I had a friend from Italy come over to my place for the weekend and fuck are the memes real.
The friend lives in Turin and he liked the place but every sentence about Italy was how they got a different mentality in the north and how awful Rome and everything south of it is.
I were also explained that in the 60ties 3-4 millions southern Italians came north and they had to build something like commie blocks for them is it true?
polacks are slavic subhumans
I am a greek
Go away, this is a thread for Europeans.
I had an Italian friend from Veneto explaining to me that Naples is not Italy, and nothing works there.
Exactly, mine was saying all the time that nothing works in central and southern Italy and they're just different people and northern Italians are more connected to France, Austria or Germany than them.
And I mean this person wasn't a kid, it was an adult talking in Sup Forums memes.
Meme people have meme friends.
My friend is a university lecturer like me.
yes to Italians anything south of Bologna is trash and south of Rome is not human
That is even more sad.
What if, in this case, reality and Sup Forums memes entwine?
Then? What's wrong?
North Vs South has always existed in italy since 1861 has not been invented by Sup Forums.
Yeah but the level of it, how it's highlighted by the people, is incredible.
>Yeah but the level of it, how it's highlighted by the people, is incredible.
it's just north italians having an inferiority complex really. South italians don't really care about these things because we actually have a life
>Exactly, mine was saying all the time that nothing works in central and southern Italy and they're just different people and northern Italians are more connected to France, Austria or Germany than them.
Yes, north italians are actually this obnoxious in real life, no surprise there. The problem is, it's not really true. There are shitty and good people everywhere in the peninsula, and "northern culture" is a meme, they are just like the rest of italians
If the south is so great then why does it have SHIT DEVELOPMENT in EU4 while the north is full of 20+ (Milan starts at 30! Base development) while the south has like 10 on average?
In the south they cry.
We are poor because the north and Garibaldi.
I see. I've been to Italy but only to the north + Rome so I just disagreed when heard the opinion about Rome.
Well, I can see my comments were unproductive, even if I'm right. And if I'm not, they were just mean. Sorry for that. Have a nice day.
>We are poor because the north and Garibaldi.
the south's industry after the unification was destroyed because the economic literature at the time ignored what an optimal currency area is, and acted in the same retarded way that the Euro currency works. It doesn't help that northerners have a superiority complex and therefore never accepted actual wealth transfers to fill the gap like it happened with east germany after 1990 (cassa del mezzogiorno doesn't count, because north companies got all the contracts and simply pretended to open up activities, it was pure theft).
Now this is historical truth, and it's not complaining to just point it out. Apart from pointing out the hipocrisy of "padani" and "lega nord" even daring to say that somehow they get the short hand of the stick, which is ridiculous, south italians don't really ponder too much about these things and we prefer to look at the future, to improve Italy together, and not in a campanilistic way anymore.
So please refrain from your shitty memes about "muh gold", thank you.
>I see. I've been to Italy but only to the north + Rome so I just disagreed when heard the opinion about Rome.
You did well to disagree. Luckily not all north italians are like this, but the Lega Nord has done a lot of damage in this regard unfortunately. I have personally been told by a north italian that my italian is inferior because I have a southern accent (despite everything else being the same). When I pointed out to him that I studied linguistics so I know what I am talking about, he just reiterated and kept saying "we are not the same, we are not the same". Some of these people are seriously fucked in the head I think
>we are not the same
Exactly this seemed to be the mantra I heard.
I also heard a lot about work ethics.
I want Sup Forumsernational friends too ;_;
How do i get them?
Through work trips, international conferences and European cooperation between universities.
Jesus, the south really is poor compared to the north.
It's not strange though, the North has all the centers of progress like Florence, Milan, Venice ect. On top of that, they have a history of innovation and advancements.
But at least you got the Mafia down there.
>Exactly this seemed to be the mantra I heard.
that's because it's easy for them to find some sort of strawman to attack instead of dealing with their own shortcomings and weaknesses. You'll notice how everytime something bad is said on Sup Forums about Italy, suddenly a wave of comments reply "it's just the terroni", or everytime between two italians an argument is lost, the losing side just replies "t.errone" as if being from the south automatically makes you wrong even though you are right.
>I also heard a lot about work ethics.
The "protestant work ethics" is a shitty meme in itself, but the fact that north italians would like to put it on themselves despite not even being protestants is even more ridiculous. Some of them could say "well we wuz french n shiet", but it's not like the french are famous for their amazing work ethics, all the opposite.
