Cornucopia of Resources / Guide Read the guide before asking questions. djtguide.neocities.org/
Special Sup Forums FAQ: >What's the point of this thread? For learners of Japanese to come and ask questions and shitpost with other learners. Japanese people learning English can come too I guess. >Why is it here? The mods moved us here and won't let us go anywhere else. >Why not use the pre-existing Japanese thread? The cultures are completely different. >Go back to Sup Forums There's the door
>私は たしか鞄の中で眠りついて If i'm not mistaken, i sleep inside bad?
Eli Cooper
Staying focused: Experiment with pomodoro technique or otherwise timeboxing with small breaks every so often. Mental fatigue is a thing and even a small, five minute break every so often goes a HUGE way toward helping alleviate this (speaking from sorta masochistic personal experience). When you sit down make sure your study area isn't cluttered, try to eliminate as many potential distractions as is feasible. Get your coffee / tea ready beforehand, go to the washroom prior to a study chunk, turn phone on silent etc. When you set yourself to studying do that and only that - maybe consider doing study away from your main PC if it's a constant distraction source.
Physical: Get some light exercise time in during the small breaks in your study sessions. Don't be super tired, your brain consolidates short term memory into long term ones while you sleep so it's very important. Take a multivitamin if you don't have a balanced diet.
Time to study: Early morning and just before bed tend to be the two best times for highest retention rates for the next day. Otherwise, as long as you're not distracted by outside factors (noise, heat/cold etc.) any time is fine.
Anki Settings: Make sure that if you're learning new pieces of knowledge entirely inside of Anki (aka only seeing the shit as anki cards) that you increase the number of learning steps and maybe lower the starting ease. Seeing things more often initially will help your retention rate some, as you're solidifying the knowledge more firmly up front via spending more time with each item.
Staying Consistent: Set an initial goal for your week, month and year. It could be x # of words / get to such and such point in your grammar guide / read x manga etc. Reevaluate how feasible your goals are on a weekly basis: as humans we tend to overestimate how much we can accomplish in a day; yet underestimate how much can be accomplished in a year. You WILL need to adjust, so just accept that original plans are a guideline only.
Jacob Morales
Get some sort of visual accountability system: habitica ties in nicely with much of the above, you could try using ankiweb.net/shared/info/1771074083 or even a simple spreadsheet listing what you've done each day. At the very least, look through anki's graphs from time to time. It's important to be able to look back to see how much you've accomplished (or have been slacking); language learning is a very long road and it's easy to lose focus when you don't have tangible progress.
Also, despite all of the anki talk posted above, definitely don't forget to read. Your brain has to make the fuzzy logic connections somehow, and becoming a human dictionary doesn't help that. Knowing all the words in a sentence yet having no idea what the sentence actually means is a very real problem, so include a minimum reading time / pages / listening to whatever as part of your goals.
Eli Cruz
>るにだ sounds like korean
Hunter Mitchell
...
Landon Richardson
今日も一日頑張るぞい!
Carson James
Is there a difference in meaning between 愛おしい and 愛しい? Is one of them more standard or common?
Mason Evans
If you want to know which of two words is more common you can Google both and see which gets more hits. 愛しい has twice as many as 愛おしい.
If you want differences in meaning you should use Japanese-Japanese dictionaries. These two do seem to overlap.
>いとし・い【▽愛しい】 >1 かわいく思うさま。恋しく慕わしい。「―・いわが子」「―・い人」 Being thought of fondly. Yearned for and beloved. >2 かわいそうだ。ふびんだ。「哀れな境遇を―・く思う」 Pathetic. Pitiful.
>いとおし・い〔いとほしい〕【▽愛おしい】 >1 大事にして、かわいがりたくなるさま。たまらなくかわいい。「どの子犬も―・く思う」 Making one want to hold dear and fawn over. Unbearably adorable. >2 かわいそうだ。気の毒だ。「被害にあった子供たちが―・い」 Pathetic. Sorrowfully unfortunate. >3 困ったことである。つらい。 Causing consternation. Painful or difficult.
Joseph Powell
I can't see any difference between them. If any, 愛おしい is like "loooovely" and emphasize the emotion.
愛しい itoshii 愛おしい itooshii
Hunter Scott
but then what if you say them both together like 愛し愛おし
probably that expresion might be in writing or something, and rhyming and emphasizing.
Christopher Harris
That's a neat mindmap.
I was thinking about making a flowchart addressing all points of learning Japanese, and how to learn each aspect of the language with different approaches. Would that interest anyone, seeing we already have the Guide?
