DUDE. I LEARNT YOUR LANGUAGE SO NOW I CAN BREAK CAUSALITY. LMAO

DUDE. I LEARNT YOUR LANGUAGE SO NOW I CAN BREAK CAUSALITY. LMAO.

This is what passes as "intellectual" and "cerebral" science fiction nowadays

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Stil better than multidimensional love

Shut the fuck up, you don't get it.

She learned to perceive time non-linearly, nothing else. She can't change the past or future, she can't jump around, nothing. Just perception.

its basically a poor man's Slaughter House 5, but I enjoyed it.

she still breaks causality by "remembering" the future to learn what she said in the present.

You take that back you faggot

No, this is how you market those kind of ideas to the main stream like how 'science' is part of Big Bangs identity even though it possesses no such thing. It's all simulacra. The idea of something precedes it's reality.

FAT OGRE SHIT

Slaughterhouse 5 is a poor man's slaughterhouse 5.

No she didn't break causality. The chinaman general specifically tells her something that she remembers. Imagine if he had told her that phrase a week ago and she remembered it. That's it, you're too stupid to understand such a simple albeit abstract concept.

This just isn't true at all you retard, where did her knowledge of general chang's phone number first come from?

HE SHOWS HER HIS PHONE NUMBER AT THE GALA YOU NINCOMPOOP

i like both the book and the movie

yeah and that breaks causality, because he tells it to her in the future, otherwise she would never have known what to say. this is the future causing its own past, thus breaking causality you fucking idiot.

WHICH IS IN THE FUTURE, THIS BREAKING CAUSALITY YOU IDIOT

it doesn't break causality at all cause the stuff is all done at once.

she would never have been able to have that conversation at the gala if she didn't "remember" what the chinese general told her at said gala. That is breaking causality. Because this event caused itself to happen.

mmm this is sort of true, but it relies on time and causality progressing along a fixed path. The example given in the short story was how electricity 'knows' the path of least resistance around a circuit. So things can literally only happen regardless of if people know they will happen in the future, and even if they endeavor to try to change them. They can't otherwise their future perceptions would not have taken place. Everything is fixed

Only if you view time as linear. Once you get into the right frame of thinking it makes sense.

causality specifically refers to linear time, and time itself is still linear (hence the aliens saying "in 3k year we need the human's help) they just view it otherwise.

I don't understand how that breaks causality. She doesn't do anything to break it, she says "I never knew your number" and then she tells her his number through no prompting of any kind. She didn't pre-arrange that phone call, it all just happened (at once, to her perception).

It's really easier to think of it all as if they're memories, because that's what they are.

Your girlfriend says thanks for remember my mother's birthday. You say hmm? She says yeah, April 7th, you know. And then you know it.

Hannah, it's read the same backward and forward.

The story takes the "destiny is written" kinda approach and I disagree with it philosophically (I mean, how can't you? I'm no muslim terrorist) but it works in the story.

How can you not get it.

Why do so many people struggle with closed causality loops? They work fine, and aren't complicated, so long as the loop remains intact.

She doesn't break causality, she couldn't actually have decided to not have the kid, it's just that she made peace with it

>causality specifically refers to linear time

Which is precisely why it's not appropriate to invoke when discussing this movie.

sure its a causality loop, but it still breaks normal causality


causality is defined as "the relationship between cause and effect." In this case the cause and effect are one in the same (the gala event) thus breaking causality.

Again, time is still linear in this movie, just understanding the language lets you view it differently.

>In this case the cause and effect are one in the same (the gala event) thus breaking causality.

Elaborate

Surely the gala event is the cause of the phonecall, and the phonecall is then the cause of the gala event? I think you'd be right if something was its own cause, but this is just a dual relationship between two seperate events. So long as both things happen, causality is preserved.

Yes it does. There is nothing in this movie to suggest that their language alters the causal flow of time. It ___literally____ lets you see the future, nothing else

Not even >see the future, but remember it. I think there's a difference.

The idea is our current perception of time is limited; we think it's linear, but it's actually not, and the ayyy's language allows us to shift that perception.

okay so one of the effects of calling the Chinese general and telling him his dying wife's last words was that at the Gala the Chinese general goes up to her and tells her those same words and his phone number.


