They have 80.000+ characters representing words instead of just 30 characters that can form 80.000+ words

>they have 80.000+ characters representing words instead of just 30 characters that can form 80.000+ words
When did China fuck it up Sup Forums?

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bopomofo
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Any society that has not developed an alphabetic writing system is barbaric and backwards.

pinyin ;)

>he didn't have a written language for a thousand years before China

To be fair, Brazil was as isolated as could be from Afroeurasia before the Spaniards/Portuguese stepped in. Not necessarily a fair comparison imo

The funny thing is that because of the digital age, the average chinese is probable more comfortable writing in pinyin than in Chinese characters.

pinyin is for foreigners and beginners for people who type everyday they use wubi which is based on radicals and strokes

Chapingshi

The Chinese Government is teaching a bunch of kids Esperanto, as a possible replacement of English. They even teach it at university and have television, websites, and radio in the Jew-speak.

Esperanto is easier for gooks than Chinese, but English is already an established world language. Learning any other language is a waste of time.

If the Chinese can't even influence the world into adopting Mandarin, how the fuck would they manage to influence the world into adopting Jew-speak?

日本现在必须为他们的战争罪行道歉!

They haven't tried to influence the world into learning Mandarin because they know they will fail. They are only trying to influence Chinese communities abroad, like in the Philippines, Malaysia, and Canada to learn Mandarin instead of their dialects, and to have a stronger connection with mainland culture.

If for whatever reason the United States was no longer as globally relevant, I can easily see it spread Esperanto in its nearby neighbors. They're already funding it in Indonesia.

They should just addopt Spanish, why make up a new language called Esperanto that's basically the same shit?

Muh international auxiliary language.

Amusing thing is that they just need to fix it. They took the first step during the old Communist days, through simplifying common glyphs, but they didn't commit. What they should have done, decades ago, was adopt an alphabet similar to Korean and then added tonal markers. It would make Mandarin incredibly easy to learn. But they've instead gone for the over-complication route, like what Japan did, and have just added complexity where none was desired or warranted.

??????

The digital age literally saved the Chinese iconogram system. In Japan, China, and SK.

>I am ignorant: The Post

People are very irrational with language. They're attached to their inferior writing system and won't give it up. They would rather learn this Jew Language and force their trade partners to learn it.
(English is a useful lingua franca but it also has extreme cultural capital and gives extreme political power to the United States. )

I agree it's not perfect, but since it was man-made, it takes a fraction of the time to reach fluency at an academic-level. Would have been better if it had a Germanic or even Chinese vocabulary base. It sounds too Mexican for my taste.

What the fuck you guys are talking about? Both your cunt and us didn't created any language before China, we inherited the languages from the "fatherland" and made some modifications.

>they just made it worse

Simplified Chinese is unironically 40% more efficient than Tradtional Chinese.
It is easier to learn.

Just because there are a few stupid mistakes in the system, doesn't make it worse than the old Traditional Chinese.

Furthemore, after the initial reforms that worker in the 50's, there were reforms in the 80's that people actually rejected because of MUH CULTURE.

In 2013 the Chinese State Council, after consulting with linguists, created new reforms to simplified Chinese. They are generally just formalizing the solutions people came up with over the last couple decades.

Since then, 95% of Chinese learners now learn Simplified Chinese.

It was saved by computers and the digitization of language. Much like Japanese Kanji and Hanji.

The lingua Franca?

I'm saying that Chinese written language existed long before even a written Indo-European language.

It developed earlier, and therefore has flaws that the later development of latin script and, eventually, English does not.

In no way are they irrational for holding to their language. Look at Japan. Look at Korea. Try teaching 1.4 billion people a new language and writing system. Try letting go of all your linguistic history and not being able to read your history.

It's like asking French or Germans or Portuguese to let go of their language and only know English.

Meanwhile English form 300 years ago are unreadable by the average English speaker while elementary school kid in China can read Chinese text written 2000+ yr ago.

Alphabetic writing is good for the short term. Ideographic wiring are better for the long run for a civilization as it resit the ravage of time, and can be used for more than one spoken language.

English will be unrecognizable in 1000 years while Chinese remain largely the same.