Kevin Rodriguez
Sounds like the hugest time sink but at least it'll look cool.
Hudson Jackson
When I say "addressing all points", I mean mentioning what is out there to be learned, not making a bullet list of all grammar topics in existence.
It's more a "how to build your own studying route", so people can have a north, quite how Canadanon did it, but more specific on the language and less about the motivation process.
Nathaniel Smith
Kind of like this thing?
Asher Collins
Yes, but with a little elaboration.
BRbros, I had a Kumon sheet with their whole study program, but I can't seem to find it now, have you ever seen that? Would be cool having another source to contrast with.
Chase Cook
People say to avoid Romaji by any means necessary, does this include English subs? would it develp bad habit?
Carter Parker
I guess English is technically Romaji. The issue with using subs is defaulting to looking at them and paying less attention to the Japanese. That can be bad, or inefficient at least. If you want to avoid it you can put them on a delay or enable them only when you didn't get what was being said.
Parker Robinson
What are some good things to use for listening practice?
Lincoln Clark
has any one here ever read any novels in Japanese?
i'm trying to find the Harry Potter series for free online in pdf form but i'm having no luck, if you have any other recommendations i'd love to hear them.
Ian Williams
mega:///#F!EMpAyToL!zvcXRz4Yq_n-SRifJpXsEw!tNYUTIJJ The first two volumes with full audio.
Owen Thompson
Whatever you like. I like let's plays and anime.
Wyatt King
Look for ハリー・ポッター in the CoR or online reader linked there.
If someone comes along and says "Hello, I'd like to do Wanikani, please help me set it up" do you help them, or do you say "why not do Anki instead, it's strictly better"? This is the same.
Josiah Fisher
If the subs are in english, obviously it's OK to read English in romaji. You're reading English in romaji right now, there isn't really any other way to do it. Generally watching anime with sub's is fine, although you probably won't learn much it's good to get exposure. It's actually not that hard to look away from the subs when you don't need them, since there's usually something else on screen to draw your eye.
Lucas Williams
>although you probably won't learn much This is true in the short term, but watching anime (for example) with English subs for years and years before you start actually start studying the language can give you a huge head start. Even though you don't really learn anything, you kind of internalize the sounds and flow of the language. It's definitely not completely useless.
David Baker
Hoping to get some help, sorry for all the text. I see this formation a lot, where something will be marked with a direct object and will be connected to the following item that is marked by a に. Sometimes it's easy as the に item is just a suru verb "in order to" formation: 外国語を勉強に大いに時間が必要だ (without referring to a grammar book I think the は can be omitted). Then there's also that formation like 美術館を訪ねに行く.
But then there seems to be times when the direct object looks like it connects to a word marked by に but the word is not a verb. Here's one example I saw today but I feel like I see this all the time (the context here is a Toyo Keizai article about older men wanting to marry younger women):
... and now that I'm about done with this post I see on jisho that "をもとに" is an idiomatic expression lol. However, I feel as though I've seen this [noun]を[noun]に many times with other nouns besides もと, so am I to believe these are all just idiomatic constructions, which are allowing a direct object to not attach to a verb? Hoping to get some insight or even other experiences on this, thanks.
Dylan Wilson
Those are different things.
>外国語を勉強に大いに時間が必要だ Implicit する, as you say.
>美術館を訪ねに行く 訪ね is not a noun, but the stem of 訪ねる followed by 行く ("go visit").
>客観的データをもとに、これまで「世間の常識」とされていた事柄を覆してきました。 を元にして means "based on", して can be omitted ("based on objective data [...]").
Alexander White
The direct object marked with を doesn't "attach" to what comes immediately after it. It's the object of whatever the verb is.
>情報を脳に伝える to relay information to the brain 伝える 情報 to the 脳
And then in the same way: >俺をばかにする To make a fool of me する 俺 into a ばか
In the example sentence you give, the verb is implied. >客観的データをもとに[して]、 する 客観的データ into the もと
Connor Powell
Alright thanks for help guys. So I take it that the を will always have a verb whether implied or explicit.
Angel Moore
What are some good resources for understanding the othee major dialects if Japanese (Kansai and Tohoku)?
Matthew Cruz
what's a good e-book reader for android that can look up words
Oliver Ward
You are assuming only content.
I too downloaded the HP books when I started to study (but haven't really tried them out yet). The key point here is we are already familiar with the story and have already read it (we can even look at the original if some part is tricky), so it's way easier to read than a new, but Japanese, novel.