I understand that most people in the world are morons so they don't understand how the world actually work, and they get all these ideas that they have a divine right to wealth because they were born 100km more north, but it's still not an excuse to go around poisoning everyone with their delusions.
>It's not strange though, the North has all the centers of progress
south italy had a plenty of centers of progress, you shouldn't look at just history in the 1900s
I'm not.
Florence, Milan, Genoa, Venice are some of the most imporant cities Europe has ever had. All of them are on par with London on Paris when it comes to relevance and influence on the stage of European history.
The south had Naples, which is now a Mafia-infested garbage dump.
>in the 60ties 3-4 millions southern Italians came north and they had to build something like commie blocks for them is it true?
Yes, it was pretty much the same thing as the muslim invasion in the last 15 years, southern italians created their ghetto in northern cities and it took decades to bring the crime level to a somewhat acceptable level in those neighborhoods
>All of them are on par with London on Paris when it comes to relevance and influence on the stage of European history.
They were only relevant for a very short amount of time and then survived on muh history alone
>The south had Naples, which is now a Mafia-infested garbage dump.
wrong
I see, thanks for the nice explanations. Posters like this make it worth to come to Sup Forums.
>Survived on muh history alone
Seems like they also survived on the industry and prosperity they produced.
And no, they weren't relevant for just a short while, Venice especially was relevant for hundreds of years.
Florence and Tuscany in general are the best places of Italy for my opinion.
North is the economic center of Italy. Southern are like the italian sterotypes in the world: brown skin,noisy etc...
>Seems like they also survived on the industry and prosperity they produced.
they were poor as fuck for many centuries, the austrians literally starved venetians to death lmao. Only after the "italian miracle" after WW2 do they get good. Florence isn't even an "industrial powerhouse" today either. You clearly don't know shit about italian history so stop wasting my time
>muh history
Northern Italy is the most developed and productive area of the country, with one of the highest GDPs per capita in Europe. It was the first part of Italy to become industrialised in the last half of the 19th century; the so-called industrial triangle was formed by the manufacturing centres of Milan and Turin, as well as the seaport of Genoa. Since then, the industrial core of the area has shifted eastward; the current industrial triangle consists of Lombardy, Veneto, and Emilia-Romagna. A similar shift happened for GDP per capita, and the eastern regions (including Lombardy) have since become wealthier than Piedmont and Liguria. With a 2008 nominal GDP estimated at €772,676 million, Northern Italy accounts for 54.8% of the Italian economy, despite having just 45.8% of the population.[2]
Given that they're also the center for the renaissance and many other innovations it's clear which part of Italy is superior
I am not going to go on a debate with someone that copy-pastes the first lines of Wikipedia regarding north italy and thinks this gives him any depth and knowledge into the topic.
>Given that they're also the center for the renaissance and many other innovations it's clear which part of Italy is superior
again, you clearly know nothing about italian history
None of that even comes close to my life
>only after ww2 did they get good
What the fuck am I reading?
Are you really this IGNORANT?
>Florence originated as a Roman city, and later, after a long period as a flourishing trading and banking medieval commune, it was the birthplace of the Italian Renaissance. According to the Encyclopædia Britannica, it was politically, economically, and culturally one of the most important cities in Europe and the world from the 14th to 16th centuries.
That's three hundred years of relevance right there you fucking hapless cunt.
>The usual character who tries to defend the south at all costs but fails.
In the south are the first to do nothing to improve the situation but just complain,
You have the written demonstration.
>I am not going to argue with someone who uses facts and common knowledge instead of my own bias butthurt assumptions.
You're fucking scum lmao.
Tuscanians are browner than south italians though, at least that is what I experienced when living there for several years.
> from the 14th to 16th centuries.
there, exactly what I said. You can stop now.
ok user, whatever makes you feel good about your NEETdom
This.
Maybe I should do something about it...
>Short time of relevance
>Comes up with a movement that changed Europe forever, propelling us ahead of the rest of the world
>300 years of being one of the most imporant cities in the world.
Please, just stop.
>The language spoken in the city during the 14th century was, and still is, accepted as the Italian language. Almost all the writers and poets in Italian literature of the golden age are in some way connected with Florence, leading ultimately to the adoption of the Florentine dialect, above all the local dialects, as a literary language of choice.
