversation and so on).

>Personally I agree with France. A child under the age of 18 has no need or use in owning a smartphone.
This is france desu which is europe which has been infested with rapists and terrorists now more than ever kids need phones

WolframAlpha can solve problems most calculus teachers would take an hour solving in under a minute, and give you a breakdown of the process.
Learning math is really all about learning what processes you have to do to reach a solution, the actual numbers themselves are just tedious.

The law doesn't say that children can't own smartphones, they just can't bring them to school, and honestly kids don't need them at school for any of the reasons that you listed.

im sure that the school gives the students everything that they need. theres absolutely no valid reason to have your own toys with you to play with in class.

>The thing is, you won't.
That's a pretty big assumption to make. Of course, I'll explain to them that social media is a time sink that'll rot their brain. Then I'll use my authority to take it away from them instead of letting them do whatever they please as you would do.

>explain how social media is a time sink
...And then proceed to spend half an hour arguing with some third-worlder about authoritarianism on a mongolian fingerpainting forum.

This is only acceptable if we were to privatize education, or to create a voucher system for education.
That way, parents, citizens, consumers, can all choose which school policies they prefer best and the free market would reign supreme.
So long as schools are not privatized, this shouldn't be done as it is clearly a form of oppression. Hence until schools are privatized, schools must target a lowest common denominator of freedom in order to not be evil, oppressive, totalitarian.

I can do that because I'm an employed adult who's already completed his education.

...

>in the ideal Ancapistani free market, parents could freely choose whether or not their children get indoctrinated to obey them
I literally see no problem with this, just like based Ron Paul intended.

>But your child also isn't your BDSM slave
This come out of nowhere, absolutly no one was taling about that, even the OP.
>You as a parent have a responsibility to exercise power over them in a way that will genuinely benefit them rather than be a part of your fucked up power fantasy
exactly, that's the point...
> restrict your child's access to information and online communication
You're in school to learn things and socialize, you're not here to browse facebook.
I seriously doubt 8-14yo kids need social networks during the day when they're with their friends.

Great they made it easier for child kidnapping

>having a law for something that should be a rule made by a school

Kahn academy is better than 99. 9% of math teachers. There's also many other educational apps for topics not covered in school

This is the pragmatic way of doing things. People here seem to think that parents will actually do their fucking job but it's absurdly clear this is not the case in most of the western world. It's a middle finger by their government. "Fuck you, if you're not willing to do the good parenting, we're going to do it".

You will say "oh just teach your kid, just let schools once more, after 70000 tries, tell kids to be responsible because sure, they'll understand and their parents will as well". It doesn't just work and it's unrealistic. The effects of poor parenting in the more recent generations are utterly palpable to the point it's no wonder the government steps in.

Kids have been doing this since the dawn of time. Are you going to ban paper because kids are passing notes

Well I didnt have a phone when I was a teenager but we had the no phone in classes rule. I went to finland for a year to study after hs and I was told that its ok to have your phones or smartphone but if the teacher see that you're alway on your damn phone, he can decide to not answer your questions if you do have some. But then classes in finland have like 20 students in it so its easy for the teacher to see who use their phones.

> 1st time caught with a smartphone 100 Euro fine
> 2nd time time caught with a smartphone it get's confiscated
> 3rd time caught with a smartphone child gets a month of detention (which is not sitting around on your ass, but hard labor; like cleaning the school)
> 4th time caught with a smartphone suspension for 1 week


OP, please never go into politics.

I just want Sup Forums to ban posting from smartphones

Hahaha OK then idiots continue the indoctrination via your nanny states.!

> 1st time caught with a smartphone 100 Euro fine
There is no way any parent would allow that to be pushed on them.

>a $100 fine for bringing your own property with you
Leave it to yuropeans to come up with draconian laws that sound more like a way to tax the peasants than a way to keep order

meanwhile fa/g/s are glued to their desktops 24/7

My first cell phone was a bag car phone... in 2002 mostly as a communication means when I first started driving for like in case of emergency or just simple calls.

Do me a favor: put your money where your mouth is. Try using only the dedicated devices and tools you mentioned instead of your smartphone. Use a dictionary instead of a translating app. Carry around a scientific calculator. Go to the library to use the internet. After you've tried that for like a week with no smartphone come back and tell us what an enriching experience it was.

>A child under the age of 18 has no need or use in owning a smartphone.
Yeah, kids should use outdated school computers when they want to google something instead of their phones, they should use outdated and costly shit like text messages when they want to message their friends on the go, and they definitely shouldn't have a smartphone with google maps with them when they get lost in a forest during a school trip.

>Fining kids' parents when their kids bring their phones to school
Making a legal issue out of this instead of just using the school's standard disciplinary measures is a good way of wasting taxpayer money on solving a problem that doesn't even exist. I have never met a teacher in my entire life who would have been okay with letting kids goof off on their phones during class.

>1 month of hard labour
Kid is repeatedly being an asshole in class, wasting everyone's time? Verbal/written warning. Kid doesn't do homework? F. Kid reads a random, unrelated book in class? Verbal warning. Kid browses FACEBOOK for the THIRD time, wasting only their own time? Clean the fucking hallways for a month, dipshit.

>When I was at school (early 2000s) the school made it clear.
>Mobile phones are not allowed in school, if you bring one to school and it get's stolen, tough luck it's your own fault.
Pure autism, dumbphones don't even have any time-wasting capabilities except for awful games, and it forces parents to either take their kids to school, or let them go without a phone.

This is a pretty good point actually.

You have a practice being carried out which you want to stop. Instead of trying to stop the practice itself, you vent your rage on the tools used for it. You got mad at pen and paper for notes in the 60's and you get mad at smartphones in the 2010's. You're always finding the next big device to blame for little Timmy being a shitlord.

>chemistry class
>what's the melting temperature for Borum?

I used to do that when I was a kid. This shit is the epitome of "First World Problems"

>You're in school to learn things and socialize, you're not here to browse facebook.
You can learn things and socialize online. I learned more about search algorithms through wikipedia and facebook than teachers.
>I seriously doubt 8-14yo kids need social networks during the day when they're with their friends.
No one needs social networks at any point. They need shelter and food. We're way beyond the idea of "need" here.

That’s okay, France is full of Muslims, so this law will be overturned as soon as it’s a sandnigger getting fined

>be rasheed
>in infidel science class
>on my dedicated device for communicating with ISIS and occasionally playing flappy bird
>teacher takes my phone
>I scream “RACISTE” at her
>everyone immediately begins beating the teacher for her islamaphobia
>I get to keep my phone

Me too. I used a dictionary in elementary school and a calculator in class. You know what I learned? Those things are shit. The dictionary in particular is several orders of magnitude slower than using a translator. I don't want to carry around
>phone
>calculator
>dictionary (>1kg for a single language)
>laptop
>camera
instead of just
>phone

Who cares if it's slower, it works.

You should not be teaching kids with outdated methods.

This is why we have iPads and Windows tablets in the classroom nowadays, because your methods are ancient.

This is the modern world grandpa.

Ok, then stop using your phone and start using all those things. And stop using your car and go to work/college/anywhere by foot. In fact get rid of your PC and start using the library computers. I mean, if you're demanding kids do this, why shouldn't you?

Finally.
Smartphones need to die.