I did this with French - picked a book I had already read in Portuguese years ago and gave it a try. Knowing the plot helped me not getting too worried and finding landmarks.
But the book I picked was French in the original, so there's that.
Don't reject romaji. Unless you want to write "zigoku ha mettyakuttya tanosii!" in the future.
But don't rely on it for studying/reading, do it in kana whenever possible. Knowing how to transcribe stuff to romaji properly is an useful skill, though.
You could do the exact same thing by reading a manga/VN you've already read the English translation of, or reading an LN you've seen the anime adaptation of. This has all the benefits you've listed, without the downsides of having to read a Japanese translation from English as your learning content.
Jaxson Perez
typhon
Luis Gutierrez
ありがとう
Grayson Collins
>未来 みらい (n,adj-no) the future (usually distant); future tense; the world to come So that's why I hardly ever hear it. Mirai Nikki really fooled me.
Josiah Lopez
Step 1) Know normal Japanese Step 2) Listen to several hours of whatever dialect you want to learn
They really aren't different enough from normal Japanese to need specialized study unless you want to be some weirdo who can do pitch accents for them correctly, but you probably can't do that for tokyo japanese either.
Caleb Johnson
This isn't /jp/'s autism-fest of a DJT, don't assume anyone here is learning the language to read comic books or watch cartoons. Some of us are learning for serious and mature purposes.
Chase Young
笑わせるなwww
Brody Davis
And that's why you can't learn Japanese.
Tyler Collins
Say hi to your mum for me when you see her upstairs for dinner.
Liam Ortiz
Can the verb 包む be used to refer to hugging?
I mean, would it make sense in the appropriate context
Andrew Lewis
That is an issue of study programs, not a manner of personal taste in entertainment. I heavily favour manga above everything else related to Japanese in terms of entertainment and will happily go out of my way to encourage anons who are interested in getting started in reading manga, etc. However if someone was speificially asking about light novel or visual novel X, Y, and Z and I knew something about it which could help them out, I'm not about to start lecturing at them that they should instead read X, Y and Z manga titles while putting on airs of superiority out of it. That comes across as really obnoxious and shows a general lack of respect for the user you are trying to open up a suggestion to.
On an entirely related note, has anyone played the VN サナララ? nicovideo.jp/watch/sm60369 Randomly happened upon this above clip. Lewd Hidamari's make me rather uncomfortable. Apparently one of Ume sensei's pen names was/is 藤宮アプリ. Makes sense with her doujin circle name and all but it's still weird, like stumbling upon a porno video online with a family member in it.
Jack Barnes
Yeah, man, some of us are learning for mature purposes, like 18+ manga and visual novels.
Ryan Smith
Sort of but as an auxiliary usage on the context of wrapping something, when the term is 包む・くるむ. Here is the example which a bunch of dictionaries use, so I'll copy/paste: >赤ん坊を毛布で包(くる)んでで抱く But they also come with the caution: >は全体をおおって見えなくするわけではないから、「包む」を使いにくい。 So then even the example is kind of hard to use unless it is more about fully wrapping the baby in a manner which completely covers the baby while carrying it it. It's more of a physical wrapping of an object as opposed to an embracing or hold. Here is something cute, or lame, depending on your sensibilities (I find it kind of cute) playing with the idea of 抱く and 包む: ameblo.jp/iofc-chiba-bbqa/entry-12086171948.html
Although I see where you're coming from, I'd argue that non-Japanese entertainment is the exception, simply because translations from another language tend to be written less naturally than original works. But my attitude may have come across a little harsh, so I apologise.
What are your all-time favourite manga, anyway?
Austin Ortiz
The difference is that Harry Potter is an English book. He was merely suggesting that perhaps reading books written in Japanese instead of books written in English and translated into Japanese (with all the hurdles that come with translation, especially between two languages as distinct from each other as Japanese and English) might be a better idea if you're looking for reading practice.
Ryan Bailey
>What are your all-time favourite manga, anyway? よつばと! 苺ましまろ ひだまりスケッチ ゆるゆり Every time someone posts imagery from or brings up something about either of these series I get and urge to stop what I'm currently reading and reread those series again.
>Harry Potter is an English book. Which has a Japanese version in the CoR with full native audio accompaniment. It was also incredibly popular in Japan, so the natives different have any issues with the translation. At the end of the day it's still Japanese written by Japanese for Japanese, even if it wasn't the original language of the work. If user enjoys these sort of works then, the same as before, enjoying Japanese written by Japanese for Japanese. user is still enjoying the Japanese and will learn something from it. It's not like we are only able to to read a small amount of books in our lifetime and must be hyper selective with them.
