How badly was this scene butchered?
>Dayne dual wielding
>6 v. 2 instead of 7 v. 3
>Dayne going full General Grievous
>The other Kingsguard being an amalgamation of Gerold Hightower and Oswell Whent
>Line delivery more akin to a pissing contest than honorable dialogue
>Ned actor looking like Nail Patrick Harris
>Kingsguard armor
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>How does a scene pictured only in the readers mind not work well on the screen
>implying that adding 2 more actors would automatically make it "not work well"
>suggesting it could ever live up to the expectations of the fans
I haven't watched the show since season 4 and I haven't read past the first book because I hate his prose, but I don't really get how the things you listed, especially the 6v2 instead of 7v3, could "butcher" a fight scene in the books.
>Ned sounding pompous when he should sound sorrowful.
>where is Hightower
>where is Whent's bat symbol
>where is the rest of the dialogue
>DUAL WIELDING
At least Dayne was charismatic as fuck
B O O K F A G S
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There was no fight in the books. Ned remembers going to find his sister and confronting the kings guard at the Tower of joy. He gives a speech and then the memory ends before the fight is described. He just mentions that only him and reed live. The fight was made solely for the show and suprise suprise, it's shit.
Well the other guard could be inside dealing with the Lyanna. we dont know for sure yet.
God you faggots have nothing better to do than complain about a tv show
Season 1 almost entirely lived up to expectations. The Red Wedding lived up to expectations. What makes this scene so impossibly complex that it could never live up to expectations?
God you faggots have nothing better to do than complain about people complaining about a tv show
God you faggots have nothing better to do than complain about people complaining about a tv show
The scene realistically should have been done in Season 1 when Ned gets his shit wrecked by the Lannister guards. There isn't even a fight in the books just the dialogue between Ned and the kingsguard and then Lyanna's "Promise me Ned"
stay mad losers
The scene was created for the show. The fight is left to the imagination of the reader in the books.
Hey Reddit
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This is so much better
D&D try their hardest not to add new characters cause it makes their hipster fanbase confused even if that was what got them praise in the first place, a lot of well developed characters so it's a miracle it not Selmy fighting against just Ned and Frogfu's dad. Even going as far as to kill important or established characters for cheap shock and not having to keep track of them. You'll only see filler character's that you can instantly recognize from now on:
-Random black dressed Nightwatch,
-Random fur dressed Wildling.
-Random rag dressed peasant.
-Random arab dressed dornishman.
-Random soldier with great house crest even if they don't belong to said house.
-Random longhaired swarthy Dothraki.
At this time they are in just for the cash grab.
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No it wasn't. It was fucking awful.
>i am a raging retard
No, that's a lot worse... duh?
>general grievous
kek
Spot on, I knew it reminded me of something
The actor who played Dayne was fine. Hightower was in the scene.
He was the tower itself
Pottery
Yes, you are.
i'm quoting you
>Ser Gerald Hightower was actually the tower (which was high)
Is there no end to Nolan's genius?
lmao
But the part leading up to the fight, which is most of the criticism, is in the books. Furthermore the only thing complained about regarding the fight is Dayne dual wielding, and unless he pulls a sword out of his ass immediately as the fight starts then that's not really left up to imagination.
Aren't Dornishmen supposed to be Spaniards or whatever in the show?
Why didn't Arthur Dayne have a 'Dornish accent.'?
That's my fucking gripe. The show can't even stay consistent to itself.
Dorne was based on Moorish Spain when attitudes towards sex, religion and gender equity were more relaxed.
But there are three kinds of Dornishmen.
The "Salty" Dornishmen love along the coasts and are slim with alive skin and black hair
The "Sandy" Dornishmen are even darker than the Salty with similar hair
The Stony Dornishmen though are paler and descended mostly from the First Men and the Andals
House Dayne is made up of primarily Stony Dornishmen so AD's looks and accents aren't really wrong but the show never explained that so it MAKES and inconsistency that doesn't exist in the books
*live along the coasts
*olive skin
Ohhh yes you're right with the 3 types thing, forgot about that. tru nuff.
How badly has this board been overwhelmed by nitpicking dipshit?
>very badly.
No. It shouldn't have.
>Ignoring that the show did all the significant book dialogue
The scene was good. Get over it. Just cause it did not go down the way it did in the book to the exact detail does not make it bad.
Nigger I bet you didn't even read the books. I bet you didn't even start watching until after season 3.
You're just here to bitch. The show never hasn't trimmed shit down and jazzed things up.