:^)

Never said people were rational. Chinese will probably stay the way it is for a long time. When the language was more or less concentrated in only China they had the opportunity to re-educate Chinese speakers. They don't really have that liberty now. Chinese abroad always seem to revert back to Traditional Chinese over the Simplified, whether they're Cantons or Hans or what have you. The overseas-Chinese do not like the Simplified language. I think the present situation can be chalked up to missed opportunities. Wildly guessing about what could have been is pretty pointless, hence the dislike for "alt history" stories and books amongst anyone with a degree beyond high school.

Taiwan has an interesting system similar to what I outlined; it's called Zhuyin or Bopomofo. It's somewhat ugly, but it could be made into a nice script if Korean's compound characters were used as a template.

Not only that, but if we all used hanzi we could all understand each other on the internet without having to use a third language.

Bingo

Hanzi was created act as a universal wiring system meant to unify multiple language. It's a more of a universal writing system than a language.

People complain it's hard without trying to know why. Even today, Chinese from different region often do not understand each other, they literally speak different language. However, with a universal writing system everyone can understand each other, no matter what language they speak.

They have one, but only Taiwan uses it
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bopomofo

And if we all spoke English/Russian/Spanish/Lojban then we could all understand eachother without having to use any other languages at all. But we don't.

A Japanese reading hanzi would be like you reading Spanish. Doable, but it's not the same thing.

Except since Gutenberg English orthography has hardly changed and likely won't even if the spoken language changes.

白人不能書漢字以其低知能

t. wang zhang

>I'm saying that Chinese written language existed long before even a written Indo-European language.

>He doesnt know about Proto-Indo-European language

T. Alexander Choi

>English form 300 years ago are unreadable by the average English speaker

Yes

>Alphabetic writing is good for the short term. Ideographic wiring are better for the long run for a civilization as it resit the ravage of time

This is not endemic to written languages using alphabets. Many other written languages from long ago can be read with little difficulty by current speakers.
You should choose another language to make this claim on, since English is the special exception with the isles being fucked by a number of passing peoples and cultures,
many leaving vestiges in the language still visible today. If you look at Chinese culture throughout history, they have mostly been isolated from the other cradle civilizations
and not bearing many marks from them, as well they have had and continue to have a less than favorable view on foreigners. Simply because they are not Chinese. If you
look at the surrounding area in history, you can see the effect of Sinification on neighbors like China and Korea, and to a lesser extent, Vietnam. With their distaste for their neighbors
and xenophobic outlook, they made them more like themselves. You can see, China has had little cultural upheaval (sans Mongols), as a result, their language has not evolved like English.
You're comparing apples and oranges, Chang.

Absolute utter garbage.

I'm an Arab and I can read/understand texts perfectly fine written thousands of years ago.

And guess what? We have an alphabet.

Don't give me that sob excuse. The system that China uses is retarded. At least Korea got its shit together and used a proper alphabet (at least... I think they're using an alphabet?)

>I'm an arab

Gas yourself, subhuman.

They way their language works, they kind of have to use a writing system that is more complex than our alphabet, or else there would be too few written words for it to be effective to use. Say if you wrote "ji", it could mean hundreds of different things, but if you instead write "寄" you'll know right away which words it's refering to. Also, using chinese characters means everybody who knows any chinese language or dialect can read the same text, even if they can't actually understand one another when speaking.

Even if that were true, reading texts from thousands of years ago is functionally useless save for learning history.

>the same is lame
>is a chink robot

yeah but youre an ayyrab

arabs can barely read and write as it is, and you're expecting me to believe they were any better 1000 years ago?

wew

>they have had and continue to have a less than favorable view on foreigners. Simply because they are not Chinese.

Same can be said of nearly every nation.

>China has had little cultural upheaval (sans Mongols), as a result, their language has not evolved like English. You're comparing apples and oranges, Chang.

Fat American thinking China is monolithic... China is literally a mix of hundreds of different nation over thousands of years. It simply unified 2000yr before Europe and created a universal writing system that can resist the ravage of time.


>useless save for learning history

Maintaining civilization for thousands of years is far from useless, why you think china is the world oldest continuous civilization?

>doesn't know that Arabs invented algebra

or reading works of literature????

t. muhammad

China number one

Chinese characters are made up of a relatively small group of radicals. It's not like they're all completely unique.

As usual in all China related thread : some Chinese diaspora in new world Anglo countries stormed out with their Chinese supremacist believes and the discussion just became a shitposting

people from Arab countries invented literacy

t. achmed

t. Chinese Taipei

The arabs did have a golden age my man.