On a tangent, I found this which is a little amusing: nbakki.hatenablog.com/entry/All_Time_Best-selling_Books >Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone - 510 million copies >Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets - 433 million copies >Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban - 383 million copies Holy fucking shit, what? J. K. Rowling must be stupidly wealthy.
Jordan Mitchell
Have you tried some of the best VNs and LNs and decided they're not to your taste? How would you rate the anime adaptations as compared to the manga for those last 3?
Carson Howard
>Japanese written by Japanese for Japanese More like "Japanese translated by Japanese for Japanese". At the end of the day, translations are not rewrites - even the most liberal translation can only deviate from the source material to a certain degree. But yeah, whatever, I will admit I'm extremely biased in regard to this particular issue. I hate reading translations because I just can't shake the feeling that I'm getting an "inferior" experience, to the point where I actually have trouble enjoying the content. In fact, my main reason for picking up this language to begin with was not the vast amount of untranslated content, but the quality of fan translations.
Jacob Jones
Does anyone have a download link to an epub of 金閣寺?
Justin Diaz
I'd be grateful for a copy as well.
I actually just started reading the English translation.
Caleb Ross
Reading a (professional) EN->JP translation is not a bad idea at all. Not only it will be perfect Japanese (c'mon, ESLs, haven't you read this kind of translated books in your childhood? They were perfectly fine!), but it will also provide a bridge that might be useful for beginners: the sentences, the culture, the line of thought will be English/Western.
That is way more relatable than reading some chink shit with a distant culture and assumptions about the target audience. The ideas will be less abstract, but they are still written in chinkspeak, so you learn how to correspond your barbaric whito piggu terminology to the way of the true samurai warrior.
I'm not saying it's better than reading mango, I'm just saying it's not necessarily worse as you seem to be trying to paint it. It'll give you an extra angle, if nothing else.
Oliver Lopez
Wtf, thank's a lot guys, i'm really grateful! hope you do wonderful.
Angel Allen
It's easier to read a story you already know well, duh.
And light novels are dumb. I'm interested in serious Japanese novels, but obviously you can't just fucking pick up Temple of the Golden Pavilion as your first Japanese book.
Also
Kayden Green
>And light novels are dumb. Says someone who's never read イリヤの空
Chase Baker
>荷札 shows up >manage to think it's a new card composed of 苛礼
Sometimes it's best not to think too hard.
Parker Howard
JUST HOW MANY WORDS FOR "WHAT" DO EXIST IN THIS FUCKING LANGUAGE
Ryder Hill
何?
Luke Barnes
どれ? And I could swear I learnt about five others but I can only remember them when I see them
Ethan Hill
600+ cards, 50 minutes
Sebastian Murphy
Wait till you see how many ways there are to say "system"
Nicholas Gutierrez
どれ means "which", though.
Juan Richardson
Anki told me it means what though :(
Ethan Wright
Always double- or triple-check with outside sources.
Carson Smith
Is it どれ as in 「どれくらい」 ?
Alexander Ross
Canadians everybody
Henry Wilson
>At the end of the day, translations are not rewrites - even the most liberal translation can only deviate from the source material to a certain degree Sure, it may not be as good as it is in the source language but that isn't the point. >I hate reading translations because I just can't shake the feeling that I'm getting an "inferior" experience I feel you man, that used to irritate me a lot with fan scanlations of manga. However as a learner you really aren't ever going to be able to "get" the "best" out of a written work simply due to the fact that you're not fluent. You can always go back and reread things to enjoy them in a different manner at a later date. As a beginner or what have you I think perhaps one shouldn't get so caught up on trying to capture the best of the moment when reading. I think part of it is a fear of error, a fear of misunderstanding. These are things that can be positive if they are embraced for what they are as a learning experience. It's a bit like with photography: you have these amateurs with their new flashy cameras and nice lenses but so many of them tend to hold back, thinking that every shot they take has to be good. They don't allow themselves the room for bad shots and due to this they hesitate and hold back in taking more photos when in reality they should be trying to take as many photos as they possibly can to learn from. How that translates into reading with learners is that I've noticed you get a lot of people who feel that they cannot read X or Y until they reach a certain point or that they ought be reading X or Y or Z to be the most "efficient" in their reading. Language exposure is like alcohol, it's not about the price per bottle, it's about how much you drink and how often. Speaking of which, fuck me I ramble too much and I need a drink.