>everyone missing the point of the differences between the book depiction and the show depiction
The scene in the book was from Ned's retrospective POV, It wasn't necessarily canon. It was as he remembered it while high on dope and reminiscing, and when people reminisce they tend to do so through rose-colored glasses. The scene in the show was being witnessed first hand by the viewer from Bran's POV. Ned lied to his kids, and probably everybody, about some aspects of the battle, omitted some things, and embellished others. He told the lie so many times that he started to believe it. They are showing that even Ned Stark, who they have built up as a paragon, was flawed and capable of dis-honer and deceit. He didn't actually beat Dayne like he claimed, and now Bran knows this.
The actor was fine, he looked quite alot like a young Bean and the accent and delivery was spot on. It is reasonable that Ned WAS cocky at the beginning, and remorseful after the fact because he had huge admiration for Dayne and didn't like seeing him lose that way.
Dual wielding looked cool, and historical fencing faggots can eat a dick. It was actually decent fight choreography on a show that seems to have no room left in the budget for competent martial artists or choreographers.
Dayne was in the kingsguard.
Dickriding George and his books on Sup Forums is retarded. There is nothing wrong with deviating from the book to make the story more palatable or relevant to the viewer. See pic related.
Why did they have to change
>Woe to the usurper if we had been.
to whatever he said, something like
>Your friend, the usurper, would be in the ground if we had been.
One sounds super simple yet intimidating, the other one just made me roll my eyes because it was way worse than how he said it in the book
>Dual wielding looked cool, and historical fencing faggots can eat a dick. It was actually decent fight choreography on a show that seems to have no room left in the budget for competent martial artists or choreographers.
lol
>super simple yet intimidating
>Woe to the usurper if we had been.
eh
> the other one just made me roll my eyes because it was way worse than how he said it in the book
Implying you're not autistically watching this shit for things to roll your eyes about.
Implying you'd ever be happy.
The language is modernized. Nobody said fuck in the middle ages but they say it all the time in Westeros. Any time a film uses authentic antiquated language it will lose a portion of its potential audience to people who don't want to fuck with it. I recommended pic related to a friend who said he couldn't watch it because he hated trying to understand the dialogue. That's probably how about 95% of the GOT audience would feel if they used alot of old english in the dialogue.
I'm not saying that its actually hard to understand if you're not retarded, but the vast majority of people would be turned off by it and a significant portion would have no idea what they mean. All things being equal, I prefer the book version of the line but I understand why they do stuff like that. This is a very mainstream show for a very mainstream audience, and mainstream is a nice way of saying "generally stupid"
Agreed.
Season 6 is triggering the autists something fierce.
Wrong.
Ned and six bannermen confront the 3 remaining KG. All but Ned and Reed die. You can infer what happened from this.
You don't think the other one just sounded kinda clunky in comparison? Like it was written by a high schooler who thought it would sound intimidating?
>best two fighters in show are Dayne and Fookin Legend
>both get stabbed in the back
Figures
>mfw I liked it
Daynes are aliens.
my thoughts exactly
Ned only claims that "Howland Reed saved my life". Not that Ned beat the fuck out of the greatest swordsman ever in a 1v1
Ned never claimed to beat Dayne though lol, in fact he basically stated that he would be dead if Howland Reed wasn't there
>You don't think the other one just sounded kinda clunky in comparison?
Thought it sounded fine. It all sounds clunky in the show. And a lot of reads clunky in the book. They're talking in GRRM speak.
>Like it was written by a high schooler who thought it would sound intimidating?
Not anymore than it ever was. It's not like Ned ever wasn't a clunky autist. And they are almost literally highschoolers. Ned is in his teens.
Bran: He's better than my father
3ER: Far Better
Bran: How did father beat him?
3ER: Did he?
Bran: I know he did...I've heard the story a thousand times
He is obviously confused, then disturbed that his father lied to him. I can't believe this is going over anyone's head. They were pretty explicit in illustrating this.
Damn this scene triggered the bookfag.
Someone mentions in an earlier ep that Reed saved Ned's life, can't be fucked to find it for ya but google - that's what Ned told a very few people.
I'm assuming Bran was told ridiculous hero-stories by Stark soldiers and sworn men, all in awe of their lord. People make up and embellish things about those they look up to, especially war stories.
Ned wanted to keep RLJ a secret, and was traumatized by his sisters death. He didn't even tell ROBERT about what happened there, and refused to discuss it with Cat - why would he tell his 8 year old son "a thousand times"?
It was just the Stark version of Castermere, the ultimate "my dad (lord) could beat up your dad".
Not that user but it was other people that said Ned beat Dayne.
