Plan 9

what went wrong Sup Forums

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qemu.11.n7.nabble.com/RFC-PATCH-0-2-9p-v9fs-read-and-write-speedup-td439706.html
marc.info/?l=9fans&m=147368333916337&w=2
9p.io/wiki/plan9/Organizations_using_Plan_9_and_Inferno/index.html
usenix.org/legacy/events/usenix05/tech/freenix/full_papers/hensbergen/hensbergen.pdf
github.com/upspin/upspin/blob/master/rpc/doc.go
emby.media
godoc.org/upspin.io/rpc
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

Not enough software

Not enough rice

Not enough drivers

not enough software
open sourced far too late
nearly every good idea was hijacked by linux and other maintream unixes

plan 9 would have been so fucking nice.

all this modern decentralized bullshit thats stapled together using shit protocols like http, when plan9 just had 9P which was infinitely better.

surprised it hasn't taken off in the whole IoT bullshit. build a plan-9 mesh of IoT shit, and then access any sensor, switch, or device as a file.

nothing, it’s a research operating system, not something for plebs who post “what went wrong” threads to use for facebook and video games

You can run it on Raspberry Pis.

no ansi c
no firefox

Plan9 was written in C

worse is better

web killed alt OSs

Part of it was a lack of software. In the mid 80s UNIX/POSIX systems had far more programs than Plan 9 did for the entirety of its existence

But what really killed Plan 9 was its failure to keep up with the rapid progress in usability other systems were making in the 80s and 90s

he said ANSI C, not just any C

RIP Plan9

>no software
>stupid UI
>stupid obsession with minimalism to the point of not having proper error dialogues
At least it doesn't use systemd. I guess it has that going for it.

9p is slow as fuck

still better than NFS

mostly licensing being awful for ages, but also the fact that it made only the barest of concessions to the way things were, and focusing entirely on what should be (and as a research project, this was probably the right way to go, but it's still kinda lame)
all that being said, if you didn't need web browsing with javascript, you could reasonably use 9front for things nowadays and it's not particularly more painful than using some minimal linux distro, and it's an interesting environment to code for

and as an aside, it's amazing how much better rio is with network transparency than X though
like, holy fuck it's embarrassing
how is X so fucking fat

hasn't pcc (their POSIX compatible ANSI C compiler) been a standard part of plan9 for ages

the UI isn't that stupid, but it does ignore about seven or so years worth of convention on other systems from when it was originally released and it's deeply unintuitive and demands a 3 button mouse in an age where two button mice were readily becoming the standard
it's simple though -- takes about thirty minutes to learn, and then you'll never think about it again
not scrolling terminals by default is also a much nicer feature than you'd expect at first (removes the need to pipe shit into less or whatever entirely, and lets you peruse program output at your leisure, although it probably shouldn't block as shortly as it does with scroll off)

you probably could do this right now (in a hacky way) on Linux with FUSE

why exactly is 9p slow? the only info I've found is
qemu.11.n7.nabble.com/RFC-PATCH-0-2-9p-v9fs-read-and-write-speedup-td439706.html
>typical bottleneck is caused by the fact that transfer of any
portion of data by many small 9p messages is slower than transfer of
the same amount of data by a single 9p message
>It is possible to reduce number of 9P messages... however, some "hardcoded"
bottlenecks are still present in the v9fs driver
that really sounds like implementation fault and not protocol limitations

bad interface for general user

Check 9front

no web browser.

It is because it uses weird commands. Most if not 99% of operating systems use the cut, copy, paste, and delete commands.

Plan 9 uses cut, paste, snarf, sort, zerox, and delcol.

I think it has a simple web browser somewhere on the internet, also don't forget everyone's favorite game Doom.

The operating system intentionally tries to not be user friendly. You can't pick up the operating system and learn how to use it in minutes like most GNU/Linux distros or any other operating system. This operating system requires you to learn how to use the UI, instead of figuring it out on your own.

And they're using v9fs to get 9P in non-plan9 oses. I suspect in a native Plan9 environment, it would work perfectly well

I think you can get Charon running on it

Inferno is better

>snarf
The only point of reference I have for this word is the thing from Thundercats and maybe eating food quickly. What is the origin of this choice?

"The operation is not to copy but to snarf. It's called snarf because
snarf is what it does."
marc.info/?l=9fans&m=147368333916337&w=2

Dammit rob.

it has mothra and another browser
mothra is enough to let me download lewd anime pictures, and that's all you really need in a web browser

sadly, I can't post to Sup Forums from it

you can learn most things UI-wise in no time flat, it's all fairly simple (well, "plumb" is basically context sensitive magic)
but it is almost entirely non-discoverable and you do need to read the docs

also acme sucks
sam sucks too (imagine re-creating vi but now making it mouse dependant), but acme and anything with the acme UI (one of the 9front web browsers does this) is actually just awful

Russ Cox demonstrating ACME and explaining plumb made me extremely angry because that's the only way it should have ever been on every OS. You define what strings are "hyper", and what they associate with, not the author or environment, not like HTML anchors or simple shortcuts with no context or arguments. It all feels so limiting in comparison to how the plumber works, I want everything to work that way.

Nothing.

No games.

