PLC

Do Russians learn anything about Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth?

Rusins made a big number of it's citizens and the country stretched as far as 150km from Moscow.

I mean we even had our Smoleńsk allies at Grunwald.

Other urls found in this thread:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmelnytsky_Uprising
gre4ark.livejournal.com/444022.html
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1612_(film)
youtube.com/watch?v=b1skwxLMIuc
imdb.com/title/tt0072021/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

no

Not so much.On history lessons we are taught that this was one of the major powers in 16-17th centuries which oppressed orthodox people on it'so territory and tried to conquer us using a fake son of Ivan IV

Hmm, but PLC didn't opress the orthodox people and was quite strong before XVI century, but the rest is kinda right. In face there were 2 fake sons of his.

I was just curious since for ethnic western Russians it can be considered part of their heritage.

>didn't opress the orthodox people

Of course it did, introduction of Greek Catholicism is widely seen as oppression. Just imagine, that Russians in 19th century close all Roman Catholic churches and make Poles pray in "Roman Orthodox" churches, so the church, the mass look the same like in Roman Catholicism, but we have to obey orthodox dogmates and the Moscow Patriarchate instead of Vatican.

Wouldn't it be oppression for catholics?

>was quite strong before XVI century

He didn't say it wasn't, he just referred to it as the major power and the peak of Polish strength dates back to 16-17th century indeed.

>I was just curious since for ethnic western Russians it can be considered part of their heritage.

How many Poles consider the Russian Empire "part of their heritage"? I mean, how many Poles consider the Russian tzar the rightful king of Poland? How many Poles think that life in Russia was great, that "together" with Russia, Poland was a world superpower? How many Poles can say, that our capital was in Petersburg, not in Warsaw?

>While the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth remained a union of two nations: of Poland and Lithuania, a sizable population of Orthodox Ruthenians were ignored. Oppressed by the Polish magnates, they took their wrath out on Poles, as well as Jewish traders, who often managed Polish nobles' estates. The advent of the Counter-Reformation worsened relations between the Orthodox and Catholic Churches. Many Orthodox Ukrainians considered the Union of Brest as a threat to their Orthodox faith.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmelnytsky_Uprising

2bh i have never even heard about it before Sup Forums, and i have a higher '"education'"

Yes, but not in any details. It is only discussed in the context of Time of Troubles. I'm not even sure wether or not partitions were covered.

The thing I don't understand about Russia is how they don't care about their heritage in Poland. For example, hundreds of thousands of Germans visit Poland every year, to see their former cities (Danzig, Breslau), while very few Russians come to Poland to see Russian cities, like Łódź, which is like little Petersburg.

We have so many Russian churches, cemetries, palaces in Poland, yet Russians don't care. This is sad. I'm sure more Poles visit Katyń&Smoleńsk than Russians visit Łódź.

Here are some photos and description of the city:

gre4ark.livejournal.com/444022.html

They are covered.With 1 or 2 lines of text

>Polish partitions are covered with 1 or 2 lines of text
>Russians talk about wars against some Chukchas in the middle of nowhere instead

now I'm literally butthurt

Religion wise Poland was the most "free" country in Europe at that time.

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1612_(film)
I watched this film some time ago, seems like they didn't want to acknowledge the PLC as anything other than a bunch of oppressive murderous anti-Russians.

>Religion wise Poland was the most "free" country in Europe at that time.

Not for orthodox people. We literally banned the orthodox church in Poland and established a different, heretic church we forced all orthodox people to join. How is this tolerant? If Russians had done the same to Poles in 19th century, we would talk about it as an example of oppression, just like russification.

>Germans visit Poland every year, to see their former cities (Danzig, Breslau), while very few Russians come to Poland to see Russian cities, like Łódź
because it's mostly poor peasants in russia who care about all that "muh herritage" stuff but they are too poor to visit those places you mentioned.
and the ones who have money usually don't care about such things at all.
it is really this simple.

It's funny because the Smoleńsk vassal army was under grunwald and they fought well, so did the Czechs or Romanians/Moldavians.

