Arch has never been a minimalist distribution. Splitting packages is rare compared to other distributions, and dependencies aren't made optional whenever possible. Arch has *never* been minimalist... a Linux kernel with every module available and every feature enabled at least when there's no non-bloat related cost, feature-packed/complex GNU tools, nearly all optional features enabled across all the packages, etc.
>pacman is fast but not safe, it tends to break shit and config protection is implemented in a terrible way >there is no official process to verify that a package is stable within the distro, in other distros a lot of packages are in a testing repo despite that specific package's developer claiming it to be stable on its own, because it might not be stable within the environment of a specific distro >a lot of AUR packages pull from upstream, which means they could be very unstable >(arch vs gentoo related) arch users complain about muh compile time when it comes to gentoo, while in fact they compile a lot of AUR packages themselves, namely the *-git packages that pull the source from a git repo >but it gets even better: they only compile a handful of packages, and those not being libraries mostly, the self-compiled packages get linked against precompiled libraries from a different setup (e.g. different optimization levels), which can then cause even more instability because it's a clusterfuck of unequal shit >arch uses (((systemd))) and switching to something else is hard >apparently the vim package on arch pulls in X, so if you want to have a fancy terminal text editor on a headless server, you to install a shit ton of GUI stuff you'll never need nor use >maintainer told the guy who complained to just symlink vi to vim (vi is inferior)
Julian Wilson
Reposting autistic minimalism rant:
The thing for me when it come to this is that I'm kinda disgusted by the amount of bloat in popular applications and environments.
Let's take the picture viewer as an example. What does it do? That's right! It views pictures! We have also seen picture viewers that can run with very tiny amounts of ram, and do their job pretty well. Why then should we be using a picture viewer that does the exact same practical thing as this minimal picture viewer, but is 10+ times heavier?
I've heard this a lot, the whole "lel just get a newer computer grandpa!" I'd like to let you know that I use minimal setups both on a 2012 Fagbook Pro, and a Xeon workstation being used as a desktop. Both of these have 16+ GB of memory. What you have to understand is that just because we have the resources, doesn't mean it's right to use them to the limit. Why should we artificially use more resources for the same tasks just because we have the capability to do it. That's retarded. At that point we should just rewrite the kernel in electron because clearly anyone who has a problem with that just needs to download more wam.
Another key component for me is that achieving a high level of minimalism often involves switching to a vey terminal-heavy lifestyle. This is good as it provides a universal interface. The interface used to shitpost, consume content, and whatnot, is the same interface that would be used when administering a server, when configuring my NAS, when working with Amazon EC2 installations, etc.
Why do you hate keeping things simple? Why do you want things to use more resources than they have to to complete their function?
You're just asking for me to shit all over your naivete and your narrow worldview of software design. Minimalist software means less features, less code, and smaller codebases. This is not always ideal, and usually means the program and it's algorithms were written in the most naive, simplest way possible, with no room for optimization. Take for example, bubblesort. It's very simple and only requires 2 for-loops, yet it's extremely slow as opposed to something like quicksort which can be over 100 lines of code and difficult to understand, but extremely performant for sorting non-trivial datasets.
It also means that your program makes zero attempt to cover edge cases which throws away opportunity for performance enhancements or even quality of life feature improvements. As a simple example, go look at that piss basic x window manager written in 20 lines of code. Just the code required to implement a piss basic feature you take for granted like snapping the window to the sides or dragging the titlebar to the top of the screen to maximize would be much more than 100 lines of code.
Nicholas Nguyen
>Minimalist software means less features stopped here
Kayden Perry
Who is this cute girl?
Austin Lopez
that's a boy
Alexander Morgan
its a boy!
Eli Howard
uwu fag, you don't need to post this everytime.... Also thanks for making the new thread, i was gonna do it anyway
Levi Fisher
I tried to use a minimalist wm, but I ran back to xfce after I realized none of them support modern EMWH/NetWM syscalls for scripting windows. Plus, I missed the little things, like decent font rendering.
Chase Richardson
yes i do and you're welcome!
William Evans
>Minimalist software means less features, less code, and smaller codebases.
This thread targets on these subjects >OS >DE/WM >Video/Music player >Image viewer >File Manager >Text Editor >Shell >Web Browser >Terminal And nothing else.