Mind you Bran doesn't say "he told me the story a thousand times" he said he's "heard the story a thousand times".
>Dorne was based on Moorish Spain when attitudes towards sex, religion and gender equity were more relaxed.
Holy shit you can't possibly be this stupid
While watching the scene so I could transcribe this dialogue I noticed that Dayne only has one scabbard strapped to him. The second sword that the bookfags are so buttpained about is going to be relevant to the story. It was omitted from Ned's recollection for the reasons I outlined here and there was probably something traumatic that led to his acquisition of it that led Ned to try to forget about it. He either took it from a comrade or an enemy. The second sword looks similar or identical to the first, so probably a comrade. Also, bookfags have been crying about 2 instead of 3 should consider the possibility that the third guy is in the tower, perhaps unarmed or dead because Dayne has his sword for whatever reasons will be revealed, and Ned may have lied and said it was 7v3 because it sounded slightly better than 6v2.
When people tell their kids stories they leave things out. A child may ask his dad "How did you and mom meet?". If the answer is "I fucked her in a bathroom stall at a pool hall after buying her a shot of tequila" He may just shorten that to and clean it up a bit to be "We met while shooting pool, and I thought she was pretty so I started talking to her and we hit it off".
None of those people were there. Most of them were probably serfs who served the Starks and semi-worshipped them as heroes and leaders. Stories about lords exchanged by their serfs were probably ridiculously embellished sometimes Lord Stark was 8 feet tall! I saw him kill 50 men with only a shield! etc. All it takes is a good story teller and a little kernel of truth to blow it up into a hero tale.
No matter how well this scene was done, autists on Sup Forums would say its shit. In my opinion it was pretty well done arguably one of the best fight scenes in the whole series. If you disagree you either have way to high standards for this show or you are autistic.
And that's the fallacy. Writers need to stop projecting our language, fashion, taste etc onto a medieval, and a fictional one at that, universe
this is awful
i bet you bitched and complained when you read MacBeth in high school because you couldn't understand the antique language
That's the advantage of doing a show in a fictional universe like GOT instead of doing historical stuff. I remember hearing a guy on NPR talking about a book that he had just published about the War of the Roses. This guy was a legit royal historian from England, as much of an expert on the medieval history that GOT is loosely based on that you could ever hope to find in the world. He mentioned GOT several times, comparing the War of the Roses to GOT, and the interviewer eventually asked him "It seems like you're a big fan of GOT". He said that he loves it because when he watches an actual historical fiction he just gets annoyed by the little inaccuracies that he sees but a director, costume/set/prop designer never would. He gets caught up on the types of dyes that were available in a region vs the color of the clothes, the smithing techniques required to make a piece of metal that perhaps weren't available in that region at that time, the architecture, cooking methods, royal protocols and customs, all kinds of little stuff that is BIG to him as an historian. When he watches GOT he doesn't have this problem because its Westeros, not England. He hasn't dedicated his life to studying Westeros, and even if he did its all fiction so it can't really be "wrong".
i agree
woe to the usurper is star wars tier dialogue
While 'woe' is somewhat archaic, it's not actually a hard word to grasp given the context in which it is often used. Its not a dealbreaker for me and overal I though the tower of joy scene was fine, but it is one of the more iconic lines of the book.
I know right, the worst are those who make "historical" portrayals but are pretty much as fantasy as GoT
>None of those people were there
Why does it matter if they were there or not?
I'm saying he would've heard a bullshit story from the people instead of from his father himself.
Again, he said he heard the story a million times, not that he's heard it from his dad. ed doesn't even talk about Lyanna much as Sansa said, much less tell the story about how he found her dead and brought her back.
You're too convinced of your own theory based on a single line m8.
Yeah, ignorance is bliss in these instances. I suffer from the same problem, but Im lucky Im just an average yokel, not an actual expert.
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They literally mentioned Hightower in the same episode so why the fuck wasn't he there
I was agreeing with you to an extent. He doesn't say that he DID NOT hear it from his dad. It is reasonable that he heard tales of his dad's glory days from both Ned and others. You're just being pedantic.
>Ned
>talking about war glory
Top kek
>Ned
>Glory
In fact him donig the "general grevious " was a very wise thing.
If you are surounded you want to flail your swords like a mad man to kęep everyone at distance. It's called the Moulenette (not sure on how to write it), or the Mill.
Matt Easton talked about it in one of his videos.
>Ned
>Gloryhole
The worst part of the scene is that it's supposed to be something about Ned being dishonorable because of the way Howland Reed saved him, though Bran remembered it was supposed to be a fair fight. Barring the fact that Ned never boasted and admitted he was saved by Howland, what relevance does it even have anymore if he wasn't honorable?