But the cause of her calling the general in the first place, with those dying words, is because of the Gala where the Chinese general tells her those words.


A causes B which causes A which causes B and so on.


Its a perfect loop, but it still breaks normal causality, and can only exist because it exists.

no its not, the aliens even say in 3000 years they will need the human's help, implying time is indeed linear. They can just view time non-linearly.

Did anyone ever consider the Chinese general obtained some of the same powers as Amy Adams? Maybe he studied the language the a large degree as well and started experiencing time differently as well. Perhaps the Chinese general was also experiencing time shift, which would explain why he acted so strangely while showing Amy Adams his phone number and giving her the phrase.

Just a theory I had.

nah, he said he doesn't understand how her brain works

Torrent when?

How do the ayyy lmaoos exit their pill ship thing? Do stairs open up or something?

How long do ayys live for in Arrival? They must have time travel as well as experiencing non linear time unless the ayys live to be 3000+ year old because they wouldn't be able to see past their own lifespan.

Shit, I see

But wouldn't it work this way:

cause: she dials number she remembers
effect: general stop attack

cause: general says the number/phrase
effect: she learns the cause/phrase

It's not a loop, they're different actors/agents/events entirely

but the general would never have told her the number/phrase without her having called her with the number/phrase he told her. There are multiple effects from her actions.

they could just have long ass lives. Also the fact that one of the ayyys dies implies that time is indeed linear.

But No!

The General knew his own number and his own wife's words

right, but he still would never have told HER if she hadn't called him in the past.

and she would never have been at the gala, and the gala wouldnt even have happened, had she not called him in the past.

okay fuck you guys and let me enjoy the feels scifi movie that isn't nolanshit.

And you have a point.

I don't see any problem with breaking casuality, as it is implied throughout the film that timeline is fixed therefore there's no free will in that scenario. At least I'm okay with that explanation.
I do have a question about her non-linear perception of time - does it affects her whole life? Does she remembers losing her daughter before her visit to the ship? Or does it works like a ripple, affecting just some amounts of her life before and after the contact, due to her limited perception of their language?

This film is a wannabe Nolan film. Whoever made it should fucking retire. Also

>WOW I LEARN TO SPEAK HEPTOPOD NOW I CAN SEE THE FUTURE LOL

Fuck this shit shit

nah its a good movie, I enjoy it, it just as a logical flaw that most time travel movies have. I'm not harping on it, just acknowledging it.

What EXACTLY did Amy say to him on the phone?

Keep in mind they only talked for a like a minute and it was incredibly hectic. She explained to him that because of the aliens she could perceive time nonlinearly and she could prove it because she has his number and also knew his wife's dying words that only he should know and some day in the future at a UN meeting he needs to approach her and tell her his number and his wife's dying words?

time travel isn't possible, how you can argue about the validity of this film? kek, seriously. it makes enough sense for the audience to suspend belief, but stop over analysing it.

Doesn't every time travel movie have a plothole or logical flaw?

It's called a concept user

She told him his wifes dying words (who dies in the future) to prove she knew about the future. With this, she then tells him the aliens aren't harmful and so China backs down. I don't know what the UN gala scene is about

Thanks for contributing literlaly nothing fuckwit

It was something about war only making widows or some such. I don't have the exact quote

>who dies in the future

You idiot

Why, everything other than her proving she could see the future is irrelevant, so why do you care?

Multidimensional love makes total sense.
When making their plans the future 5th dimensional beings used love as the primary motivator for McConaughey and Hathaway's characters. Out of all things in the universe they chose love because it's the strongest driving force behind a human's actions. That's why they chose McConaughey and Murph, and the bookcase and watch.
They used love to manipulate time, it is a force in this universe.

That's because time IS linear you faggot

what this movie presupposes is maybe its not

needlessly contrarian user.

I actually liked this movie, shame it was a bit sappy - that ending felt like something out of a Terrence Malick movie, cringed.

>wannabe nolan
nolan fucking wishes.