Cameron Clark
Those are all software that would stand to benefit from large featuresets and optimization.
suckless and the people that run it are fucking autistic
WOW GUI SETTINGS PANELS FOR A GUI APPLICATION IS BLOAT! Better make the user edit the settings in the SOURCE CODE and recompile if they want to change the defaults.
Mason Ross
>featuresets and optimization. Why do you want to add 100+ features to a program?
Easton Kelly
>comes into a minimalism thread >shits on minimalism You have to go back bloated fag. You sound like a butt hurt developer. Fucking kek
Matthew Perez
Long time lurker. What does it mean if I like minimalism but hate everyone who posts here?
Bentley Thomas
>autists have to repost the same copypasta to convince themselves that a distro they are too stupid to use is actually bad
Nathaniel Ward
To be fair, recompiling everything is pretty autistic. I think having a regular config file is good enough, just like i3, bspwm, and herb slut wm
Although if you're going for MAXIMUM MINIMALISM, then the most minimal tiling WM does require a recompile (Franken)
Elijah Ramirez
>posting the guy who runs full blown fedora
Jaxon Thomas
>>a distro they are too stupid to use >Gentoo is listed as acceptable in the OP yeah no
Wyatt Reyes
literally a quote from suckless >Because dwm is customized through editing its source code, it’s pointless to make binary packages of it. This keeps its userbase small and elitist. Says everything you need to know about those people
Jeremiah Russell
>openbox uses more RAM than the whole idle Win95
Wyatt Edwards
Forget that, look at AwesomeWM! What the fuck happened?
Cooper Sanchez
Where's bspwm?
Easton Collins
the person who made this left it out because it requires a keybinding daemon, which makes it harder to determine. Although someone said that bspwm itself (without the daemon) is 1.1M. In between musca and herbslut
Colton Hughes
And after all this elitism and autism, they aren't even the lightest wm
Charles Wright
The reason I prefer minimalism while using *nix isn't primarily because of autism, but rather because it's the only way the freetards can get it right.
It's 2018 and "desktop linux" is still a sorry sack of shit, not just to use, but to develop for as well. Not only are there no standards, but the target is constantly shifting.
So yes, gui setting panels are bloat, because they're almost always disgusting, disorganized, and have absolutely no sense of conformity whatsoever with the 32492485234582 different desktop environments. It's just a waste of the developer's time, they are going to fuck it up anyway.
So just stick with a text config and spend that time somewhere else. There will probably be some 12 year old who read daddy's first GTK application who's willing to do that shitty GUI editor for you anyway.
Editting text configs is annoying and autistic, but it's consistent and can be implemented in a second for the developer, who already has enough shit to worry about trying to make software for freetards.
If I don't want to sit there editting config files like an autist all day (and believe me, I don't) then I just suck it up and use Windows.
Chase Rodriguez
Jokes on fucking you, i use vanilla dwm. It works perfectly. I don't waste my time ricing.
Chase Moore
A nice quote
"Minimalism = A very good thing Too much of something is never good."
Robert Gray
owo
Logan Richardson
What is the point in this post? If you don't want to use Linux then use something else... It sounds to me like you hate freedom of choice. You just want big daddy developer to tell you what to use, and how to use it. That's a mactoddler's mindset. Someone who truly respects freedom would champion the people who contribute to free and open software. They would understand that fragmentation is choice and choices mean freedom.
>You just want big daddy developer to tell you what to use, and how to use it ok so that daddy talk was hot OwO, but i agree with this.
I think its part of why windows and mac users dont like linux. They want a centralized OS coming from one source. Although with the way pooterring and redhat are going, they may get their wish.
Benjamin Russell
>They want a centralized OS coming from one source. Why don't they try BSD, then?
Lincoln Thompson
>palemoon >virtualbox
Colton Price
literally who?
Aaron Johnson
also, to clarify, I obviously know what BSD is, but still, it's even more "literally who" than GNU/Loonix also all the GUI software is just GNU/Loonix stuff ported over. Same shit.
Andrew Brown
Yes, but they are all centralized, distinct OSes coming from one source each.
>also all the GUI software is just GNU/Loonix stuff ported over. Same shit. Yes, but "GUI software" is not what Poeterring or Red Hat are tackling - if anything, GNOME is, but a lot of DEs and software is also moving to Qt at the same time.
Samuel Wilson
There is nothing wrong using kde or whatever. Its just that gnu/linux is soo customizable that you can take out bunch of bloat from your computer
Oliver Johnson
yay you get it! ^.^
Jordan Parker
Avatarfagging is against the rules.