Well commies depicted all of it like oppressive imperialism, so nobody here cares ,besides 1,5 historians. And also Poland depict as highly russophobic in mass media so average people will not come there in future

>because it's mostly poor peasants in russia who care about all that "muh herritage" stuff but they are too poor to visit those places you mentioned.

It's not exactly true, a lot of Russians visit Prague, it seems that every middle class Russian has been to Czechia, so it means that they care about "heritage stuff", just not about their own, Russian heritage, but about German and Czech heritage. It's pathetic.

>Russians talk about wars against some Chukchas in the middle of nowhere instead
absolutely not. 90% of our history lessons both in middle/high school and universities are about the dynasties of russian tsars and about the great patriotic war (not even the whole world war 2). and of course about the october revolution.

Well, chukchis are russian citizens, so it makes sense to include them in the history course. Partitions, while an important event in the history of Poland, are not exactly important to Russia.

>Well commies depicted all of it like oppressive imperialism, so nobody here cares

First of all, maybe commies did, but Russians don't do it anymore. Russians love the old palaces and houses in Petersburg or Moscow. And in Łódź we have the same Russian Imperial architecture.

> 90% of our history lessons both in middle/high school and universities are about the dynasties of russian tsars

So basically about wars they waged. So Poland should be mentioned quite often.

Poland existed before 1918?

>they care about "heritage stuff", just not about their own, Russian heritage, but about German and Czech heritage. It's pathetic.
lel no they don't. they just heard that "prague is a beautiful city" so they need to see, it's not about the heritage stuff at all. just like many people especially the women want to see paris at least once during their lifetime.

A lot of Russians have Polish origin. Probably even more, than Chukcha.

That's not what he meant, m8. Chukchis are mentioned, while partitions are not.

Poles left fucktons of Genes everywhere up to Moscow. Dunno how people can deny it.

>So basically about wars they waged. So Poland should be mentioned quite often
no no. it's literally about who was whose father, how old was she/he when took the power, what he studied etc.

Poland existed long before Germany, Hans.

>prague is a beautiful city

So this beauty is all about their heritage: palaces, houses, castles etc., not about commieblocks on the outskirts of the city. We have the same in Poland, just RUSSIAN palaces, houses and churches, so it should be more interesting to you, than Prague. For example, more Poles visit Lviv than Prague, because even if Lviv is poorer and worse maintained and maybe even uglier, it's still our, Polish heritage, so for every Pole it will be always more important than Czech or German heritage.

>Chukchis are mentioned
t. yakut
i don't remember we studied anything related to chukchis or other asiatic "'people'" we cucked.

Dude, people go to Prague because it's considered beautiful and affordable, it has nothing to do with heritage. Muh heritage autism barely exists in Russia.

>Muh heritage autism barely exists in Russia.

So why did you annex Crimea?

Chukchis were mentioned exactly because they were not cucked, but resisted the conquest and we're incorporated peacefully eventually.

you're truly obsessed with HERITAGE. nobody gives a single fuck about it. what is important is that city is beautiful right now, and it doesn't matter why or when it happened.
if you start promoting your lodz and other polish shitholes maybe they will become more popular and people start visiting them. just don't stress on heritage. i already said that people who have money to visit it don't care about those things.

"Muh heritage" stuff is almost nonexistent, because current government follows the commie line that Russian nationalism=nazism

lmao you're actually a fucking yakut or whatever asiatic scum

That's a completely different kind of autism. A mixture of we wuz and muh rightful clay.

Are you legit retarded or did you not cover history in school yet?

>In face there were 2 fake sons of his.

weren"t there 3 false Dmitris?

because crimea is a huge and extremely important russian military base and since ukraine started leaning towards nato russia couldn't let crimea to went out of russia's control

>nobody gives a single fuck about it.

I don't believe, you would be literally the only nation in the world with such approach. Every European nation cares about its heritage.

>other polish shitholes

Pls don't bully, only love here.

