While I'm not a punk fan myself, I do enjoy a lot of music that is derived or influenced by punk, and I suppose even the music I make is influenced by them as well.
Since I do have a somewhat growing interest in punk due to its influence, I have to admit to noticing a trend regarding punks and many of those who are descendants of the genre: not only do they embrace leftist politics, they also embrace leftist authoritarian politics.
Before I go on, I should probably say that I'm not altogether that engaged in politics, and I am probably slightly more left than right (at least when you think about it in American terms, but I'm only a permanent resident in the US, not a citizen), and pretty libertarian, I suppose. I don't necessarily hate all leftist values, but personally, I can't quite get into the way they seem to want to force it upon others as a moral prerogative.
Here's the thing: wasn't punk supposedly against "the man"? "The man", "the establishment", etc. is presumably rightist, but also authoritarian—both values that punk should be against…right? Not to say that I want or expect punk to be my political ally (in fact, I really don't expect that at all), but it seems to be kind of at odds where on one hand, they decry the establishment for its authoritarianism, yet the minute they can get to the same position, they embrace authoritarianism as much as their previous (so-called) oppressors.
But surely, there must be more to punk and its politics than this. I'm not a punk myself nor an expert on the subject, so I would like to hear those more knowledgeable/more punk-oriented to actually speak on the topic, as it does influence the music itself, as well as the community the genre is built around. I figure it's important to understand the historicity of punk than just the musical aspects (or I might snidely add, albums like Never Mind the Bollocks would be mighty boring…but that's a different discussion).
That's why punk is so ironic now. My dad was in England during the punk revolution and all the crazy hair shit and piercings started coming along. He said they were really anti government, particularly Thatcher. They really are just libertarians. Many of the punk rockers would despise modern day left government, due to "Political correctness", and how heavily it is enforced.
Josiah Rivera
Around when would you say punk moved from libertarian left to authoritarian left? And which bands/albums would you look at to track that change in the music?
Logan Collins
>muh punk
Bentley Ward
Punk from the get go was all over the place politically
proto punk commies like Henry Cow and Art Bears existed as 70s punk became weird vague "i dont like the man" shit for teenagers
Not long after a strong social juatice dosage hit punk which geoups from Crass to Dead Kennedys to The Slits and even This Heat reflect
Then you have loser jerkoff bands like the Exploited and Skrewdriver that were just either bad, white supremacist, or both
Andrew Robinson
Punk music is not about politics. Punk music is about freedom of creativity for those who aren't as skilled at music as mainstream artists are. Punk was about saying "Hey, I may not be the best singer or the best guitarist or even the best song writer but I've got it in me and I deserve to let it out and be heard as much as anyone" and that of course led to plenty of bands making politically driven music. But punk itself is not based on politics.
Nathaniel Walker
>right wing """"""""libertarians"""""""" calling other people authoritarians you just want to privatise the functions of the state, daily life is kept the exact same freedom when defined in a negative sense is only useful as the prerequisite for positive freedom, that is the capacity the individual has to fulfill and realise himself in the world
Grayson Perry
I really don't try to listen to music for the political factor ever since most artists are left and I am right
Ryan Young
>muh authoritarian left
James Cruz
Is that a pun?
Caleb Fisher
it didn't it was always left, just not as politically correct in order to use shock value.
Kevin Reed
punks were a bunch of neets, they just got upset when the iron maiden took their benefits.
Jackson Butler
>right wing """"""""libertarians"""""""" >daily life is kept the exact same kek
>Punk music is about freedom of creativity for those who aren't as skilled at music as mainstream artists are. Is that true? I mean, I'd think many rock musicians in general, even before punk, weren't what you'd call skilled. Sure, there was prog, I suppose, but it's a genre that started out with guys like Chuck Berry—technical skill never really was the standout point for rock musicians, mainstream or not.
Well because after a while you get to a point where punk and anti-authority and anti-government seem more counterproductive than working with what's already in place.
Also, I think it has to do in part with punk's current appeal to the middle class. It was originally music made by/for the working class and dead beats. But now anyone with a computer can embrace punk ideals. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Sure it makes the punk scene a little less "authentic" but I think punk music provides a very pragmatic approach to society and politics. It has such a broad appeal that it shouldn't be a surprise that most listeners aren't completely sold on anarchy as a viable option for anything. Punk is dead because punk ideals have evolved with the culture. Still leftist but not that extreme.
>But now anyone with a computer can embrace punk ideals I'm still a bit confused about what these "punk ideals" are, except for that really general and vague blurb about "down with the man" or whatnot.
Angel Clark
The technical skill between playing power chords fast and something like Johnny B Goode is night and day.
Aiden Gomez
It's vague because there are a few different sub-cultures of punk that have different ideals. At the core of it, I think punk is about questioning everything and not accepting everything that society tells us
Gabriel Bailey
>not accepting everything that society tells us But isn't part of the problem that there is a "society" if you will, of punks? I mean, a punk scene, or community, is also a society, and while I'm sure that sentiment is probably meant for general media, and so on, doesn't it also have to apply to other societies and media (i.e. the punk media of zines, blogs, etc. as well as the community that makes and partakes in it).
Jace Kelly
>But isn't part of the problem that there is a "society" if you will, of punks?
But that's the point. Punk isn't against society, obviously society always exists when humans live near each other, it's against not just accepting stuff because it's part of society, that something being the case doesn't mean it's right.
But everyone tried to steal it and say Punk meant what they thought it did and supported their movement, which is what led to stuff like Nazi Punks Fuck Off, and eventually the death of punk. Not to say there aren't bands still making music in the style, but the movement is dead.
Logan Morris
Right it's paradoxical. Generally writers of the punk zines are pushing their own agenda, but the idea should be to get the reader to figure out their own opinions on whatever the subject is. And the "punk" isn't concerned with fitting in the popular opinion because it's what's accepted in the punk community.
But I do think punks and hippies have pretty much converged with the core belief that everyone should just love each other. Punk however is more like "I'll call you a piece of shit right to your face for calling that kid a fag" or something like that.
Dominic King
You might enjoy Phil Ochs.
Aaron Allen
I did a history of punk using 1 album per artist from early influences to modern day, punk is a wide spectrum
Samuel Harris
this lis mediocre, at best
Jason Young
That's a pretty good list user, though you might be better off splitting it up into different categories, you know?
Like, say which lines are early influences, which are 60's punk, which are 70's. It's good as is though, gives a good overview of the sounds.