I waited years for this fucking scene. Painful to think about
It wasn't Ned being dishonorable, it was Howland being dishonorable.
And it doesn't seem like Ned and Howland spoke much after that and even Howland was ashamed of it apparently since he never spoke about the rebellion to Jojen. So it might serve to answer why Howland is rarely seen
You can see how unhappy Ned was ordering CIA to bribe the goldcloaks, and how pissed he got at Robert for ordering Dany-poisoning.
The guy hates being around dishonourable people, he hates seeing dishonourable things, and to benefit from one must rankle.
Holy shit you pleb. The 3 type thing is just something that maester who wrote a history book pulled out of his ass. No Dornish character refers to another Dornishman as salty or stony.
so where was gerold?
I don't call people Berbers or Catalan, but that doesn't mean it's not a thing. Normies say "darker skinned" and maesters use the scientific definition of the racial type.
Where was "the great white blade Dawn"? D&D literally don't plan more than one season at a time.
Do you know where you are?
The kingsguard that died first was Gerold.
He was an amalgamation of Gerold and Whent but billed as Gerold
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And there is no Whent around, though he may be lying cause NDA.
But he is right that there are light haired Dornes and dark ones.
There's no description of Arthur Dayne's appearance IIRC, but Ashara (his sister) had dark hair and purple eyes and Edric Dayne, his nephew or something, had pale blonde hair and purple eyes (I think)
The Daynes interbred with Targaryeans at some point, but even then they precede the arrival of the Rhoynar (who became the dark skinned Dornishmen)
>listening to NPR
TESTING THIS THREAD WITH NO SURVIVORS
Holy fuck are you literally 15 years old?
They fucked it up so bad. Holy fuck. The best scene in all the books, reduced to faggot shit.
It was a great scene and the people who are so butthurt about it literally masturbate to fanart of ASoIaF
I read all the books as well and I couldn't care less that they modified it to fit TV better. It was exciting and the dialogue was a perfect mix of source material and unspergifying it for TV.
In the books everything is all fantasy and epic
But i think they try to minilize it in the show to make it more truthful to real life. Just like all stories and legends can sound amazing, but in person its just not really special, its just real life
thats why all the fighting scene look more like real medival age and not crouching-tiger-hidden-dragon tier fantasy
So maybe this was a formative experience for him, and was instrumental in turning him from a a cocky little shit teenager to a person dedicated to chivalry?
The strongest part of the whole GOT story is the character transformations. Jamie starts as a cocky shit talker who mocks everyone and is humbled somewhat by his experience and grows to respect people like Brienne. Along the way we see that he is actually very haunted by the way everyone judges him without knowing that he saved thousands of lives, so he goes from being depicted as a scumbag to a quiet hero who didn't do it for glory but truly to save innocent. The Hound is a ruthless child murdering brute, but he is also humbled by his experience and we see his pain as well as he describes his shitty childhood and awful treatment by father and brother, so we can actually sympathize with him despite what a cunt he's been to everyone. Theon he does terrible and arrogant things and then gets beaten down so bad and becomes so pathetic that you wish he would catch a break because he's had enough, almost to the point of forgiving his crimes.
Mostly it has been bad guys who were shown to have a good side. Now they are doing the opposite with Ned, transforming him from a paragon to a flawed, haunted-by-his-past deceitful and perhaps false hero.
Now that the show is surpasing the books chronologically the sound of butt hurt is going to become deafening. Bookfags are going to sound like the Rob Stark fan girls who were crying when he died, but they will do it for every new plot development.
It was explicit in the books as well. Reed didn't get injured; he blindsided Dayne while he was focused on Ned.
>thats why all the fighting scene look more like real medival age and not crouching-tiger-hidden-dragon tier fantasy
If that were true they would go full HEMA.
He dual wields in the show, for fuck's sake.
Besides it's not like GRRM's fight scenes are full on fucking swashbuckling. You're mistaken in such an egregious sense that I want to pop you in the mouth.
HEMA?
I wouldn't be that sore about being dishonorable if it saved my fucking friend's life.
He fucked off to the swamp simply because he hates cunts.
It was explicitly NED'S FUCKED UP VISIONS WHILE HE WAS ROBOTRIPPING ON SYRUP
It doesn't make it true just because he remembers it that way. You'll see next week. If there was internal POV dialogue from Viserys it would probably be a bunch of bullshit about how he's a fucking dragon and everyone else is shit, and in reality he was an androgynous inbred faggot. A character's internal dialogue describing something is not inherently objective truth about anything.