Just a little details. Graduated from college. Worked for one company for three years. Then went to work for another one another three years. Have a good set of skills beneath my belt. But ever since I went out to seek a new job, I've been getting nothing but rejection letters. Went to a couple of interviews, but didn't get anything from them either. My resume is organized, I dress well, work out. I don't know why I'm not wanted.
What does HR want from me? Or is it better if I just start networking to get into a job in programming now? It use to be so easy.
I did that in college. It's the most annoying thing in the world. You have to build contacts by doing shitty jobs for a while, and often dont even get paid well or get organized jobs. It was a pain and the corporate world is just ten times better. It also wasnt paying well off the bat, so I had to work another job and do school. Shit sucked.
Andrew Diaz
After 6 years of experience, you should be networking with your ex-coworkers to find your next job. You did make friends at work, right?
>people told me networking was important for my future career >thought they meant computer networking and got a certificate instead of investing in social networking
Get anything remotely related while you continue looking. Botching interviews is a lot less painful when you can go to work and study what you fucked up while on the clock.
Christian Perez
Start your own company and fuck over the people that are fucking you over.
David Hall
Remotely related havent gotten back to me. Out of about 30 or 40 applications, 12 were either questions or rejections.
Parker King
post resume
my company is hiring a ton of software people rn, and we aren't a tech company
Dylan Morgan
You've probably already identified some possible causes, but unduly dismissed them. Think hard about what negative impressions might interviewers be getting from you, however invalid of misconstrued (in your opinion) they are.
Mason Cox
I can do an interview like it's nothing. But most rjeections from them jjust looking at my resume and going nah
Ayden Howard
Every job is like that:
Self employed: - do shitty things to build up a network - do non-shitty things
Not self employed: - do shitty things as intern or junior - do non-shitty things as regular/senior employee
Ian Gonzalez
Lets see your CV. Redact your name/details etc if you wish.
I applied for a few comp dev jobs few years ago, got the first one I applied for.
Now I'm moving on years later, for bigger salary/lower level work (c, driver dev etc). Again got the first interview. I applied to them because I saw them at a conference 2 years ago and they did interesting stuff.
Either your CV is garbage, which mine is pretty bad too (because I cba), but it's good enough clearly that HR considers it everytime, but I'm not a retarded NEET and can talk to people well, and act like I know what I'm on about and not chat shit in interviews, especially if someone tries to prober my knowledge deeper, I'm golden.
Connor Smith
>portugal >graduate college >1 year before graduating, had more than 10 proposals from several companies cuz the market it's desperate for IT professionals >mfw been working for a year and getting work proposals every 2 days
I think because I only have 2 jobs after college, in the software industry, thats bad actually. On programmer resumes, having a long list is standard for our industry, so I believe my one fault was sticking to one company for too long cause thats what I learned in college.
Jason Howard
Are you white?
Henry Lee
hispanic
Andrew Green
Do you look white?
Juan Gomez
I look black cause of my dad. My mother is hispanic, who looks white.
Nicholas Rogers
I was the same.
Uni>Masters>First job (held for 3 years, until now)
2 months ago I wanted to move (applied for a better job), got it.
I am a Windows software dev, C, C#, python, some x86/x64.
Chase Reyes
How did you get that gig? I've been looking for a C - C# job for a while.
Mason Lewis
Can this be a resume rate thread now?
Hudson Flores
I see. I was going to recommend applying at a defense contractor. My departments as a Software Engineer at a defense contractor were 90% white. I don't think they do it on purpose. Might want to try anyway.
Jace Butler
I usually think race doesnt matter in our field. Maybe a little bit, but the fact I got jobs anyway shows that there's people that only care if you get the job done. Also, a lot of my rejections were mostly before they could get an interview with me, so they did it just off my skills vs whoever else applied. Being in the US, I would think this would be simple. Maybe I should tap one of my colleagues.
Charles Cooper
Portufag here. I can confirm this. I'm harassed everyday on LinkedIn with proposals.
Mason Phillips
No one actually believes this works right. No one is that stupid...
Brandon King
No one cares about that. 2 jobs in 6 years is very standard for tech work.