>because current government follows the commie line that Russian nationalism=nazism

So annexing Crimea should be recognized as nazi, shouldn't it?

i repeat maybe in yakutia or wherever you're from you study it, it's like a special course in your schools. but nobody outside your regions does it.

But your enthusiasm is not about the military base, but about "our people", "our heritage", "our subtropics"

>Every European nation
this is exactly the point. we're a eurasian multinational, multicultural state. also the s*viet un*on destroyed our national (for ethnic russians only i mean) identity completely.

>"our people", "our heritage", "our subtropics"
that's just to cover the real intentions. just like people living in crimea making it look like a normal region and not just a giant military base. the same with kaliningrad.

Advanced autism. Nobody gives a shit about MUH HERITAGE when it comes to 99% of all travel. Things like Germans going to Breslau and us going to Lwów are the outliers and will die off soon anyway as the memory of the older, exiled generations is forgotten. People pick their destinations based on overall touristic appeal (culture, entertainment, beauty, weather, costs), not MUH RUSSIAN TO FOREIGN HERITAGE RATIO. Prague is just much prettier than the God forsaken shithole that is Łódź and that's all there is to it.

Retarded it is then, gotcha

>Every European nation cares about its heritage.
Maybe in Europe it is true, but here no one gives a shit about it.

How about returning into Russian commonwealth Poland? Without Poland this place is sucks.

>we're a eurasian multinational, multicultural state.

That's nice, at least you're more tolerant than us.

Kaliningrad is a very nice city.

> Things like Germans going to Breslau and us going to Lwów are the outliers and will die off soon anyway as the memory of the older, exiled generations is forgotten.

Bullshit, more and more young Poles visit Lviv and they always look for Polish heritage there. A lot of young Germans visit German cities in Poland and they always look for German heritage too.

>People pick their destinations based on overall touristic appeal (culture, entertainment, beauty, weather, costs),

If it was the case, no Pole would visit Vilnius, because overall, it's a small and poor town without much of sophisticated architecture and even an average town in Poland (especially western or southern) looks more attractive than Vilnius. Yet thousands of Poles visit this city, just because of Polish heritage. The same could be said about Grodno, it's even smaller and shittier.

>Kaliningrad is a very nice city
Oh come on.

It is, maybe not in the center, but the suburbs are cozy and well maintained, I always pay more attention to suburbs, because they show how average people live.

Here a Ukrainian guy compares Gdańsk and Kaliningrad and Kaliningrad looks ok:

youtube.com/watch?v=b1skwxLMIuc

>Without Poland this place is sucks.

Without Ukraine*. Ukraine is what you miss.

It wasn't annexation, it was the choice of crimean people,and there are 2 words for Russian in our language:russkiy(ethnical) and rossijskiy(governmental, about all nations in country).1st one is viewed as a nazi thing by government, while the second one is civic nationalism. Integration of Crimea was about civic nationalism.

>Without Ukraine*. Ukraine is what you miss.
About this west bandera nazis, yeah sure. After years them in gulag. GULAG for hohols is the only true answer.

>1st one is viewed as a nazi thing by government

top kek, you're retarded

>rossijskiy(governmental, about all nations in country)
>the second one is civic nationalism. Integration of Crimea was about civic nationalism.
how the fuck was it about some civic nationalism if crimea was not part of russia and they were not "rossiyane" according to you?

the real reason described here

They are ATTRACTIVE BY THEMSELVES first and foremost. Lwów is beautiful. Wrocław is nice. Vilnius, despite what you claim, has a pretty city center as well. Łódź fucking isn't. It's a goddamn eyesore. Many, many, many more Poles go to Greece, Egypt, Croatia or Turkey than they do to Ukraine and Lithuania. It's the overall appeal that matters the most and shitholes simply lose compared to world renowned places like Prague.

Except he is right. Ethnic russian nationalism is frowned upon.

Łódź is more attractive from a tourist point of view than Vilnius.