Can I just say how much I hate the /jp/ DJT thread? My God, the autism is off the charts. It's like those cunts are psychologically unable to answer a straight question without either shitting on you or jumping into a discussion over whether watching anime as a beginner is good or whatever autismo goes on in that thread.
Ethan Rodriguez
Shit, overlooked your post. Sorry bru. Beached az. >Have you tried some of the best VNs and LNs and decided they're not to your taste? Not sure what the best are but haven't really all that much experience with either VNs or LNs. >How would you rate the anime adaptations as compared to the manga for those last 3? Different? I feel they give them extra life and a different angle for some, in particular 苺ましまろ. I fucking adore how they handled the OVAs. The short hill scene has permanently engraved the phrase 透き通った風 into my mind. youtu.be/haLxyJXSIG4?list=PL3D63C92C48E54937&t=373 千佳「わああ気持ちいー」 アナ「ほんと、透き通った風」 千佳「透き通った?」 アナ「ん?あれ、そっか」 アナ「もともと透き通ってて見えないんだから・・・おかしいですね」 千佳「ううん、あたしもなんとなくわかるよ」 千佳「時々、風が吹くといつもの景色がぱーって違う色に変わっちゃう気がするの」 アナ「あ、そういうのあります?」 千佳「うん。おんなじ場所でも、あっ今日はいつもと違う色だなって感じたり」 千佳「不思議だよね」 アナ「そうですね。きっと色がないから、その時の気持ち次第で違って感じるのかも」 (´・ω・｀) ゆるゆり season three received a lot of flack at least on Sup Forums for being less focused on gags or whatever but, I don't know, that's my favourite season and I feel they captured the spirit of the manga moreso than the previous two seasons. That is including the OVA content in with season three. I'd really like it if the same company adapted another season down the line.
If I have zero knowledge of the grammatical differences between Kansai/Tohoku and Tokyo-ben, how am I going to understand them in the first place? If I didn't know before hand that they use "hen" instead of "nai", how am I supposed to understand them when they say "wakarahen"?
Jace Cruz
Cross my heart and (hope to) die?
Fuck, I love kanji.
Luis Thomas
context
Ian Reyes
>さあ歌ってごらん >歌? でも私は歌なんて? Can anyone explain, what mean なんて in this context?
Isaac Murphy
I like to think that /jp/ represents the japanese cities for all its glory; weird ass shit, otaku and what not, all that mumbo jumbo
while Sup Forums is more like the provincial areas where people are nicer and comfier
Cameron Campbell
>でも私は歌なんて(歌えない・下手なの・知らない、など) The rest of the sentence is redacted.
Bentley Allen
Hey guys, if you have a curiosity to study about Japan and Korea, this site is very interesting.
Yeah, there are some real shitheads posting there unfortunately, or perhaps just one very loud shithead. Since the thread is so slow though I keep it open anyway, it's not that hard to ignore a few idiots and sometimes it seems like this side is even a little too soft.
Dominic Thompson
興味のある新聞記事をノートに貼って集めている。
What does the のある part do in this sentence? It seems to me that 興味 needs to be turned into an adjective in order to modify "newspaper article" into "interesting newspaper article", but how does のある do that?
Gabriel Gray
Just 興味 by itself wouldn't work as an adjective, since you wouldn't be specifying whether or not there is interest. So in order to express that there is interest, you say 興味がある, which can then be used to describe a noun: 興味がある新聞記事 However, in subordinate clauses, you are allowed to change が to の: 興味のある新聞記事 Note that the の in this case isn't the possessive particle or anything like that. It's for all intents and purposes equivalent to the が. Also note that this only works in subordinate clauses. If you remove 新聞記事, using の would be grammatically incorrect.
Sebastian Perry
>Been studying everyday >Feel like I'm making some decent progress >Try to read anything outside of the material I've covered and none of it makes sense I can't tell if it's because I don't know enough grammar yet, or because I'm not used "slang", or maybe it's a combination of both.
Grayson Nguyen
What is it that's giving you trouble? Post an example sentence from a random manga and tell us what you don't understand at it.
Dominic Hughes
>However, in subordinate clauses, you are allowed to change が to の I see. This is something I didn't know. I probably shouldn't reach too far from my current grammar skill level but its too fun not to.
Thanks.
Isaiah Perry
Basically everything.
It's not really a problem or anything. I just need to keep studying. I haven't been at it for too long.