Owen Walker
I didn't know C# at all coming in. I learnt on the job, better people code reviewed my stuff, tore it to shit, I followed there advice, now I'm a good OOP dev. I couldn't be arsed to learn C# in my own time, I dislike it, but I learnt it from others when they code review my stuff, yeah it looks like shit because I have 99+ code review comments haha, but it improves you when they finally accept your PR.
C I was proficent in from the get go. From general C projects at home, to playing with Arduino's, etc.
Ironically even though I dislike C# .NET, I can code in it well. I design my stuff I'm allocated from tickets in proper OOP way, throw exceptions via good design, catch in correct places, create custom objects when needed, etc etc.
But I like good ole low level C, which is why I moved job, now that I have BS HR skills behind me, from working in teams, to leading new entrants, knowledge sharing, how I overcome hard problems (those BS HR questions, I can whizz through, as I've just had experience with it).
Eli Gray
Yeah but they will usually choose the one with more of them because that shows more experience to the employer.
Elijah Butler
Please post your resume.
Connor Rivera
Wrong quote
Angel Davis
My company is searching for 50 professionals and we are only 400. And like us, there are dozens and dozens more searching for people
Asher Barnes
More jobs is not at all seen as "more experience" by employers. If anything it's seen as a detriment because it means you might not even be around for training.
All but those shitty bullpen jobs right out of Uni will take close to 6 months to even turn you into a real contributing employee, if you leave 18 months after that they wasted money on you.
There's a reason most places don't let your stock fully vest until 3~4 years in.
Jeremiah Scott
>good set of skills specifically, what? around here, if you can scribble "i know javascript" on a napkin with a crayon, you can send it to a recruiter and land a $70k job.
Connor Hill
>C++, C# > Linux administration >Web Development (SQL, HTML, CSS, Javascript) >Git version control >Visual Studio >Group manager >Self Management
>1 C# job making applications >1 Web Development job managing ecommerce site for company >bachelor's computer science
Dominic Reyes
Interested in bringing in a Canadian? I could go for that EU passport
Jacob Barnes
Thats funny. I knew C and C# before I even entered college. There's obscure shit I still dont know in the language, but thats cause I never used it.
Joseph Reed
Nah, give us the link. I want to see the design and all of your skills
Joshua Green
either you're larping or are just a terrible interviewer... those skills should be enough to land a job in any market.
Blake Wright
The design I used is what my colleague gave and used. It's formatted well and everything. Those are all my skills listed.
I only had two interviews so far. The rest have either not gotten back to me or they sent rejection emails. Recruiters aren't helping me much, either. I don't know what the fuck is going on.
Ayden Rivera
Just the skill list is basically any uni grad. You're probably being rejected on your interviewing ability or there's something weird about the 2 jobs.
Why did you leave them? Did you quit them both? It's possible that companies are put off by the fact that you quite a job without already having one lined up, or they're worried about the timeframe you spent (quit too early). We can't tell without the resume.
Isaiah Allen
Left the first one cause of moving to the city for more opportunities. The second because I wanted to get more professional experience with a different language.
Josiah Allen
That's all on your resume? I now see the problem. You basically know no programming languages. Visual Studio is not a skill. Group manager and self management should not be listed on your resume. Linux administration is not a thing. One C# Job making applications is pretty weak. 1 web development job managing ecommerce site; does this mean QA? Does this just mean maintenance? Did you actually build anything? Was it purely web dev?
As a sophomore in my undergrad, my resume was probably 5x more impressive than yours. I'm a junior now and mine is probably close to 10x better than yours.
The web dev, c++, and c# are nice. Git is nice to have on there. Learn some devops tools (terraform, vagrant, whatever else). Do side projects. Volunteer.
Asher Moore
So as I've been at my job for 3 years, I sometimes get asked to be the tech interviewer alongside the HR guy.
So many abs trash people applying, if your in that tier, there's too many. They lie about there knowledge, I probe them, I can instantly tell when they lie, but I'm an arse, and probe deeper to tangle them in there own lies .. makes for a good laugh when I get back to the team xD However an average dev, with some PROOF, I will tell when you lying, is usually enough.