Lmao, the south.
Starting from the late Middle Ages, Florentine money—in the form of the gold florin—financed the development of industry all over Europe, from Britain to Bruges, to Lyon and Hungary. Florentine bankers financed the English kings during the Hundred Years War. They similarly financed the papacy, including the construction of their provisional capital of Avignon and, after their return to Rome, the reconstruction and Renaissance embellishment of Rome.
Fuck me man. You must be the most delusional person in the entire world.
Well my friend was excited with all the constructions going on here and telling me how everything around Turin or Milan is factories and everyone is working.
Overall Poland left a good impression but I think that as a guest we were praised a bit too much up to saying that my neighbourhood looks like germany.
It is not his fault is the fault of the bad school education in the south.
>300 years
more like 200, and that's not a long time at all. Furthermore Florence, although created good art, was never an industrial powerhouse and its propsperity was based on importing gold from a newly found big mine in Africa. Once the mine ran out, they collapsed. Renaissance wasn't limited to Florence but to all of Italy.
Again, I have no interest in discussing with ignorant morons. I bet you're a north italian that migrated to Sweden to work as a waiter or something, that's what your butthurt is telling me.
The tuscanians were heavily influenced and borrowed massively from the sicilian school that predates them. That said, the italian that was adopted by the italian state is a lot different than the tuscanian dialect of the renaissance, and in fact in history it went through a lot of transformations brining forward a sort of lingua franca that had a bit of every dialect in the peninsula, and that therefore was adopted (and further standardized) by the central state after unification. It's easy to prove this by reading Dante's commedia and looking at how different it is, and how often words have a completely different meaning form standard italian.
That's because the De'Medici were bankers, it has nothing to do with Florence being prosperous. As I have explained they just had a good contact to get gold from Africa, that's literally all they did. It's not a big accomplishment and it doesn't take an ubermensch to do it. Furthermore artists in Florence came from all over italy and were not just natives.
Most teachers in north italy are from south italy, so I guess the education you got is also bad
Honestly, what the fuck is he smoking?
Even during Swedish history lessons we learn about the importance of the north Italian city states and the sheer amount of progress and human achievement they produced.
It must be the most BITTER kind of jealousy that allows someone to be this blind in the face of reality.
>It must be the most BITTER kind of jealousy that allows someone to be this blind in the face of reality.
I am not bitter at all, the city states were italian and I am also italian, so their accomplishments are also mine. I have no reason to be butthurt.
HAHAHA.
>Wasn't limited to Florence.
No it wasn't. It came out of Florence originally, and then the other great cities in the north became patrons as well.
The only relevant place in the south, was as previously states Naples which had renissance princes of their own.
But once again.
> it was politically, economically, and culturally one of the most important cities in Europe and the world from the 14th to 16th centuries.
300 years
>The language spoken in the city during the 14th century was, and still is, accepted as the Italian language. Almost all the writers and poets in Italian literature of the golden age are in some way connected with Florence, leading ultimately to the adoption of the Florentine dialect, above all the local dialects, as a literary language of choice.
>financed the development of industry all over Europe, from Britain to Bruges, to Lyon and Hungary.
And this is just FLORENCE. We could go on with Milan, Pisa, Venice, Genoa as well if you'd like.
Of course you do. Because they are a clear indication that the north was, and is still far superior to the south, because that's where they were all located (and still are).
And today, they also make up for the most prosperous parts if Italy.
South and North Koreans are both koreans, but that doesn't mean the north gets to take credit for the economic wonder that is the south.
When you talk to one of the south you must always remember general rules:
-The South is the most beautiful place in Italy and the world.
- Have the best food
- Have the nicest people
- If they are poor it is not their fault but the North / State / Mafia
- The south and culturally superior to the north
- With the Bourbons and without the unification of Italy would be the most important and rich country in the world
If you disregard these facts go crazy and then get angry better not contradict them.
>Naples isn't a mafia-infested swamp
Okay bruv
Are there any redeeming qualities to the south at all?
>The only relevant place in the south, was as previously states Naples which had renissance princes of their own.
it wasn't the only relevant place at all
>300 years
200
>>The language spoken in the city during the 14th century was, and still is, accepted as the Italian language. Almost all the writers and poets in Italian literature of the golden age are in some way connected with Florence, leading ultimately to the adoption of the Florentine dialect, above all the local dialects, as a literary language of choice.