Villeneuve's films are every bit as shit as Nolan's. He hasn't made anything as bad as TDKR yet but he'll get there.

Villeneuve doesn't try to shoehorn retarded social messages or use rapid editing in place of plot

Bullshit. Survival is the greatest driving force for humans. Thirst, hunger, and cold are all greater motivators than love.

He could have told her during a different outcome in the future.
I think that's what the movie should have done.
Like he told her an emotional story in an alternate future of his wife dying, rather than it being from the past over the phone.

> Survival is the greatest driving force for humans. Thirst, hunger, and cold are all greater motivators than love.

But that wasn't what the fifth dimensional beings needed. They needed someone who would willingly fire themselves into a black hole because they love their daughter enough to sacrifice themselves - which is why Cooper makes it in the end. No one thought love is a real force.

Love is a tool of survival. You'd protect what you love.

Got a link with audio?

Abbott is death process

...

Why would the general's first response to what Louise told him be "lol she must be able to see the future" instead of "hey maybe this agent working for the US government somehow bugged me or otherwise found some personal information about me"?

Was it the bomb? I wasn't entirely sure of that.

>Chiang's story: it's likely that Louise doesn't actually see the future but her exposure to the heptapod way of thinking has made her change how she views her memories non-linearly, remembering them simultaneously after she sees her daughter's dead body
>movie: LOIS U CAN LITERALLY SEE FUTURE PROCESS, ISN'T THIS A COOL "WEAPON"? CHING CHONG CHINAMAN WAIFU
What else did you expect from the screenwriter of Final Destination 5?

I've been a loyal Amex Green card holder since 2009 and this is the first time I've considered using Amex's chargeback request for a full recourse.

I don't get it
So, everything she saw in her flashbacks was actually in the future?
What was the point

it's clever at worst. stop getting so fucking autistic about it

Incendies shits on EVERYTHING Nolan every tried.

perfect reaction image

just wanted to appreciate you

The film portrayed the novella very well, you turbo pleb.

Left unclear.
Could have been the space aids that they needed help with.

youtube.com/watch?v=G8U21reHexg

This made the movie such shit. I came in hoping to get a dose of hard science first contact.
Instead I got stupid mind travel shit.

It tacked on to a slow thoughtful story a typical Hollywood subplot about geopolitical tensions that unambiguously made a single interpretation valid all so that the movie could have a thrilling climax, you explosion loving teenager.

How was she able to control the smoke and make writing?

I never dropped a youtube clip so fucking fast.

Carefully controlled farts

He's been shilling it all week.

aww yeah

Pretty sure it was the bomb since Costello left 10 seconds earlier so both knew that there would be an explosion and that Abbott would die to it.

She literally has her non-linear memory process since the first lines of the movie you fucking AHDH monkey.

And then they literally had her seeing the future and the climax of the whole movie resting on that concept instead of leaving it open to interpretation much like how one of Chinag's main message in the short story is that there is more than one way of looking at things, like Snell's Law vs. Fermat's principle, you lover of brick to the face subtlety.

There are schools of thought in sociology that determine that language shapes our very thought patterns and perception of the world.

The movie's intellectual thesis is (likely) that the language doesn't cause her to violate causality - it's that causality is just always violated. The language only begins to rewire her brain in such a way as to perceive it.

All in all it's not the worst scifi concept in recent history.

>couldn't understand an incredibly easy to follow film

>it's that causality is just always violated.

back the fuck off?!?!?!
*teleports behind you*

[spoler]She can read their language

Because she can see through time

Because knowing their language helps her see through time.

Because in the future she can read their language.

And she can read their language in the past because she can see through time.

And she can see into the future where she knows their language.

But at no point does she actually learn their language. [/spioler]

Our understanding of science and the very foundations of the laws of physics are always changing.

If time, itself, is non linear and inherently paradoxial, the language would just be shaping our perception to accept that - not so much being the thing that allows you to see into the future. Human language, essentially, is limiting our ability to experience the universe.

then who was language????

I agree, let's all communicate in free word order now.
A guy big you're!

Really made me think

>I agree, let's all communicate in free word order now.
>A guy big you're!

A horrible comparison ;^)

You for