Is cryonics our soon to be future? BTW its not strictly anti-religous. God can press pause on your soul until you're revived.
Death of funerals: Cryonic freezing EPIDEMIC will lead to 'CRYO-PARLOURS'
A US-based cryonics expert says that freezing bodies after they die will replace funerals within a few decades.
newsweek.com
theweeklyobserver.com
metro.co.uk
So basicly if you have the scratch or use a life insurance policy ($10,000 - $200,000) at the moment of "legal death" when your heart stops depending on what country your in a cryoteam can be standing by and start pumping your lungs to continue to pump oxygen to your cells so your brain cells don't die.
Then they surround you with ice/cooling bags, then they hook you up to a heart bypass machine and replace most of your blood with cryoprotectant(specialized antifreeze) and then dump you in a tank of liquid nitrogen next to another frozen corpse, I mean, patient.
has there ever been even one case where someone was brought back successfully
Nope. Freezing cell walls makes you unrecoverable.
I'm extremely interested in cryonics. It's basically my only chance to extend my life, after all.
The whole point is to be frozen for hundreds of years so your body is still intact when the technology is available.
lol unless there's been any significant advances within the last 2 years, this shit is hopeless.
thawing people doesn't work. and the freezing process itself fucks everything up anyway. can't even properly study those ice age humans trapped in ice or other means of frozen deaths
>literally dies
>thinks there's going to be tech capable of reviving people in the future
but user, the holy grail already exists!
just ask jesus.
I'm definitely signing up to be frozen when I die, as soon as I can afford it.
>wake up in year 3000
>penis is gone
I'll pass
This meme has been 30 years away from mass adoption for 40 years
Kind of like nuclear fusion.
Not only we keep garbage human produce..
Now we keep and store by creating even more garbage the waste human leave behind after his dynamic processes cease.
>Is cryonics our soon to be future?
I sure hope so. I've been looking into it myself.
No. The point is to store patients in a way most likely to be recoverable with future technology.
>thawing people doesn't work. and the freezing process itself fucks everything up anyway.
The thought is not really that we will thaw those bodies at some point. The real expectation is that one day we'll be able to just regrow you a new body from scratch, just like we can already grow organs in the laboratory. That has the convenient side effect of fixing most of the medical problems that caused your death in the first place.
The real challenge with this approach is recovering your brain. For this body-regrowing approach to work, they will need to be able to extract your brain structure and memories from the frozen brain, and upload the whole thing into the newly-grown brain. That's why all cryonics focuses on keeping brain structure intact at all costs. Keeping the rest of the body frozen as well is really just a plan B; the expectation is that they will never actually need it when reviving you.
I regret tho that my dad died 30 days ago and I couldn't offer him that option as such technology didn't even exist here..
>For this body-regrowing approach to work, they will need to be able to extract your brain structure and memories from the frozen brain, and upload the whole thing into the newly-grown brain.
Well at that point, it's just fucking death with a clone of yourself with your memories appearing some time in the distant future.
Whatever it is that thing winds up doing while believing it's you, you're not going to experience any of that.
How can you tell if the you that wakes up in the morning is the you from yesterday?
It is 2018, user. It is long past time for that meme to die. You are your brain and can be copied and moved, get over it. Let the thousands-year-old mysticism die with dignity, please.
Because it's not within the realm of possibility for there to be two of me in the morning in the same way that you could go through what they say, only for them to realize you can actually be revived in a healthy state, go through with it, and now there's revived-body you and artificial-body you.
Are you being sarcastic?
>Are you being sarcastic?
No. I am entirely serious.
>>Is cryonics our soon to be future
it's now. You can sign up it now and get vitrified if you die. What's the point of this thread again?
>>For this body-regrowing approach to work, they will need to be able to extract your brain structure and memories from the frozen brain
that or technology to repair individual cells.
Oh fug. Now I want to be frozen
You can get your shit frozen, but there is 0 chance that anyone will want to or be able to revive you.
This desu. So there's a bunch of 21st century popsicles in the 23rd century, who is paying to revive them and for what purpose?
>at the moment of "legal death" when your heart stops
STOP RIGHT THERE
In most of the civilized world, pretty much everywhere actually, you're legally dead when your brain dies. A person with a living brain is a living person and dumping a living person into liquid nitrogen is about as illegal as it sounds. basically, you can't do that shit. You can freeze a corpse, sure, whatever, but you can't freeze a living person.
Okay, I'll humor you.
>You are your brain
This is correct and is my point.
>and can be copied and moved
Is also possible, but my point is a copy is a copy. It is not the continuation of the original.