>sadly, I can't post to Sup Forums from it
That's pretty much the only thing I need from a Browser.

Nothing. In fact, it runs on distributed systems in many research centers around the world.

vi sucks. imagine creating sam but with cursor emulation and only letting us to use keyboard

Because it's extremely latency-sensitive. You could call it a design error; truth is it was designed in different times, with different expectations.

>runs on distributed systems in many research centers around the world.
[citation needed]

useless

use /\v(Neo)?Vim then

>stacks of hacks

9p.io/wiki/plan9/Organizations_using_Plan_9_and_Inferno/index.html

8 years old list filled with discontinued organizations

Are there better alternatives?

I've found some this paper doing some benchmarks against NFS for big files and many small files, 9p had better throughput but used more synchronous operations thus blocks more on high-latency network. NFS has some pipelining of async writes.
usenix.org/legacy/events/usenix05/tech/freenix/full_papers/hensbergen/hensbergen.pdf
I quite wonder what Pike used for Upspin, looking at source code it uses Factotum and I suspect the underlying protocol(s) to be similar to 9p, but no mentions of it being directly 9p. It's literally made for remote file transfer, so it should be solving the latency slowdown.

sshfs maybe

no games

I use that when I am out of town to mount my entire media libraries (so I have something to do instead of just watch TV).
It's easy to set up and works well but it seems a little hitchy at times, it always recovers but when you're seeking on a video or something, the delay is noticeable. For editing source files and stuff though, it's totally fine.

With all that said I haven't found anything better yet, so it's best contender right now.

afaik it's possible to tweak TCP/IP stack to enable larger MTU and buffer sizes, use weaker cipher suite (that isn't obsolete yet) and enable zlib compression (although this shouldn't do much for media files) to speed sshfs by a lot, but haven't tested by myself

I perused the source for upspin. The protocol is decidedly dissimilar from 9P: for one, it's bolted on to HTTP, using endpoints for message differentiation. It also has no pretense of working like a Unix(-like) filesystem. Lastly, order is preserved, whereas 9P could be implemented asynchronously.

>bolted on to HTTP
These emotions.

Have you tried plex?

Here's the wire protocol: github.com/upspin/upspin/blob/master/rpc/doc.go
It'd also be interesting to implement it in languages other than Go, considering that multiple marshaling and formatting decisions were made by the Go stdlib and not by the protocol itself.

I haven't, I have this set up for other people I know
emby.media
but I haven't used it myself since I tend to just mount my entire home directory via sshfs which has more than just my multimedia library.

It's probably better for streaming media but I also want to use my own music and video player. I'm willing to accept the 1-2 seconds of initial buffering for that.

Then again maybe there's a way to hook things like cmus or mpv into it.

Go does javadoc-like document generation.
godoc.org/upspin.io/rpc

The plex client uses libmpv, so there's that, they have a well documented api, and I suspect there may even be a youtube-dl module for plex stuff.

Biggest advantage of plex is that when I'm at someone else's house, I can pull out my phone, click the chromecast icon, and watch something I have at my house on their TV

Not enough rice driver software

>when you turn your clock into a klock

...

Well its like calling copy paste gulp and barf, I never liked it but was to lazy to change the acme source.

I honestly see no change in philosophy, I mean that's what Plan9 is all about, distribution. And he's always been using commercial Unix systems.

Penguin is better than rabbit

POZZED

go back to Sup Forums fag

his philosophy has mostly stayed the same, but holy shit the soy meme is real

Name 9 things wrong with rob, you can't.

Cirno is better than penguim

1. terrifying head shape
2. thinks := the way it's in Go is good
stopped there, 9 is too much

Seems like not many people in this thread realize that Plan 9 is still alive and well and the best operating system.

Nowadays you can even use whatever modern web browser you want because Plan 9 can now host virtual machines thanks to the work of the 9front developers. Kinda slow but performance will probably be optimized over time,

I happen to have inside information that the legendary 9/g/rid is going to be making a comeback. You can expect an all-new, awesome implementation of a shared yet secure environment built from multiple independent 9p services to drop in a few weeks. It is being tested, refined, and security-hardened as we speak. It is designed such that resources are shared through 9p so clients can communicate and collaborate but nobody can run code on each other's machines or on the grid servers, so there is no vulnerability to meltdown/spectre type issues. I've been helping test the prototype and I think it will help deliver some of the long-delayed promise of Plan 9.

1. Google
2. his hair and face
3. thought acme was a good idea
4. propeller beanies
5. thought Glenda was a good idea
6. literal Google goggles
7. advocated FreeBSD and C++
8. thought sam was a good idea
9. Google

There was also a port of Vim 7 that should be possible to reintegrate with modern Vim 8.

>2.
I actually like it a lot.

Also yellow tinted glasses are pretty good.
Started using them also.

1. go
2. go
3. go
4. go
5. go
6. go
7. go
8. go
9. go

God I hope so

At least the penguim can get the fishe

Checkmate

She is the strongest, after all

Not enough Inferno

> He clicks on a compiler error and it jumps to that line in the source code.
> He clicks a phone number and his phone DIALS the number.

Some ideas are just too good for normal people.

> acme was a bad idea
wow, kid

GALO SENGEN

this