Only Limonov-tier "Russian nationalism".

pan Limonow miał ukraińskie nazwisko, ale potem go się zmienił

Maybe if you're a masochist.

itt: cyka blyat orgie

I'm from Olsztyn. I've been there and it's shit.

There is another one BIG figure in Russian nationalism

>pan

How does it sound to Russian when you're called "pan"?

we use it too, but only in a trolling sense yet.

in Russian it would be gospodin

How should it sound? We use it jokingly sometimes.

>implying Olsztyn is not shit

Also, I'm sure you've been to the centre, while the suburbs are a different story.

It's quite nice actually.

But you wouldn't know that seeing you travel using google maps you fucking mong.

Why not? Google shows everything, all streets, so I can compare it to other cities immediately.

>mfw we slaughtered 70% of Poland's population and got away with it because no one knows about it

This is pointless, if you don't understand why google street travel is a fucking joke than I'm wasting my time with you. It's not even funny.

Because you paid compensations. It's like Jews, who love Germany now.

>if you don't understand why google street travel is a fucking joke

No, I don't understand, explain. Does google hide something? Maybe they make Polish cities look worse than it really is, because of the well-known anti-Polish conspiration wykop talks about?

There's loads of movies, documentaries, books etc about the holocaust. Most countries also teach about it in school, yet there's nothing about the Deluge

>yet there's nothing about the Deluge

imdb.com/title/tt0072021/

It's just sad that you don't get it. I think it comes from your lack of experience like traveling yet despite that you firmly stand your ground pants on head retarded.

Have fun visiting a marina through a google street view.

I've been to most of major Polish cities irl and I didn't see any difference from what I had seen on google maps before (some buildings could be renovated and some streets repaired, as images in google are quite old for Poland, but that's all).

>the Swedish army robbed Poland of her most precious goods - thousands of works of art, books and valuables. Most of these items have never been returned to Poland, and are kept both in private Swedish hands, and in Stockholm museums, such as Swedish Army Museum, and Livrustkammaren.
Inderesding

The funny thing is that if they hadn't been stored in Swedish museums, they would have been most likely destroyed by nazis in WW2.

>I didn't see any difference from what I had seen on google maps
kek

Mede me tink allso

How could I have seen a difference, if google takes fucking photos, you can't make anything up.

>and are kept both in private Swedish hands, and in Stockholm museums, such as Swedish Army Museum
> Swedish Army Museum
That's some next level trolling.

I just can't, ahhahaha. I lost it.

What the fuck are you on about? You literally can see some fucking streets on google view and only the ones that are not closed for car movement. You can't go into a castle, museum, marina, fucking restaurant, go on a cruise, swim or hell knows what else.

Are you so fucking dense? Really, I'm starting to think you're baiting me.

Interesting thread. I don't know about today - I am oldfag - but in past they taught some things on PLC in school, though certainly not as much as deserved given influence that PLC had on Russia history. The main things were:

- Lublin unia and how Poles oppressed Russians
- Grunwald battle and how Smolensk regiments were the strongest and bestest there
- Time of troubles in early 1600s, how Poles installed False Dimitry, ravaged the lands and wanted to install Vladislav
- Very short though sympathetic mention (it was in commie times) of Polish uprisings in 19s century
- WWII - how Armiya Lyudowa helped Soviet Army capture Berlin

Poland is seen here as a completely foreign country with different culture, it staying in Russian empire as an episode if not error so people just don't know much about heritage there.

There is some 'nostalgic' tourism among Russians but it is mainly limited to Baltics (Riga, Jurmala) and other ex-USSR republics. Even in that case people go there so as to see something new but not 'muh heritage'

Finally a good post.

>You can't go into a castle, museum, marina, fucking restaurant, go on a cruise, swim or hell knows what else.

What does it have to do with it, I'm talking about architecture and infrastructure.

Btw, you can visit a lot of museums and castles inside on google maps.

Kurica ne ptica, Polsha ne zagranica.

>Kurica ne ptica, Polsha ne zagranica.
pathetic