Maybe the jobs you applied for had very strict requirements, and were looking for someone specific, hence if you don't meet those needs, they won't hire you, cuz they weren't looking for those skills.
Justin Adams
I did go to one interview where the programming team practically quizzed me. I was able to answer a lot of them, but there were about three I got caught up on mostly cause I never even cared for that stuff (academic terms like DML, specific syntax verbs I never used). I figured my personality and being professional would make up for that. I mean they said I did well, and the recruiter said the same thing from what she received, but I didnt pick cause they said they had someone stronger. I wasn't strong enough.
Oh, are you now applying to jobs that don't do C++? That's definitely going to be a red flag, because C++ is the only thing on your resume (C# doesn't really count).
If you're trying to get a job in a new language you have to prove at least some competency in more than one language. Most people getting hired out of uni are going to know C++, Java, Python, JS, and probably some Bash or Assembly. If all you have on your resume is C++ but you're looking for a job that doesn't have it... you'll have a bad time.
Note that the language you WANT to use in a job doesn't have to be one already on your resume, but having multiple languages on the resume proves that you can learn quickly. Just having one says "I can't branch out"
He's not quite wrong, he's just overconfident and talking about things he doesn't have experience with. I too think only having C++ and C# on there is screwing over OP
Luis Turner
I DO want C++.
Juan Bennett
I'm just saying. From his/your resume, there is almost no exposure to side projects or neat skills they acquired. I can tell when people aren't passionate about their major or their work. It shows through their resume. Unless this guy was working on 1 massive ass project or startup during his entire college career, he did jack shit and probably just played videogames or partied. That's the reason why he is having a difficult time. You need to have breadth, and you need to have depth in one area. He basically has neither.
Ryder Davis
IT companies here have no problem hiring foreigners, in fact we welcome them.
Logan Gomez
Okay, then it may not be the languages. I would still put anything else you know on the resume. Do you only know C++ and C#?
Noah Long
I have Python, Perl, and Javascript on there, too. What I did not have was Bash wtf. Lemme go add that shit.
Grayson Lee
Dude, you should actually stop talking if you don't have industry experience.
Short of trying to get a job at a Big-N company right out of uni, no one gives a shit about side projects. Like seriously, no one is going to even check them, unless you have something crazy impressive like >100 star Github repos.
Robert Stewart
I know all what I listed here including Bash and Python
You're assuming a lot, but I dont have strong jobs I was able to participate in, so you're right in that area. I love this business. No sane person would do what we do.
Jonathan Collins
>He's not quite wrong, he's just overconfident So, just the definition of the Dunning-Kruger effect?
Leo Barnes
lol, the guy who fucking wrote Homebrew was denied a job at Google because he couldn't balance a binary tree in their white-boarding interview. Your "side project" could be used by like 70% of developers at the company you're applying for and they still won't care.
No, the definition would be very wrong and overconfident. Although I don't have any defense for user who is putting his foot in his mouth over and over again.
Evan Ward
>be me >studied biology in school >graduate, no biology jobs >spend a few years working as a waiter and partying all the time >learn some php from codecademy in my free time >land shitty job at shitty company >spend a few years there, get some decent experience building / managing web apps >now have $90k development job writing php and python all day am i just insanely lucky or are most people just retarded?
Wyatt King
I can do php and python with my eyes closed. I'm just having trouble getting my foot in the door. But maybe I'm not as great as I thought I was, shit. I should be getting a job easily, but maybe there's more competition than I thought.
Easton Brown
Which is more likely, that you got lucky, or that you're a secret genius and the rest of the world just can't catch up to you?
Also if that job is anywhere near SV 90k is nothing.
Liam Kelly
honestly, if you just spray your resume around they'll start coming to you. recruiters will literally contact anyone whose resume has the right buzzwords... they don't care if you can even code - that's for the phone interviewer to figure out.
>if that job is anywhere near SV 90k is nothing yeah, i'm aware. i'm in the midwest though, and it's enough to buy a pretty nice house and car.
