Do you Sup Forumsuys think the CS job market is becoming over-saturated...

Do you Sup Forumsuys think the CS job market is becoming over-saturated? I know the meme "shortage of good developers but too many crappy ones" but realistically I consider myself an average programmer and am starting to feel the heat so-to-speak.

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reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/7x3g0z/bouncing_back_from_cheating_on_my_cs_degree/
kovidgoyal.net/
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every industry is oversaturated

I’m in the same boat. I have good social skills and can actually speak and make eye contact. The upper management & marketing side love me and treats me very different from the punjabis.
Now I’m in my upper 30’s and managing a bunch of smelly poos just doesn’t appeal to me any more.
The pay is good but I am losing my technical passion.
I may want to jump into technical product management at a legit tech big-5.

its oversaturated at the entry level and by low wage 3rd worlders

the top of the field is ridiculously high demand

>its oversaturated at the entry level and by low wage 3rd worlders
>the top of the field is ridiculously high demand
So you're basically rephrasing what OP said, what about the mid-level software engineer. What happens to them?

Im going to become a bus driver with my dad and then jimmy my way into a cs job with the bus company since its easier to get the job that way

or you know, you could get a real engineering degree and not have to worm your way up from blue collar work

No, it's one of the few fields with more job openings than graduates.

I’m a big fan of CS GO, yes

i also like the Go programming language

Its just in case cs shit doesn't work out.
Bus driving is ezpz and you get mad benefits and cash for doing nothing. Plus I could just become a mechanic too

Any job that pays above average gets flooded with exponentially more job applications. Once you figure out how to rise above the noise you won't feel the squeeze so much.

Don't learn more technical skills. Focus on soft skills. Communication, negotiation even just being funny is going to take you further than learning some new programming language. If people trust you they will just let you learn that new skill on the job.

Isn't it happening everywhere with all this open borders shit?

>impoverished mexicans who probably don’t even know english or how to use the internet are jumping the border to become node.js developers

???

Jobs that aren't web dev or Java are in incredibly high demand. You can't just do a code camo and get a job anymore. The company I'm at laughs those applicants off.

There are smart Mexicans, you know.

>Do you Sup Forumsuys think the CS job market is becoming over-saturated?

Yes, because people are lazy for study real engineering and prefer copy-paste code of Stackoverflow. My friends work in a generic ~500 person office building in cubicles, they are in CS fields and programming because society push the "the Mr robot hacker" bullshit, when CS is the same thing that writing numbers in excel

I don’t doubt that but do you think mexicans with slick programming skills are so desperate to get here that they have to do it illegally?

I interviewed a candidate today. CS graduate. Could not do "count down from 700 to 200 in decrements of 13". Could not do "print the 12x12 table", either.

There are lot of people out there who call themselves programmers. Very very few of them can actually program. I do not know about the non-programming part of CS.

lmao what thats like 4 lines of code

This is from an old interview. Same first question.

>wanting to be the sad past of Mr. Anderson
the matrix has you, goy, you are a slave.

I fucking hate indians, dude.

crazy maybe i should just put my portfolio out there if it's that easy

They only ask those questions for entry-level positions, you'll most likely end up like this Sup Forumsuys but it's worth giving it a shot.

This is from today's interview (). Text in red pen is my own.

Is he lying about being a CS graduate?

>return i;

reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/7x3g0z/bouncing_back_from_cheating_on_my_cs_degree/

>all those people encouraging and even congratulating him

Redditors should be gassed.

DEY TUK OUR JEBS

I'm not surprised since I've seen many Indians surf that subreddit and various tech subs on reddit

...

DEY TOOK OUR SLAVERY.
good riddance.

that's a school lab dude
not people at their jobs

I don't get it. If so many people are "bad programmers" and cheat/bullshit their way through school, whats the solution if you're in school now? Learn as much as possible on your own? If these people are so bad how are they getting jobs? Is there an actual shortage or a surplus?

fuck off you filthy satanist

No, the ones who come to code go legally through relatives and fake political asylum.

>every industry is oversaturated
yes
>the top of the field is ridiculously high demand
which basically applies to every field

solution: don't choose something which looks nice from the outside, choose something in which you can be in the top 0.5-1%

I hate Pajeets with a passion. In down under they are everywhere, smelly, ugly, stupid poos

why should that stop you op

im pretty meh but can be a big white business boy if i need to and get along with other people. at the very least i can go back to the huge ass companies ive interned with for an alright 40$ an hour.

Teaching myself to java as we speak
just did all the free modules on codecademy. Should I pay for the pro version to do the rest?
or is there somewhere else just as good for learning the basics? I'm a visual learner and I prefer doing code than reading about it.

...

what bait? i'm geniunely asking

What are the first steps after codecademy? I'm just asking for resources for beginners. Interactive resources.

