Why does EVERY fucking distro use SystemD now? The only remotely "major" distro that doesn't use it is Slackware. Even then, it's developed by a number of people you can count on one hand, and with how quickly Volkerding was to adopt PulseAudio over a stupid nonissue with Bluetooth doesn't ease my mind. Why is it that the only way o avoid SystemD is to use an autistic distro like Gentoo or Void? I don't want to embrace SystemD as inevitable. What the fuck does a guy have to do to get a "normal" Linux distro with a secure SystemD free future?
System D hate thread
Elijah Jackson
Other urls found in this thread:
distrowatch.com
youtube.com
serverfault.com
phoronix.com
suckless.org
web.archive.org
without-systemd.org
twitter.com
Easton Hill
Because systemd is actually better.
First of all, it boots services in parallel.
Second, Unix processes are totally independent of each other and it's hard to keep the system in a coherent state without cgroups and something to manage them. Idk if you've written an init script before but it's full of subtle traps.
Moving certain things, like cron's functionality, into PID 1 means it's impossible for the OS to be in a state where periodic tasks aren't executing.
Jaxon Fisher
>Why does EVERY fucking distro use SystemD now?
Because gnome
Oliver Anderson
>Moving certain things, like cron's functionality, into PID 1 means it's impossible for the OS to be in a state where periodic tasks aren't executing.
Translation: UNIX is hard; let's use a single point of failure instead!
Jeremiah Jenkins
You have no idea what you're talking about.
Eli Jenkins
You won't be missed, oldfaggot
Julian White
Install antiX (Debian-based), PCLinuxOS (originally forked from Mandriva), or Artix (Arch-based).
>Why is it that the only way o avoid SystemD is to use an autistic distro like Gentoo or Void?
I haven't tried Void, but Gentoo is fine - getting used to compiling from source doesn't take that long. Unless, maybe, your strongest machine is an anemic craptop with performance similar to the mighty Raspberry PI.
By the way, Distrowatch's search has a 'not systemd' search option in the 'Init Software' field.
distrowatch.com
Ryan Lopez
this
The independence is key. At work I maintain a debian fork that we distribute to something on the order of 10k internally. Compared to sysv init or even upstart systemd is a godsend. It's just so much easier to put packages together in a way where they work nicely with each other.
Lucas King
Why OpenSUSE uses it then, when KDE is their main DE?
Hunter Reyes
Camden Lopez
>Because systemd is actually better.
No, it isn't. It uses too much RAM.
>First of all, it boots services in parallel.
OpenRC can do it as well.
Gavin Edwards
> No, it isn't. It uses too much RAM
Do you have some metrics on that? Even if it's the case I'm happy to use more RAM if I can use the configuration interface systemd exposes. It's just way more batteries included when compared to sys5 init, with the happy path almost always being exactly what I want to be doing anyway.
Josiah Thomas
Fucking SystemD bricked BIOS on a laptop of mine. Since now I don't trust this shit. It is fucking flaw.
Blake Diaz
Andrew Martinez
>random video on youtube
okay dude. how about some ACTUAL testing by trusted people? systemd has been out for years, if it used too much RAM we would have heard about it from trusted sources by now
Lincoln Collins
I mean, I saw the part where systemd started up and shut down way faster, but where was the part I missed about RAM usage?
Jaxson Perry
By the way, wrong vid. Sorry, searching for other now. But it was there as webm I think.
Michael Gonzalez
By the way, with init script on LFS I've managed to get 33 mb of RAM.
Noah Nelson
SystemD fucked my mom and kicked me out of the house!
Charles Gonzalez
The OP from killed a legit thread about distros without systemD. All because he is an archfag and systemD lover.
Anthony Brooks
>init script is full of subtle traps
(O)\/\/(O)?
Jason Nguyen
Military intelligence tentacles
Same strategy as politics (politricks) / law (more like lawl)
Create projects, sneakily indoctrinate general population with very minimal notification, make backdoor deals for greater adoption (with us or against us bullshit aka you have no choice), users complain, shill marketing (its so much better for x, y, z reasons!), create and maintain end-user confusion/hysteria/smoke screen, etc., etc.
So they have hardware backdoors built into most machinery, bad software on top of that, and always continuing to corrupt whatever remaining good software ideaology.
Create the problem. Control the reaction. Offer the solution.