Copy-you will believe I'm wrong, because it has the memories you had prior to the freeze, and there's no way to distinguish between memories you lived through and memories that have been implanted into you, except when it's a falsified memory and you know the memory couldn't have actually happened. Copy-you gets to enjoy life in the future in the artificially grown body with your memories and personality.
Original-you will still be there within the frozen body, awaiting whatever fate the Cryo company has for you.
I don't see why you're even having an issue with this, you mentioned it yourself. COPIED and moved. If it were simply "moved", i.e. frozen brain thawed safely and put into new body, then you would be able to enjoy life in the future inside the new body. But in the version you've described, you are copied and the copy gets moved into the new body. You remain where you are while this happens. It's not any different from a file on your computer, which is exactly what would be used inbetween retrieving your memories from your body and putting it into the new one.
Here's another way to think about it. They wouldn't have to stop at just one of you. They could continue to put your memories into new bodies after the first one is you. You can't be all of them at once. You can't see what all of those bodies are seeing all at the same time, you can't choose how all bodies are behaving at the same time just because they have your memories and personality. Why would you think the first copy would be any different than the 20 that could follow? They're each independent, both of each other and of the original.
>Is also possible, but my point is a copy is a copy. It is not the continuation of the original.
Why not? There can be multiple continuations of the same original.
>I don't see why you're even having an issue with this, you mentioned it yourself.
When I said "you are your brain", I meant in particular that there no remaining bit that makes you "you" other than your brain. If your brain is copied, "you" as a person are copied. There is no such thing as an original and a copy that is a distinct from-scratch person; there are two identical (for now, though that won't last) people who are both a continuation of the same original person, and neither of them holds a privileged position.
>If it were simply "moved", i.e. frozen brain thawed safely and put into new body, then you would be able to enjoy life in the future inside the new body.
What makes you think this is fundamentally different from building a copy and then destroying the old one?
>But in the version you've described, you are copied and the copy gets moved into the new body. You remain where you are while this happens. It's not any different from a file on your computer, which is exactly what would be used inbetween retrieving your memories from your body and putting it into the new one.
Precisely.
>Here's another way to think about it. They wouldn't have to stop at just one of you. They could continue to put your memories into new bodies after the first one is you.
Yes, they could.
>You can't be all of them at once.
No, but there can be multiple independent "you"s after the process. You fork(), and the person-who-died continues along multiple independent paths simultaneously.
>Why would you think the first copy would be any different than the 20 that could follow? They're each independent, both of each other and of the original.
It seems we are in agreement.
you just haven't unlocked it user
gotta git gud first familam
>hundreds of years later, someone finds tanks full of frozen people
>what the hell, did they thought you can just defrost someone and fix him up? people were such a retards in 2000's
Wow user that is some fantastic edge you got there. Be carefull to not cut yourself with it.
>As if anyone in a few 100 years time would want to bring back us neanderthals other than for curiositys sake.
I know, right? That edge is part of a razor I got from a guy called Occam. It has proven itself an excellent tool, though you do need same care to handle it safely.
A copy of your brain would be a duplicate. It would more than one of you. The original 'you' dies. So it would not be the real you anymore. When you sleep you are still you. When you die the real you would cease to exist. So you are still going to die even if you get copied. It's like the whole Star Trek transporter argument. You get scattered into a bazillion atoms and reconstructed at the other end. But the original has to be destroyed in order to do so. But is it really? I say no. We are analog beings not digital duplicates. This brings up the whole argument of whether we have a soul/spirit or not.
>But is it really you?
Fixed
What about just transplanting the brain instead of duplicating it? If your conciousness dies and your brain just gets copied then it really is pointless since you won‘t experience any of it
>If your conciousness dies and your brain just gets copied then it really is pointless since you won‘t experience any of it
That's assuming your consciousness is a separate thing from your brain, which is almost certainly not the case. I imagine it would be no different than waking up from a coma, which also involves a breakdown and then restoration of consciousness.
pretty much.
>retards will spend money on this stupid shit.
>Nope. Freezing cell walls makes you unrecoverable.
Only if you don't use a proper cryropreservant and can flash freeze quick enough. The later can be done with magnets. The first part is much harder. We can make cryopreservant, but toxic stuff! Can't be toxic. There is a few substances being studied.
Umm... the fuck? The goddamn power usage would be insane!
Where are we going to keep all that?
Do you have any idea how many people die all the time?