They are unique though, that's the point.

trying to learn some chinese charcters using chinese flow game am i being retarded?

i mainly want to memorize enough hanzi to be able to watch shows with subtitles and understand them that's my number one goal right now

>people unironically defending mandarin
Kys gooks, your language is shit and even if u become a superpower 10 times over, nobody will learn it, except if they want that tight chinese pussy

Any swede alive can read the Gustav Vasa bible from 1521 without a problem.

Any swede alive and drunk beyond ones senses can read the 1541 edition.
Scandinavians, feel free to try:

sv.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustav_Vasas_bibel
>1541:
>"J haffuen hördt, at thet är sagdt, Ögha för ögha, Tand för tand. Men iagh sägher idher, at j skolen icke stå thet onda emoot, Vthan är thet så, at någhor slåår tigh widh thet höghra kindbenet, så wendt honom ock thet andta til."

T. Tsiao JiJi

Republic of China, I still recognize your authority on the mainland.

Long livce Chang Kai-shek!

>mfw white boys want to learn a new language just for getting laid

Actually, I'm impressed. Good for you!

>post defending chinese
>leaf
every time

Shakespeare is legible to modern English speakers and that's 500 years old. Any English text from 1716 would be even easier to read than Shakespeare. What are you even talking about

>Chiang Kai-shek
Man fuck that guy, Chiang Ching-kuo is the realest nigga

People hate on esperanto but I think it's a pretty decent concept. I don't think it should be learned to fluency but as a stopgap if you're traveling to europe or something and don't speak the language. I already speak French and Spanish but if I were to go to Eastern Europe I'd learn the Slavic equivalent of Esperanto.

English and French should get me pretty far in Asia but if Esperanto filled the gap further I'd learn a little bit of it.

Shakespeare's work is closer to 400 years old than 500

Whatever the point is that any English speaker can read shit from 300 years ago

>French
>pretty far in Asia

This ain't the 1890s no more, literally no one in Asia speaks French other than a few in Lebanon and Vietnam

Chinese is primitive. But how did their iq happen to be so hight then? Can't help thinking about it.

ai ya

Can someone explain why is a logographic system less efficient or effective than an alphabetic one? Don't you have to memorize 80.000 different sounds, remember the order of alphabets that corresponds to that sound, and then their associated meaning too?

They desperately compete with each other and only the winners get to go overseas. So we get a high selection bias.

Even the second/third generations are at least kids of people smart enough to get the fuck out of there

>people don't realize that alphabets and logograms have functionally different purposes.
To each problem a different tool. Hanzi was used in order to communicate between different people who spoke different languages. It would be like an Arab and a Frenchman talking together through letters without the other needing to understand the others language.

And the two things they are good at is math and cheating.

Yes but learning to read and write will be extremely easy if your writing system is limited by the amount of phonemes in your language, compared to also remembering 80.000 separate characters

using an alphabet I can write down a word I have never seen written before and expect 99% accuracy. If that word had a character i had never seen before i'd be fucked and unable to write it.

>Don't you have to memorize 80.000 different sounds, remember the order of alphabets that corresponds to that sound, and then their associated meaning too?
Of course. But it's retarded to add learning 80,0000 unique characters for each combination on top of all that when you can form a word for the combination out of common characters. You're not actually even talking about memorizing the writing but the word, which chinese have to do also. Difference with western words is that most of he time you don't have to learn the word AND how to write it separately. Of course there are words in english which are pronounced differently from how they are written, but those are marginal cases at best.

False.

He's quite evidently not Chinese.

>flag
>chinkposting

Like pottery

You don't memorise sounds with an alphabet, you deduce them.

You don't remember the order of alphabets, since phonetics is a thing.

Both systems require you to remember their associated meanings.

See

chinks should invent new easy to learn alphabet that helps project soft power

what do you think chinkos

I think chinks should all learn English to communicate better with our masters the White Men.

Chinese grammar is relatively primitive, the words never change forms, the syllables are just building blocks that can be thrown after each other. Also there's so many homophones and using hanzi helps telling them apart.
Besides there isn't a unique character for every fucking word, you can form a shitton of words using only 100 of them.

Different languages evolve differently, different writing systems are used for a reason. You can't write european languages using hanzi, and while you could use latin for chinese it wouldn't be effective

Noone speaks French here mate. The students are even shit at English.