Wake up, Neo!
Knock, knock...
Jackson Smith
> Huge amount of security holes
> Feature creep
> Hogging more and more points of failure
> Low code quality
> Spreading into other projects like cancer without any reason other than to make it harder for alternatives to exist
All that for 1.5-2 seconds faster boot time, and nothing else....
And shutdown is still even longer with systemd than with other systems.
David Foster
i'm not fond of systemd and fuck real shills but
>shill marketing (its so much better for x, y, z reasons!)
liking things for reasons is being a shill now?
Logan Anderson
...
Christian Russell
>Choose portability over efficiency
What a fucking cuck.
Nathaniel Garcia
Arch users = faggots (arch off support systemd)
John Gomez
systemd isn't even faster anymore.
Anthony Morgan
>Less go super fast as we drive off this cliff!
I wish some of you fucks would take this advice more literally...
Chase Reed
Tell me more about these security holes.
Jeremiah Cook
...
re-read what you responded to?
Charles Allen
>it boots services in parallel
i re/boot maybe once a week and it takes about 40 seconds with the slackware huge kernel and no optimizations. if you're rebooting frequently you have serious stability issues to worry about first.
>Idk if you've written an init script before
since 1996
>but it's full of subtle traps
no, it's not. there are traps but they are anything but subtle. init scripts also have the advantage of residing in one or possibly two locations depending on your distro. systemd rubs it's dirty foreskin all over your system from /etc to /lib to /usr/share. it's a pagan orgy of symlinks and partial redundancy in honor of the chaos gods.
>it's impossible for the OS to be in a state where periodic tasks aren't executing
unless of course a cron job is throwing an error that systemd's schizophrenic journal is parsing out for unknown and undocumented reasons.
systemd is little more than an ad hoc reimplementation of windows regedit grafted painfully onto sysvinit, crippling both in the process. then they removed plain text logs to cover up all the bugs. it's trash, stop deluding yourself into thinking it's good just because you're forced to use it at work.
Asher Collins
>since 1996
Then fucking release it already
Michael Lewis
hahah
Wyatt Murphy
^^
Isaac Ramirez
Ian Murdock Was killed for this.
Owen Rodriguez
this shit is not worth your time.
systemD will fall eventually, i hope it drowns faster then Adobe Flash..
Dominic Sanchez
Did this with my dick once, wasn't much fun.
Chase Bailey
uwu what is this
Charles Bennett
stupid normie meme
Dominic Ortiz
like, omg! captain america and iron man's feud is totally epic! like if you agree!
Ryan King
Non-gentoo users problems
Brandon Lopez
could use a different operating system, like a bsd
Tyler Howard
GNU/Linux is finally usable as a replacement for Windows. I'm not going to go back 10 years to when I first started using Ubuntu, because that's where BSD is about now, although a bit worse in some areas.
Nathan White
>GNU/Linux is finally usable as a replacement for Windows
lol
Noah Martinez
Yes it sure as hell fucking is. I use it every goddamned day and I can even play my shitty games on it now. I can do graphics work in GIMP and I can draft my documents in LaTeX and do 10,000x better a job than all of my peers (and that shit impresses people.) What the fuck do you even need Wangblows for at this point other than maybe video editing (which admittedly is still shit on GNU, Blender VSE fags can get the fuck out.) Most people just use computers for Facebook and porn anyway. GNU/Linux works better out of the box thatn Windows every single time at this point, and it's nowhere near as bad as it was when is tarted using it when you would unplug your headphones and your fucking sound server would break.
All of this on a 10 year old laptop on a mechanical drive. If I tried to run Windows on a supercomputer without an SSD it would die in a horrible fire even on a fresh install, and get worse overtime due to OS degradation!
Owen Walker
There's a LOT of reasons why people don't like it, and I think the people who don't like it all likely have their own reasons for not liking it.
Here's a posting about someone discovering a massive memory leak that used up 4GB of ram. While I have yet to see something this massive, I have definitely noticed Systemd using more memory than the alternatives, and some leakage here and there as well.
serverfault.com
Some see it as an unnecessary security risk due to its massive attack surface. It recently hit 1 million lines of code.
phoronix.com
Some don't like it because they dislike its habit of scope creep. The project ends up assimilating things that historically should not have anything to do with init. gif related.
suckless.org
There's also some other design decisions that people have an issue with, such as using Google DNS by default (because of course systemd can handle DNS), using binary logs, etc.