>power usage
insulation, isolation, dunno which word is right. isolate heat perfectly and you only need to freeze them once, isolate it a bit less perfectly and you only need to run the freezer once a year
>how many people die
it's meant to be expensive stuff for wealthy people, not alternative to graves
>Let the thousands-year-old mysticism die with dignity, please.
almost got me, you sly dog you
Maybe it can be used in combination with
I'd rather die
if the freezing was shit it doesn't matter what technology we get in the future
the point of cryo is to store dying people, so you can fix the dying part in the future, not freezing them and then fixing the thawing in the future
Once our soul leaves your body, it's all over.
Even if some 2050 scientist can revive you, there won't be anyone home.
It would be a soulless she'll.
There are people in 2018 on /sci/ that actually believe this.
Your consciousness is your brain (the object) and your brain exists within your body. Your consciousness is an awareness of your brain living and your body living. When your body ceases to live you cease to be conscious and in a couple minutes the ability of your body to ever be aware of itself again is permanently lost.
If a perfect facsimile is made of your body It will be just like you but it wont be the same animate object as you. It will be an entirely different object. It's consciousness will pick up exactly where your left off. But that in no way means that your consciousness will continue into it.
None of the supposed "cryo-protectants" actually work. They claim that it is effective because they are making tons of money from doing this fraudulent bullshit (which should be illegal if you ask me). The fact of it is, we don't actually have any method to prevent the severe cell damage resulting from the freezing process; at least not yet. There are some special methods that can be used which CAN discourage the formation of ice crystals, but only up to a point, and you'd need to figure out a way to apply it to every cell in the body. Circulating some gimmick antifreeze through the blood vessels before freezing the body is not good enough, and none of these people who are currently on ice will ever have a chance at being revived.
If we want to be a bit more realistic, it's probably easier to use gene therapy to induce actual hibernation, similar to bears in the winter. This is a much easier goal to achieve, and the lessons learned perfecting the process would help out a lot in developing a true solution for suspended animation. Throwing corpses in liquid nitrogen accomplishes nothing, wastes energy, and wastes space. Think about how much space it would take to store a few million people in vats filled with liquid nitrogen, and how much energy it would take to keep those vats at the required temperature. And in the end, it would still be totally useless because it doesn't actually work. I guess we should just count ourselves lucky that it's a scam that only affects the rich.
I really would not be surprised at all to see a head transplant happen.
As long as it's possible to reconnect the spinal cord, head transplants should be possible. We've already seen experiments where they can regrow lengths of spinal cord by soaking a mesh in stem cells and bridging the gap. Ideally though, you'd want some method of IMMEDIATELY rejoining the nerves, since it's troublesome to keep the brain and body alive while waiting for the connections to slowly repair.
Have there been any studies done on the long term effects on the body of not receiving any signals from the brain? I know the heart can be induced to pump with electricity so the body could theoretically survive cut off from the brain until the spinal cord properly healed, but surely some other problems would emerge over time, no?
>tfw riding out this body waiting for some method of immortality to get invented so I can live forever.
my biggest worry about crygenics/hibernation is that there wont be any incentive for the future to revive me will there? they'll either keep my asleep until the end of time or just unplug the machine and throw the whole thing in a future landfill
What the fuck does Occam's razor have ANYTHING to do with this?
>If a perfect facsimile is made of your body It will be just like you but it wont be the same animate object as you. It will be an entirely different object.
Are we back in ancient Greece or something? The whole is not more than the sum of its parts, and "animate objects" don't carry an objectID field with them determining whether they are the same or different. If you duplicate the body (including brain), you will also have duplicated the consciousness.
>But that in no way means that your consciousness will continue into it.
Similarly, consciousness doesn't have a personID stored in it. If you duplicate the consciousness, you have duplicated you.
...
is there a magical connection between one consciousness and another? no? then a copy will not continue the original and you will remain dead.
Who even goes there?
>If you don't believe in one specific pantheon of Palestinian mythology you're edgy
so technically they could put me in the body of a qt 3.14 girl?
SIGN ME UP
Jesus Christ you fucking brainlet, im not taking about spirituality or souls at all. If you (object a) die, creating an exact copy of you (object b) does not mean the consciousness of (object a) resumes. A copy of your consciousness can theoretically exist in another body, but the consciousness you know and love ends when your body stops living.
From the outside it will seem like you transferred your consciousness to another body, as your copy will pick up right where you left off. But as far as your personal experience goes, it ends when you personally die.
this user gets it
I used to believe in the whole "backup copy" of your brain until I realized what would probably happen is If you linked and uploaded a copy of your brain to a neural network, your copy would wake up and exclaim "holy shit it worked, i'm inside the network, I uploaded my brain!" and then your physical brain with your physical body would just look at the copy from a screen and say "uh, no, i'm still outside here in the physical world diphit, there's just two of me now, and since our perspectives and location are now different, our life experiences have split off and we will now begin to form different beliefs and outlooks, so we're basically two different people now and if we split up and meet back in 5 years we won't recognize each other's personalities at all".