Explain this
>lecourrier.vn/

I'm a little confused- are you saying the advantage of an alphabetic system is its better capability to transliterate sounds into words? But aren't there are also many ways to do it within the English language, for example:

>bear
>bare
>beyr
>beir

etcetcetc.

Granted, you can transliterate what was being said into writing better with the alphabetical system, but it isn't exactly better in helping a reader understand what you're saying.


But you do- you have to learn to write English words separately. For the longest time I was always amused by the fact that American posters couldn't differentiate you're and your, but then i realised that it was because they were thinking of the sounds first before the associated word. So they just transliterated their phonetic thoughts into alphabets.

Perhaps chinese people think in terms of meaning first, and the sounds are secondary. Like said, perhaps for the reason that in east asia there are different languages, and that different cultures associate varying sounds with the particular word. I'm not too sure, I'm just a hobbyist linguist.

But my point is that I never understood why people said alphabetical systems were superior to logographic ones. I studied english and mandarin from young and each had their own difficulties, but i wouldn't say that either was more difficult than the other. and when you consider than language is more than just speech but also writing, then you start seeing the innate advantages of logographic systems.

French language is dead here, except with a few loanword like sơ mi (chemise), or xà bông (savon), more people know Japanese (taught in some schools) and Korean than French.

I learn French by myself, because nobody knows it.

>lecourrier.vn/
I don't know this site. Mayby it's for oversea Vietnamese French.

>I'm a little confused- are you saying the advantage of an alphabetic system is its better capability to transliterate sounds into words? But aren't there are also many ways to do it within the English language, for example:
The English language is the single worst example of how alphabets can be phonetic.

Also there are many more tonal variaties of the same pronounciation, which in chinese makes perfect sense but need context otherwise you'd be confused of what they mean, but in english it is logically flawed when a word can pronounce the same but have different spelling. This is also why there are so many more pun-jokes in chinese which work flawlessly.

That isn't the fundamental reason why Chinese characters were created.

Additionally many East Asian languages are different in grammar. Chinese cognates are everywhere in at least four language families and an isolate. Even though characters used might be the same doesn't mean comprehensibility between languages is guaranteed.

ффф

Фoтo? Дaшa?

Few actual words (not characters) have the exact same pronunciation. Add that to context and I don't see the problem with a localised alphabet (perhaps newly developed) being used.

Care to elaborate on why the logographic system was created for? Genuinely interested to learn. I thought it to be a system that valued comprehension from a written script rather than the capability to transliterate.

Pourquoi vous apprenez la langue du Français? Une langue du morte en Asie, non? Je je voudrais apprendre Français, but then I remember it's only useful in Sub-Saharan Africa now :(

>Developed states that use Chinese characters (Taiwan, Japan) don't have low literacy rates
>Characters are made up of radicals like how words are made up of alphabets
>You can guess reading and meaning
>Chinese people can learn other languages anyway

Because i like way it sound, Russian used to be fairly popular too. But now it completely disappears.

Representation of meaning. That is all. Cognates have similar pronunciations because they are derived from Chinese, and as a result can use Chinese characters. It is not because cognates exist that Chinese uses a hieroglyphic writing system; cognates are derived from Chinese in the first place.

Although your point is partially true- the application of characters to cognates in languages barely related (ignoring vocabulary) is advantageous in that definitions can be deduced from small pieces of text. But grammatical differences (languages heavily influenced by Chinese include Austronesian, Tai-Kadai, Austroasiatic, Hmong-Mien, Japonic and Korean languages) makes that ability insignificant when dealing with longer texts.

Moi aussi, but why fucking Russian of everything? Soviet ties in the past?

Literacy rates don't depend on the script that is used.
Characters are made of radicals, but many of these have no intrinsic meaning, and although a vague meaning of a character is often conveyed, a specific meaning for each character has to be learnt.
Chinese people being able to learn something else is irrelevant.

Yes, i think that schools used to teach mainly Russian and Chinese before the fall of Soviet.

>People hate on esperanto but I think it's a pretty decent concept.

But the execution is lacking. I think Lojban is the best solution.

That sounds about right- the development of varying dialects/languages and their cognates probably developed in tandem with the written script.

I get that literary texts probably wouldn't be understood by a Hmong person, but simpler texts would be comprehensible? Veering into the speculative here, but I would assume that literary texts weren't the message intended to be transmitted by guanhua- the language of bureaucrats.