Lastly there's the conspiracy theory side of it, which alleges that systemd is an NSA attempt to compromise GNU/Linux, and due to Systemd as a project moving way too fast, it can't be properly audited.
web.archive.org
For more links and arguments, see:
without-systemd.org
John Cruz
Disk trays can be quite sharp you know
Michael Brooks
/thread
>fpbp
Jackson Torres
I definitely consider Gentoo to be more popular / normal than Slackware these days.
Austin Ross
Gentoo is not something you can just install. You have to go through the process every time and it's fucking stupid that there's no installer for people that just want to use the OS as a day to day system. I'm about to build a new PC and I don't wanna go through that process again (I've installed Gentoo a few times on my old laptop.) I have no need for an artistically optimized system. The fact Gentoo is one of the only options now for a SystemD-less system is ludicrous. Slackware is the only remaining remotely major "normal" Linux distro. I don't care for the rolling release or the minimalism meme, but I'm thinking about Void because I had good luck when I tinkered with it. I'm kind of concerned about stability though because I'm the kind of person that just wants to use my OS for years without touching it.
Christopher White
A new thread without systemD fuckery is up
Caleb Ward
>worried about autism
>doesn't want systemd
I've got some bad news for you user...
Levi Ward
Gentoo, Slackware, and to a lesser extent Arch exist strictly for the e-peenor and percieved internet points.
Joseph Lewis
I've never used Arch, but if you're the OP you should probably add Parabola to that list. They have an OpenRC version now because the developers themselves use it. it's also libre if that's your thing.
Not wanting System D isn't autism, System D is fucking shit and noone in their right god damned mind should want that shit.
I've been using Slackware for the past 5 years because it literally just werks and it's been hard for me to switch to anything else because it's just so god damned stable. I used Debian for a long time before and it can't even compare.
John Richardson
Can't you just write down all your install commands for gentoo and get through most of it with a script in the future? maybe put in stops for stuff like partitioning where you may want to do it manually to be safe.
Void is pretty much rock-solid stable. I used it for a year or so. Only left it to aim for 100% free distros like guixsd and parabola.
Wyatt Miller
>Only left it to aim for 100% free distros like guixsd and parabola.
I play video games and I'm not sorry, but GuixSD looks wicked fucking cool. Tell me about your experience if you don't mind.
Adrian Clark
It's been a bit rough because I rarely feel like reading documentation, and it's way more necessary than other distros. I haven't even got some basics like ssh and mpd working yet. Updates take a long time since it's compiling everything (I list all my packages in my config.scm file, I think if you do imperative package management it doesn't compile stuff), and the only firefox in the repos is icecat, which sucks. It's based on firefox 52 and is just generally somewhat broken. I'd probably have better things to say if I were a bit more skilled. Definitely not a beginner distro. If you've ever used NixOS, it's extremely similar, since it's basically a clone. A friend of mine who is really into NixOS think that GuixSD is worse in a lot of ways, so if you don't care about the differences, maybe try NixOS. Just keep in mind that NixOS uses systemd.
Thomas Foster
Because it's better, you pea brained mongoloid.
Carter Evans
Better than what? sysv? What are your thoughts on openrc and runit?
Jace Williams
SystemD is like sunny delight but bad tasting and being forced on you to the point where you turn on the tap sunny delight comes out, and when it rains it's sunny delight, and almost no pure water is available anywhere
Angel Richardson
>i re/boot maybe once a week
I really don't care how often anyone reboots, if a task can take 5 seconds instead of 40, there is no reason to do it slowly.
If I were to reboot my server, I don't want it to take several minutes before I can connect to it again if I can do it faster.
Init scripts are easier to write with systemd.
At least for me.
Maybe I am too young, but systemd made a lot of things easier for me.
A huge thing for me personally was I was finally able to debug my boot time.
As for the location of files, I don't find it confusing, just read the fine manual.
I fail to see how systemd is anything like the windows registry.
As for the metadata in the logs, who cares? You can still read them with less if you want to.
You just have more stuff you can do with logs now, how is this a bad thing?
Gabriel Wilson
my sides
Camden Robinson
GuixSD
Ethan White
I don't like it because logind is a buggy piece of shit.