Please refrain from posting your cartoon twinks to signify that's it's you posting. No one fucking cares.
Alexander Turner
ok sorry
Jacob Collins
Shitty lua modules moved into the default config I guess. Also it isn't maintained by the original guy anymore.
Luke Bennett
Some of them do do EWMH and font rendering is unrelated.
Jordan Wilson
>decent font rendering >he calls letter smearing "decent font rendering"
Alexander Young
So where does sway fit in there?
Ryan Howard
Debian wiki and google couldn't explain me how to install wifi drivers or 6 year old Radeon card drivers for the latest version.
So I went Fedora. But it's a little limited compatibility wise (though its wonderful how everything just werks out the box).
Is it worth giving Debian another shot? I'd go GNOME btw, because I came from XFCE but tried GNOME when installing Fedora and its great. Stable and stays out of the way (unlike KDE)
William Anderson
bump
Carson Harris
>wayland
Jordan Howard
yes
Hudson Morgan
I need an alternative for Network Manager.
Also anyone with Debian, what's your package count. I know it's not a good indicator of minimalism, but I'm at 1400 and use my laptop for data analysis, visualization, machine learning, and robotics.
Connor Lewis
sounds more minimal to me
Liam Butler
This i'd like to know. Network Manager is probably bloat or something, but nothing else out there is as simple to use. I hear Connman is good, so maybe that?
>Debian good >i3 use dwm >mpd+ncmpcpcpcpcpcp.... cmus >feh good >ranger use your shell as your file manager >nvim idk, just use nano or vim >bash mksh, bash is bloated >qutebrowser cool i guess >Urxvt good
Matthew King
Well tell me what distro you are using
Joseph Bailey
Shouldn't it be the same with any distro?
Caleb Garcia
No, it kinda differs
Owen Myers
that's really fuckin gay, and not in the good way, owo. Debian and Void.
Zachary Jenkins
Was thinking about dwm, but not sure if it's really a benefit to learn something new. It's not like i3 is slowing me down.
Ian Mitchell
>mksh, bash is bloated screw both of them. use ksh93.
Noah Sanchez
Just keep using i3. That way when its time to move to Wayland, you can keep your config (sway will accept your i3 dotfile)
Ayden Garcia
You gotta know which wifi driver to install first. (very important) wiki.debian.org/WiFi
Then you go here and look at wpa_supplicant config
There isn't any learning curve, its barebones . Just try it man
Jose Butler
okay? Tell me why mksh is shit? It's really fucking fast. I'd rather use ash than ksh93
Michael Russell
ksh93 is apparently even faster than mksh according to a benchmark I saw, it has better shell scripting features like floating point arithmetic (might be useful if you script a lot), and its tab completion is pretty unique.
Julian Mitchell
so just to connect to wifi, I have to edit some file and put the ssid and hash and stuff into it? yeah fuck that
Aiden Howard
idk but i follow this man. suckless.org/rocks mksh, dash and ash are the only minimal ones i know. ksh93 seems gay and it's
Levi Anderson
wifi is bloat. I don't even have wifi drivers. I use ethernet. Ethernet is the true redpill
Carson Myers
Good for you. Unfortunately I have a laptop, so ethernet isn't feasible.
Gavin Foster
I have a laptop too... Your laptop doesn't have an ethernet port?
Camden Rivera
Nope. I'll be getting one later that has one, but currently I need wifi. Even if I got a laptop with ethernet, I would still require the ability to connect to Wifi.
Hudson Kelly
Also I have no idea why you're so surprised I need Wifi, considering that this was literally the first question I asked you. See:
Brandon Bell
>Nope. I'll be getting one later that has one You bought a shitty laptop lmao
Cameron Hughes
No love for scrotwm?
Thomas James
What does Loonix have to do with that animu character. Seriously man, get hold of yourself.
Grayson Cook
Im the original founder of this thread. This uwu fag hijacked it, he likes gay anime shit
Zachary Russell
>what does Loonix have to do with animu Many loonix contributors are weebs, ya know. Just look at their github profiles.
Cameron Flores
I cant help it!
Brody Davis
>dash and ash But you can't perform a decent shellscripting on them.
Jordan Allen
>Sees trap character >Sup Forumsay
Thomas King
whatever. wpa_supplicant looks unfeasible. connman looks way better. connmanctl scan wifi connmanctl services (prints the scan results) connmanctl connect *name of network* (may prompt for password if the wifi is protected)
