When did this "Return of the Jedi is a bad movie" meme start?

When did this "Return of the Jedi is a bad movie" meme start?

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2006

it's not bad, just a bit of a letdown after the first two which are both great.

the Vader v Luke v Sidious scene is fucking GOAT though

I don't know but I hate it when people call the movie shit. It's my favorite Star Wars movie honestly.

since everyone realized "hold on a sec, the Empire were defeated by the fucking Care Bears?!"

In 1983

Memers gonna meme

The more you know about how these star wars movies were made the worse and worse Return of the Jedi gets, to say nothing of the prequels.

1983

starwars.com/news/critical-opinion-return-of-the-jedi-original-reviews

the empire was shit so no surprise

1983

It was a bit of a letdown in comparison to empire which fleshed out the characters and did so many things right. While not a bad movie, Jedi had so much more potential with this interesting setup from empire. While the luke plot was handled in mostly the right way in jedi, the han plot was rushed and disconnected from the rest of the story. He (for example) should have died and make luke's temptation to the dark side stronger.

1983, then ended around 1994, then went completely unheard of in 1999, then came back around 2009.

not sure, but the movie has some flaws that people exaggerate so they think it's bad.
>the empire was defeated by teddy bears throwing rocks and rolling logs
sure, but that sail barge scene and the entire final battle sequence is awesome. in fact, every other part of the movie is awesome.

the movie's out on home video, user. who do you think you're pissing off with that?

The initial negative criticism of Return of the Jedi was actually more about the second Death Star than it was the Ewoks.

> The Ewoks were a mistake. I've considered using CGI to replace them with Wookies as that was my original vision.

- George Lucas radio interview 2012.

The one time he had a good idea...

1983

I like it, my favorite Star Wars movie actually. The ewoks don't bother me at all

There is no such meme. There's a meme that it's overrated and weighed down by its flaws, which is entirely true.

The Special Editions. Seeing the original RotJ in the theater is among my earliest memories, the SE release was more of a punch in the dick than any of the prequel films were.

Wookies in RotJ would've been retarded as fuck the way the film was set up. Ewoks worked because they are believably disregarded. You can't have a planet of free Wookies running around to be the support for the plucky rebel heroes, Wookies were established in A New Hope as a species you don't fuck with. To have a believable scenario would require the film to have more more focus on Endor and it's background and setting to make that believable.

A big theme of the Emperor and the Empire's defeat is that they were overconfident and complacent for the most part. This complacency on the part of the Endor garrison is understandable given that the indigenous natives are 3 foot tall teddy bears chucking rocks. If the indigenous natives were fucking Wookies enslaved in labor camps, complacency on part of the Imperial garrison would be unbelieveable and unacceptable. While a concept of a Wookie slave uprising/rebellion on Endor helping the Rebel Alliance out in the battle would be a workable and interesting plotline, it would not be possible in RotJ as it was, because it would require much more set up than a previously unknown, disregarded indigenous group.

Not that how the Ewoks were depicted didn't have problems, it was bad how their siege engines and traps seemed to be pulled out of their asses. That could've been completely fixed by a scene or two showing the Ewoks building a trap or doing some prep work showing their potential industriousness.

tl;dr: people who think the Ewoks are the problem with RotJ are shortsighted and missed the point.

The RotJ fight seen between Luke and Vader is my favorite duel of the OT.

I always get disappointed when I look at the RotJ concept art of the Imperial capital.

I guess the idea of the Empire disregarding the cuddly Ewoks leading to their downfall is fine, but tune it down a little. The stormtroopers become pathetic when they are bested in combat by two foot teddy bears.

Leia being Luke's sister is just stupid. Couldn't they write their way out of the love triangle in any other way?

When prequel kiddies tried to find something wrong with the OT

That brother-sister plotline went pretty much nowhere...

When people talk about ESB, Irvin Kershner is always brought up.

But nobody ever talks about Richard Marquand.

The fuck you mean? Did you even watch TFA? A big part of it is all about that.

when it came out.

This. Jabba scenes are disjointed from the rest of the movie endor scenes are poorly paced.

Sheev confrontation and space battle are both classic GOAT star wars scenes tho

TFA gets shit for Deathstar 2.0 but it's actually been done before...in Jedi. Plus the characters suck in it too.

youtu.be/aJTsQEoIcvA
POTTERY

The day it was released.
The old usenet posts are objective proof.

In 1983, but it's mostly just because people like to describe things as absolutes. Jedi is a great movie. It is not *as* good as ANH or Empire, so people therefore say it's "bad."

There's so much good stuff in it. Jabba the Hutt, the Sarlaac, the Rancor, Palpatine, Leia's bounty hunter ruse and her slave outfit, Scout troopers and speeder bikes, AT-STs (they were in Empire but not prominently)...

Jedi gets just as much shit for reusing death star two as tfa does

You'd think the Empire would stop putting all their eggs in one basket by now. A gigantic fleet of star destroyers would probably be more useful than one death star.

They spend a quadrillion credits, and unfathomable amounts of steel to build a death star. But the rebel alliance blows it up with a loss of some dozens star fighters, and a couple of capital ships. For every x-wing shot down, a million stormtroopers get incinerated. Jesus christ how do they keep morale up?

When it came out. Compared to Empire it isn't nearly as effectively directed, and the writing is underwhelming to say the least. Luke's arc was handled perfectly though. It's still a good movie. I like it a lot more than TFA, despite its problems.

That wasn't to write out of a love triangle (there wasn't much of one anyway; Luke had very little to do with Leia romantically) so much as a way of writing their way out of the "No, there is another [hope]" line.

Did they think of Leia when they wrote that line back in Empire? I always thought it referred to Vader.

The acting gets noticeably bad with all the family dynamic exposition.

Holy shit!
Is Han ok?