Is pic related the best messaging app as a compromise between normie friendly and security/non-botnet?

Is pic related the best messaging app as a compromise between normie friendly and security/non-botnet?
I don't want to use things like Discord but at the same time I don't think I'd have much luck getting people to use Signal, IRC, etc.

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i.imgur.com/YMC6hSf.gif
git.teknik.io/mayfrost/guides/src/branch/master/IRC.md
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I use telegram for non-normie comms. Discord is the bad guys. Signal is Discordian trash. IRC operators are very easily compromised.

Why not use silence?

I think so, but it strongly discourages the use of secret messages.
Making calls creates a normal chat instance and desktop version directly does not support them, for example.

>secure
>telegram
choose exactly one because they 1) roll their own crypto 2) disable e2e by default and discourage it

even whatsapp is more secure with it's end-to-end encryption

And yet it has a foss client on f-droid and it's not own by facebook.
I don't think whatsapp is a better option but yes, telegram is pretty bad.
Also Signal require google botnet in order to work.

Signal doesn't require Google, it's only recommended so Signal can wake your phone to notify you of a message. All apps need Google libs to accomplish that.

What about Wire? I like how it doesn't require a phone number.

Actually even whatsapp is more secure by default than that piece of shit.

It does, It requires a google closed source library and that's why it is not published on fdroid.
Even if that was the case it's stupid to add that closed source library.
It's preferable to lose that function, although I doubt it's the only way to do that.
I haven't tried it yet. I avoid to use electron based software.

Wire is fucking awesome. Aside from that, I recommend Matrix applications like Riot and WeeChat (which is also great for IRC).

It is. I managed to get most of my friends and contacts to switch from WhatsApp to Telegram.

>Is pic related the best messaging app as a compromise between normie friendly and security/non-botnet?
>non-botnet
But it is

>your shit gets stored in their servers
>Refuses to use the best known crypto teks

Yes goym it's completely safe

We've been through this before, Pavel Durov shill. Telegram is fucking garbage and nothing about it is secure.

You are actually better off with Discord (at least it does not pretend to be secure in ways it is not).

Signal is good. Wire is good (and doesn't require a phone number, so can be used on tablets). WhatsApp is good, except it's owned by Facebook (easily the most normie-friendly by far, literally a billion people already have it).

True.

Accurate.

Specifically: recent versions of Signal no longer require anything from Google (although it is strongly recommended as in recent versions of Android, Google Play Services' GCM is the ONLY wakelock that works in snooze/battery saver mode - and you did want to actually get your messages, right? Without that, you will need to give it permanent wakelock permission and it will draw more battery).

Meanwhile F-droid had/has a huge signing hole. Don't go holding that up as any paragon of anything, it's complete fucking garbage.

Well done. You literally convinced them to go from something more secure to something less secure, you fucking moron. You absolute piss machine. You human garbage.

Telegram is shit. Don't use it.

>t. Jewberg

>Meanwhile F-droid had/has a huge signing hole. Don't go holding that up as any paragon of anything, it's complete fucking garbage.
sauce

i.imgur.com/YMC6hSf.gif

does signal support user ids? I don't like to give my number

>so many shills but no1 knows
really makes you think

>not using Signal
signal.org/android/apk

>linking on an imageboard

>getting people to use IRC
Use simple apps like Atomic, is easy. Also you dont need to have an account to use IRC, tell your friends that.

Have a guide git.teknik.io/mayfrost/guides/src/branch/master/IRC.md

>shits on open source projects without giving any proof
>suggest commercial products with terrible history of disrespecting user privacy and collaborating with us intelligence
Who's the shill again?

Wish I could rice signal because it works as an sms app.

I switched over to telegram cause at the time Facebook messenger ran like fucking shit

Seriously I have no idea who you're referring to. I have my differences with Moxie (mostly around his distaste for federation).

If you mean Facebook, I have a series of serious disagreements with them, mostly surrounding their 'real name' and 'community' policies - by the way, they're currently getting sued in France for the WhatsApp number sharing thing.

They were unresponsive to the v1 APK RSA signing issue, although in fairness on looking again it does look like they fixed it now.

I understand your issue. Unfortunately not. It may happen in the future, but currently this is the niche Wire excels at, and I suggest using that instead.

Which open-source project did you mean? Signal? Wire? I recommended both of those - in fact they are my first picks.

Neither WhatsApp nor Discord are commercial, although they are unfortunately proprietary (and use numerous open-source components with permissive licences).