Just replace a neural network with a cryo example and it's the same thing, I don't believe in an intrinsic mystic property, but I think there must be some metaphysical law that we haven't quantified yet where copy and replace of brain = same person (previous version destroyed) or something of that extent.
>Sup Forums debating philosophy of the mind
Just stick to Arch ricing, at least youre good at it.
soylent green
Hm... that is a good question. Under normal circumstances, your genes cannot construct the body of a girl, so that is tricky; but likely feasible eventually.
The harder problem is that your brain is not built to control a girl's body. Much less to have a girl's psyche. Fixing that without making you a seriously different person sounds like a very difficult problem.
You can if you legally sign your body over to the company
>For this body-regrowing approach to work, they will need to be able to extract your brain structure and memories from the frozen brain, and upload the whole thing into the newly-grown brain
So you're still dead but there's a alias of your mind walking around.
>This is my grandfather's axe, my father replaced the handle and I replaced the head.
>How can you tell if the you that wakes up in the morning is the you from yesterday?
Because I don't wake up in the morning with there being a recursive set of my own selves.
You make one but the data is there, make four and which is the real you?
>What makes you think this is fundamentally different from building a copy and then destroying the old one?
Because by definition the "old one" is the original and the copy is a copy. It's a duplication, a facsimile, someone who grew up with the same memories of you is not you. A copy is not an original.
In the future your body will be in a landfill and the cryogenic chamber that contained it will be in a museum full of people laughing at you and others who thought the dead could be reanimated.
>It's a duplication, a facsimile
Correct
>someone who grew up with the same memories of you is not you. A copy is not an original.
Wrong. You aren't the meat that makes you, but the patterns of the neurons in your head. Provided your patterns continue to exist, by definition so do you.
But the previous you has ceased to exist. There is a you, but it's not the same you.
The previous you continues to exist though. The active pattern of neurons, whether they be a digital simulation or a copy. Again, you aren't meat, but the pattern in which the meat is arranged. If that pattern is created by some other means then you still exist.
If I stir your brain around with a soup spoon, by your definition you're still alive. All the meats there after all!
It won't be immortality though. You die, then an exact copy takes your place. Sure there would be a you, but it won't be the you. You're no more connected to this reanimated you than you are to anyone else. It shares the memories you had up until your death, but that's all.
>Sure there would be a you, but it won't be the you
No difference
>You're no more connected to this reanimated you than you are to anyone else
Wrong. I AM my memories, experiences, reactions and thoughts. Nothing else.
>No difference
There's a very important one, you're fucking dead.
>Wrong. I AM my memories, experiences, reactions and thoughts. Nothing else.
So let's say they were able to clone your brain while you're alive and make a second you. Are you able to see through the second you's eyes and feel what he feels?
>There's a very important one, you're fucking dead.
My old body's rotting, but I'm not dead. I hate to keep repeating myself, but I am not my body, I am only my mind.
>Are you able to see through the second you's eyes and feel what he feels?
Why would I be able to see through its eyes or feel what it feels? What do differing experiences of copies have to do with whether it's me or not?
>My old body's rotting, but I'm not dead. I hate to keep repeating myself, but I am not my body, I am only my mind.
You can repeat it all you want, it's still not going to make sense.
>Why would I be able to see through its eyes or feel what it feels?
Because you're you. If you can't see through a copy of your mind's new body, what makes that magical transition if the original you dies before they make the copy? Again, there will be another you, but it won't be you.
>What do differing experiences of copies have to do with whether it's me or not?
Long term I think cryo will become unnecessary unless someone wants to "sleep" for a long time. It'll probably start with easily cloneable organs, and then maybe gene splicing with regenerative or regressive abilities, maybe eventually being aided by nanotechnology.
The clone organ scenario is pretty close today, with the only exception perhaps being the brain. Wealthy people will soon be a patchwork of organs, and maybe even have full skin replacement jobs to attempt to look youthful again.
>You can repeat it all you want, it's still not going to make sense. It literally makes perfect sense. You keep thinking that who you are is tied to some chunk of meat, but really it's not. If you woke up in a different body tomorrow, or one by one all your cells were replaced with artificial ones, would it ever stop being you? Obviously not. You aren't any physical pert of your body, but the arrangement of the neurons in your brain. You are a pattern, not meat. Meat just so happens to be the hardware you run on.
>Because you're you.
What does this even mean?
>If you can't see through a copy of your mind's new body, what makes that magical transition if the original you dies before they make the copy?