I my country we have a sayibg about the Indian:

>when you're walking in the forest, and you come across an Indian and a Cobra...
>you kill the Indian first

What country?

sure it wasnt a coding joke and you meant to say python ;)

>whats the solution if you're in school now?
Learn actual skills.

>If these people are so bad how are they getting jobs?
They are not.

>Is there an actual shortage or a surplus?
There is a huge, GIGANTIC shortage of programmers. Let me be clear: There is a big surplus of "people who call themselves programmer", but there is a shortage of "actual programmers".

It depends on what discipline you intend to go down. A CS degree might help for C#/C++ programmers but if you intend to develop frontend applications it's not needed.

I do frontend design + dev with a third in an arts degree, learn a few meme frameworks, whack them on your CV and start building a portfolio.

Start solving problems. That is the fastest way to learn.

>There is a huge, GIGANTIC shortage of programmers. Let me be clear: There is a big surplus of "people who call themselves programmer", but there is a shortage of "actual programmers".
Maybe where you live, but pretty much everyone I know can solve any of your interview challenges in 1-2 minutes. The competition is fierce.

Are they employed?

There is a "shortage" if you restrict yourself to pure tech companies, since they're the ones who set ridiculous standards on their applicants (e.g. must be willing to work 60+ hour work weeks including learning a ton of shit on your free time, needs 2-3 years of experience for entry level, 2-3 nontrivial personal projects that are widely used by real users, must know a laundry list of esoteric features).

What problems? I can't code. I'm brand new to this. I need beginners lessons. That's what I'm asking for.

interactive lessons online. Apart from codecademy where else is good for java?

>The competition is fierce.
Are you implying that's a bad thing, somehow?
That's a good thing for the economy. It drives the wages down and increases the profits, which in turn increases the capital investment.

Remember, only the bottom of the barrel coders are affected by this.

A good CS university program, if you need to be spoon-fed everything.

Of the 7 I know, only 3 of them are full time.

I also attended a company's information session where about 20 people took small quiz that was a little more challenging than your questions, but still easy enough. About 10-15 of them were good enough to have interviews on the spot. And this is for ONE full stack web position.

The two questions I posted earlier are from the "Ultra Easy Questions" list.

They are not meant to take more than 1-2 minutes each.

>Remember, only employees are affected by this.
FTFY

>Are you implying that's a bad thing, somehow?
Yes, that is bad, because good programmers are willing to throw their lives away to have the opportunity to be graced with shit wages, only to get burned out. No other field requires you to live and breathe their work outside of work the way tech does.

>That's a good thing for the economy. It drives the wages down and increases the profits, which in turn increases the capital investment.
Maybe for big companies, but startups and small companies that try to pull this shit almost always die fast.

>good programmers are willing to throw their lives away to have the opportunity to be graced with shit wages
Nope. Good programmers are always high in demand. You're a shit programmer if you can't get a job or get shit wages. Simple as that.

>startups and small companies that try to pull this shit almost always die fast
Not always the case. Obviously, startups cannot scale their workforce like big companies do. Startup employees need to do a broader range of work; large/midcap companies can scale their workforce to a larger extent. It's just how the industry works.

>large/midcap companies can scale their workforce to a larger extent.
True for assembly line workers. Not true for whiteish collar jobs (read programmers in a non tech company).
>It's just how the industry works.
Assertion without any proof.

>read programmers in a non tech company
>non tech company
What's the difference?

I know jack shit about programming (don't really hold my interest imo). I'm more into the pc hardware/software/low end networking support type. After working in non IT, now at 35, I may finally have landed the ideal IT job for me. I go on interview today (2 openings). It's help desk basically but it allows me to learn how "company b" operates, what there policy's are and I don't come off looking like a dumb ass if some situation high up the pole comes along and I have no clue how to fix it (such as AD totally going down). Not that I prob couldn't fix it, just I'd rather not be in the hot seat till I got to know how the place is ran first. Plus I'd keep my current benefits and whatnot cause I'd be transferring from one branch of the main "company" to another. Wish me luck!

What do you think? Does your company produce/work with tech, or not?

Google, Microsoft, Red Hat, SAP, Facebook are all exclusively tech companies as their products are exclusively software.
GM, Ford, BoA, John Deere, Exxon, GE are not tech companies but they all have a small in house dev team, So to scale a small workforce you would need to entirely wipe out an entire department and that's not good for business.

name one company that doesn't work with tech

there are scores of programmers great on paper that can't do simple string reversal during tech interview.

pic related is the founder of Calibre (ebook management software). Why you keep making fun of pajeets Sup Forums?

kovidgoyal.net/

>boo hoo go work at mcdonalds
sure saying that feeds the ego, but don't be surprised when every dick and jane that wants a living wage swarms your field so they don't get outsourced by AI or whatever

theres like 10 billion indians some of them are alright but 99.99% of them are useless

Calibre is the shit man. Allows me to convert all my pirated e-books to whatever format i need.