Nothing stops you from compiling your own and using it with the official servers. Go ahead and rice. Moxie wouldn't like you to distribute unofficial builds that use the official servers. I disagree with him about that, and think that's a return to the attitudes of the bad old days of walled-garden instant messengers.

XMPP/Conversations is the only acceptable answer to private communications. The servers are decentralized and you can run your own if you want, much like email. The protocol supports multi-end encryption and message backlogging, so all of your clients get all the messages, even when they've been offline. You can access multiple accounts with one client and keep account for different purposes easily. It's literally flawless and everybody saying otherwise is a retarded botnet shill

Please fuck off, Moxie.

Go back to shilling your shitty 'muh crypto' messenger.

It would be nice if I were Moxie, because then I could:
>retry ideal-lattice-based zero-knowledge private-set intersection for contact discovery instead of giving up and just using an SGX enclave;
>then allow registration by username/email so tablets can use it too;
>stop being an arse about federation, maybe even consider building a Matrix bridge; and,
>code an actual desktop client instead of an Electron one (still an improvement over the Chrome app though).

But you know, then I'd be too busy surfing or launching some weird cryptocurrency shit.

Yeah, I'm not Moxie. I just call them as I see them.

Pretty much, yes.

>discrap isn't commercial
>discordapp.com/nitro
what did he mean by this?

My friend who shills telegram keeps saying that its better to roll your own crypto than use nsa backdoored crypto.

Kekking

You don't have to buy Discord to use it: it is not commercial software. It is, however, proprietary. The most appropriate term would probably be shareware, or maybe donationware as none of the core features of the software require any payment.

You're kekking for good reason of course; the Signal protocol doesn't have any (NSA or otherwise) backdoored crypto, and if your friend thinks AES is insecure, firstly it's Belgian and by now easily the most-studied cipher of all time - and secondly... Telegram also uses it (only Telegram uses it with the IGE block cipher mode, because they saw it in a book somewhere and have no idea what they're doing). Unless your friend also thinks there's something wrong with curve25519 (which was argued about to death by us on CFRG and was adopted because it is as transparent and reasoned as a crypto primitive can possibly be), but RSA is perfectly fucking fine (despite it being incredibly hard to do properly so that it's borderline insanity to use now, and researchers finding literal NSA backdoors in cryptographic tokens' closed source RSA key generation routines as recently as this year).

Telegram is good for group chats because you can have group moderation

I don't like how telegram allows unencrypted user to use chats, almost by default (the first option, anyway).

Signal is the best. It's all open source, the creators have said they don't care who is using it and it doesn't have dependencies on Play Services other than push notifications afaik

Any decent messenger uses the signal protocol for secure messages, the telegram people are using their own protocol (mtproto) which is probably a bad idea and their justification for using it is not particularly convincing.

>It is, however, proprietary.
there are other problems with Discord, though, namely their shutdown of right wing channels and their overzealous broad-brush attitude to categorising people as nazis is concerning

>by the way, they're currently getting sued in France for the WhatsApp number sharing thing.
what happened? did they sell the phone numbers?

>what happened? did they sell the phone numbers?
i think they used phone numbers to link people from whatsapp to their fb profile, or vica versa

the europeans want them to keep them as separate services with no overlap.

>i think they used phone numbers to link people from whatsapp to their fb profile
Ah yeah that, they even claimed they wouldn't do it.
By now they've probably implemented fb shadow profiles with the phone numbers of people that don't have an fb account and linked those profiles to real accounts on your contacts list.

You describe this as a problem: Discord's target audience describe keeping Hitler meme 'alt-right' neo-Nazi shitposters off their game servers as a feature. What you have there is a difference in perspective. Why are you not also picking on Telegram for consistently deleting (also unencrypted) Islamist groups at government request?

In any case, my point was, Discord isn't pretending to be end-to-end encrypted and content-agnostic. Its target audience don't generally mind a certain amount of moderation.

Meanwhile, more opaque, less controlled, end-to-end encrypted systems like Matrix.org/Riot, or indeed Signal (or even WhatsApp) don't have the kind of visibility which would allow for that kind of external moderation. The tradeoff/drawback of that - and bear in mind I've been working on this kind of thing for years - is that preventing abuse of strong communication systems from things like spammers, or for botnet C&Cs, is somewhere between extraordinarily hard to impossible, and that could very well grow to be a problem in time, and the last time we tried to solve that problem, we made a proof of work that ended up being turned into digital cash.

Different tools support different uses, for different users.