Jackson Stewart
midwest here, too. 90K is basically rich
Xavier Torres
Maybe you're just being too picky. Do you see these guys making $150k out of college in SF and think "well i should be making that much even though i live in akron ohio"
John Jones
>>C++, C# ok >> Linux administration do you experience with any config management (puppet, ansible, chef, etc)? linux admin experience doesn't really tell much, need more details >>Web Development (SQL, HTML, CSS, Javascript) pretty generic, any JS frameworks? specifics matter; how experienced with SQL? enough that you can optimize queries or just enough to do basic shit? >>Git version control ok >>Visual Studio this isn't really a skill, learning an editor/IDE isn't anything major >>Group manager i.e. tech lead? ok >>Self Management so indepdent? you shouldn't have to mention this
C# job making applications ok Web Development job managing ecommerce site for company what does this involve >>bachelor's computer science
Kayden Watson
Dude, I am interviewing interns/engineers right now. Unless you have absolutely stellar projects, and even, it's rare I'll actually go look at those projects on your github. I'm more interested in what experience you have and how willing/quick you are to learn. Experience will trump your side projects every time.
Bentley Martinez
Do side projects not count as useful experience? Genuine passion to learn new technologies and concepts and put them into practice?
Levi Martin
this. side projects are a meme. nobody in the industry actually gives a shit unless you're getting pull requests accepted by projects that the company actually uses.
Ethan Price
They're fine in addition to previous work experience if that's mostly what you have, but I wouldn't consider it on its own as a substitute. It would only be equivalent if you were applying for intern/junior position and that's all you had. If you were applying for mid or above then that project better be pretty big.
Juan Sanchez
Yes ofc. I as an interviewer, will never check your proof, because I'm not wasting anymore time on this interview apart from the 1hr allocated. I will ask questions, and determine you right there. I will judge how competent you are at learning, what you do in your spare time (and probe to check if your lying), probe your depth (from networking like how does dns work, how do browsers work, how does ssl work, do you understand cryptography pub/priv keys, programming languages known and proejcts you've worked on) someone genuinely interested and capable, easily stands out, even if they haven't done loads of projects. My role is more networking focused, but it's the same concept for other roles too. However if someone else is better than you straight out of Uni, you're done, however most are average shmucks, so don't be an average shmuck.
Andrew Roberts
Of course. That's what I meant. I don't expect to get a job with purely side projects on my resume. However, they definitely help and enhance a lacking/average work experience because it shows you're capable/interested in learning new things on the side.
Ryan Young
I always thought side projects was a meme. No interviewer would have the time to check that out.
Adrian Wood
Following a github link and taking a cursory glance over the projects doesn't take that long
Eli Perez
it is if its printed out on paper and given to someone
Anthony Anderson
I mean not really, as long as you don't have an annoyingly complicated username. But sure. In any case, just having a github account on your resume counts for something I'd wager
Blake Gomez
This thread doesn't give me hope for breaking into the industry minus a degree.
Anthony Ortiz
>look black
Your perma-fucked no matter how good you are. and if you do get hired you will earn a fraction of everyone else.
No lie. i work with a healthy mix of backgrounds at my job we all do the same thing and all have roughly the same experience and background.
The two white guys make about 120-145k The three black guys make 35-40k The arab female makes about 85k
we just brought in this fresh out of college white kid with no unix experience, no system admin experience, but has a splunk user cert... 80k.
We all do enterprise systems monitoring (splunk, solarwinds, HP products, etc)
But you know, pay discrimination because "murica is great"
I've only gotten lucky because my name doesn't sound black.
You'd be surprised how many give me that whole "holy shit i didnt know he was black" look when i do the in person interview. By then i've impressed them enough for them to offer me a job.
If your skin isn't white, get a fucking name change at a minimum.
The only state where you have a shot is california, but you still have to be pretty stand out.
Nicholas Harris
Sounds too generalizing.
Thomas Howard
it's literally the opposite in major tech centers, like SF. Maybe it's like that in Alabama or South Carolina.
Andrew Jones
thats why i said california is his best bet, outside of california you're fucked if you're not white.
Jace Peterson
>racism nor the effects of racism has never ever been a thing in our country.
Yeah, okay
Carter Phillips
Well it was good talking about this. It seems I need to do something to make myself more marketable or talk around with a few people.