There is no magical transition. There's a straight continuance of consciousness from the moment the pattern is copied and when its implemented. If the bodies dead before hand, then it would be a memory of dying and then immediately the memory of waking up in a new body.
The copies might diverge immediately, but they are you as much as you are the same you from 5 mins ago.
Meant:
>You can repeat it all you want, it's still not going to make sense.
It literally makes perfect sense. You keep thinking that who you are is tied to some chunk of meat, but really it's not. If you woke up in a different body tomorrow, or one by one all your cells were replaced with artificial ones, would it ever stop being you?
Obviously not. You aren't any physical part of your body, but the arrangement of the neurons in your brain. You are a pattern, not meat. Meat just so happens to be the hardware you run on.
>What does this even mean?
If all you are is your mind, and your mind is in two bodies, you should have full control over both sets of organs. After all, you are in both bodies. I'm assuming that you're against the idea of an afterlife, but for the sake of the example let's have it take the place of nothingness after death. You die. You go to the spiritual realm. You watch some scientists reanimate your body, you watch them upload a copy of your mind, and you watch it work. Yes, there is now a new you on Earth, but you, the real you, is still in the afterlife, just like you'd still be nothing without an afterlife.
If all you are is your mind, and your mind is in two bodies, you should have full control over both sets of organs.
If you want to view it that way then I do have full control over both bodies, just each is controlled by a separate me. The minds aren't linked in any way other than they both fork from the same point. Both are still me.
>afterlife stuff
Now there's two me's then, one in the afterlife and one on earth. Both are just as correct in calling themselves me.
>Now there's two me's
My whole goddamned point. You, the current you, would be fucking dead.
>The copies might diverge immediately, but they are you as much as you are the same you from 5 mins ago.
You're just arguing semantics then. There's no point in another me existing if the current me isn't experiencing what he is. I may as well just have kids.
>The current me
You still aren't getting it. If you think your the same person as you where 10 mins ago then a copy made of you 10 mins ago IS you. I really hope this sorry of technology pops up in your life time so your "copies" and "you" can get into screaming matches about how each of you the REAL you.
Whoops, moved over to phone posting and went and fucked everything up. Hope you get what I'm saying here.
All I care about is experience. If it's possible for two copies of a person to experience different things without both of them being aware of those experiences at the same time it's as good as worthless.
>If you think your the same person as you where 10 mins ago then a copy made of you 10 mins ago IS you
No, that's a 10 minute old copy of me that would become an entirely different me if it continued its existence in another body. Anything that happens to that new copy affects the you that died in no way whatsoever, there's no reason to do it unless you have some obsession with plaguing future generations with an immortal dumbass.
user hit the nail on the head
>There's no point in another me existing if the current me isn't experiencing what he is.
>Is cryonics our soon to be future?
No, Jesus Christ is your only hope
Thanks OP. Just bought 100k.
Certain animals are able to survive deep freezing (Frogs for instance). If they can replicate that process there is no reason why it won't be possible to freeze people without damaging the cells. However the ultimate question is why you would want to bring someone back unless they are of some import. Average Joe's are just a burden that hold no value.
In those days men will seek death but will not find it. They will desire to die, but death will elude them. (Revelation 9:6)
Each is still experiencing things though. Hell, if you want to you can both decide to do exactly the same things and virtually eliminate divergence. Don't see why you would though, waste.
>No, that's a 10 minute old copy of me that would become an entirely different me if it continued its existence in another body.
Haha, your "copy" would say that the "real you" accumulating experiences sperate from it makes you not the real you. Don't you see the paradox yet? Both of you have diverged from the same point, becoming different than the original point of origin by accumulating new experiences. Yet why then is only one of the two real? Your only argument is because it's made of older meat it wins. I have to sounds like a hippy, but let your ego die.
Your brain is constantly being renewed. You are not the same person as yesterday anyway.
BTW typing 'V1 UNSUPPORTED' works
Wasn't that only meant to be for like 5 months. Book of revelations conformed for a fictitious vision from the enemy.
Why don't you read it for yourself and ask the Holy Spirit for guidance?
I have read it several times.
A declaration that one third of the earth will be destroyed seems very ungodly to me.
>your "copy" would say that the "real you" accumulating experiences sperate from it makes you not the real you.
Regardless of who the copy thinks the original is I would nonetheless be the original me. A real me who doesn't see what the copy sees or feel what the copy feels and therefore doesn't care for the copy's existence.
The bible contains many lies from the enemy.
It is ungodly, that's because Satan's the one doing it and mankind doesn't repent
Also Satan has read the Bible as well many times, what does that make him?