They had trouble doing pic related?

Just dont forget that these punjabis, poo in da loos or thngs like that, acomplished more in life than you and your whole family.
They were born in a 3rd world country with shitty wages and made it to US to make way more than the average AMERICAN

Meanwhile you were born and educated in US and is still unsatisfied with your job. Youre a failure, not them.

GM
Ford
Exxon
Shell
BP
Gazprom
* Airlines
VW
Boeing
Airbus
And others, they use tech to remain competitive but their *final* product isn't tech (software).

>they use tech
>they don't work with tech
amazing

>Not true for whiteish collar jobs (read programmers in a non tech company).
First of all, being a coder is a blue-collar job. And a white-collar programmer is always high in demand in a tech or non-tech company.

>So to scale a small workforce you would need to entirely wipe out an entire department and that's not good for business.
What do you mean by this?
You can scale a small workforce to a large workforce by adding low-skilled jobs for redundant and repetitive tasks. That's how startups go from being smallcap to largecap. It just doesn't work like this for the programming department in a non-tech company because they don't need it.

>Entire thread is about Computer Science
>The entire discussion is about software development
>Explicitly points out "tech" in context of software
My bad user, I often forget how hard context is.

this tbqh

Yes, yes it is.
>too many normie “””””””techies””””””” trying to be cool
>everything getting outsourced to pajeetland
>SJW shit giving women an unfair edge

I remember when any old idiot couldn’t access a computer. It kept the normies out but then they got clever.

This, the world is becoming oversaturated.
Everyone and their mothers moving to USA and Europe isn't helping either.
I give it 20 years until most of the western world becomes like China and India, noisy, filthy and drowning in people.

>I cannot code better than a Pajeet but gib me a job... waa~
Do you, by any chance, know why companies hire Pajeets and Chinks? (hint: investopedia.com/terms/p/profit.asp)

>This, the world is becoming oversaturated.
Welp, about time you offed yourself.

its their own fault they were born in a fucking shithole lmao

>This, the world is becoming oversaturated.
Musk had better get that Mars colonization program working asap.

that second one definitely does not print a 12 by 12 multiplication table.

Yea my bad, something like this was asked?

this is simply unacceptable. i could pick up iterative programming within a week. i'm struggling with oop for some reason, though.

I hope this isn't what I'm like in a year

yeah that actually seems like a slightly harder one, the formatting would be hard to get right if you couldn't run it and see what the output looks like.

I guess you could escape the fancier formatting duties during an interview like this when you can't really test and see the output by tabulating everything like a true gangster instead

>the CS job market is becoming over-saturated?
Software is commoditized as fuck. I tell you guys, where I live there is also immigration but no one of them have programming skills. And CS schools are actually half empty compared to just 10 years ago. Yet employers keep spamming bullshit job offers paying even less than back then.
There are only shitty jobs. No one does requirement analysis. No one does proper testing. Little to no architecture. No config management. Nothing is done professionally.

The age of sane software development is over.

I give up in trying to find that black swan of a company in my area. I know there are some 5 stars restaurants in the country but 99% of the offers here are for McDonalds. I want to work seriously and rationally. I didn't study a degree for this. I see no other way out other than finding a different job not related to programming.

I guess it depends on where you live and how is the market. I live in a none english speaking country where the demand is CRAZY for programmers, aided by the fact you can't outsource to pajeets who don't even speak your language. we also have 4 decent universities that have CS programs and that's it, and they limit their class size and weed out retards, so there is a set amount of people graduating which isn't large at all. companies usually scout people from the top 4 unis and throw into the trash any resume from a guy who graduated from any other institute, unless he can provide a sizable portfolio and proves himself during the interview
wages are great but nowhere near sillicon valley though

Nah. It looks like the because lots of normies can do their basic hello world in whatever language they choose but only 10% of them know a framework or can actually offer more than an automated thing like Squarespace will offer. Probably less than 10% though realistically.

It's like people watch the big bang theory and spend a week on free code camp and they figure out the basics but very few people will follow through, happens with everything in life.

hmmmm where user?

israel

If you think you can do so much better start your own company then you faggot

It is heavily taxed here. Almost punished I'd say.

But I don't aim for excellence, I just want out of cheap hacks everyday. I'm tired of open spaces, changing requirements, willy-nilly change requests, impossible estimations, micromanagement and shitty coworkers. Fuck this all.

Israel's tech scene is underrated, didn't Waze originate from Israel? Also many companies have a respectable satellite branch in your country.

basically everyone has a branch here yeah, makes the demand for engineers/programmers basically elastic - get strong professionals for half or less of the price of a silicon valley engineer. pretty unique situation in regards to the world, you need to be literally retarded to not get a high paying job out of uni if you did CS.
creates an imbalance in terms of every other profession though - anything in tech pays really well and anything that isn't is fucking shit, paying literally 3-4 times less.