You are copy-pasting wikipedia to try an win an argument against someone who studied linguistics and the linguistic history of the italian language. This is the kind of arrogance of people who cannot accept that someone they deem automatically inferior for his geographical origins knows more about an argument than they do.
Modern Italian, although it takes heavily from the literary tuscanian of the 1300s (which takes heavily from the sicilian school), is different from it in many ways, and is a standardization that takes fully from all dialects of the peninsula to try and create a lingua franca with common words from north to south. I bet you dodn't even know who Alessandro Manzoni and Pietro Bembo are. S M H. But then again you probably know because you're a butthurt northerner who migrated to sweden, that's the only way one can explain your butthurt and chimping out.
>Of course you do. Because they are a clear indication that the north was, and is still far superior to the south, because that's where they were all located (and still are).
ahahah superior to what? Italy is one, it is not divided into an arbitrary north and south
>And today, they also make up for the most prosperous parts if Italy.
they have a bigger industrial output, true, but this has nothing to do with the individual merits of north italians, it has to do with macroeconomics and policy choices of the central government throughout our history
>South and North Koreans are both koreans, but that doesn't mean the north gets to take credit for the economic wonder that is the south.
south koreans and north koreans are from different countries, south italians and north italians are part of the same country so their accomplishments are shared. Does not take a genius to get this, ambrogino-san
>strawman: the post
ahahah
>but this has nothing to do with the individual merits of north italians
Actually it does. It has to do with the legacy and traditions of progress and industry.
>, it is not divided into an arbitrary north and south
Clearly there is a difference in culture when the north is much less-mafia infested and much more productive/wealthy.
>200
300, and that's just Florence.
>it wasn't the only relevant place at all
It was
>someone who studied
Because you're the most bias shitstain I've ever had the displeasure to talk to. There isn't a concpiracy on wikipedia to make the north out to be better than the south. To make the achivements of the north overshadow those of the south.
It's just the way it is. And judging from just how delusional you are, especially after comments like
>only relevant for a very short amount of time
After they literally shaped Europe into what it into what it is today, laying the groundwork for industry and prosperity that until the rise of North America was unrivaled anywhere else in the world.
You believe you're some sort of intellectual, but you're just Italy's version of Sarah Palin, believe Alaska is as relevant as Texas all you like, and be smug about it to, the rest of us will continue to live in reality instead.
>Different countries
Arbitrary borders, they're still the same people aren't they?
Both sides are Korean, one is much different from the other.
And the Italian city-states weren't a part of some Italian Kingdom when they were at their greatest, they were independent city states or duchies. So if you as a south Italian can take credit for that, then a north Korean can take credit for what south Koreans are doing.
>Actually it does. It has to do with the legacy and traditions of progress and industry.
wrong
>Clearly there is a difference in culture when the north is much less-mafia infested and much more productive/wealthy.
mafia has nothing to do with culture, culture is very similar in all of italy
>300, and that's just Florence.
200, and the Renaissance isn't just Florence
>Because you're the most bias shitstain I've ever had the displeasure to talk to. There isn't a concpiracy on wikipedia to make the north out to be better than the south.
I have already explained you why you are wrong and why that wikipedia article is just giving an overview for people who don't want to dwelve deep into the argument. You are free to disprove my arguments without copy-pasting the same debunked snippet over and over again.
You can't say I am a biased shitstain without proving it first, cupcake ;)
>To make the achivements of the north overshadow those of the south.
Nothing overshadows anything. North and South achievements are shared because we are the same country and the same people
>After they literally shaped Europe into what it into what it is today
Europe was shaped for millennia, and mostly by romans. The renaissance contributed, but it was just a contribution, not the main agent.
>You believe you're some sort of intellectual, but you're just Italy's version of Sarah Palin, believe Alaska is as relevant as Texas all you like, and be smug about it to, the rest of us will continue to live in reality instead.
only mindless insults by a mindless person, no need for me to reply to the chimping out of a person without arguments
>culture is very similar in all of italy
That's not just wrong, it's straight up offensive, don't ever compare our culture with yours
>Arbitrary borders, they're still the same people aren't they?
No they are not the same people anymore, theirs are not arbitrary borders. They probably would be if north korea wasn't a totalitarian state that has cut them out of the whole world. An extreme case that is in no way representative of the relationship between north and south italy, or its history.
>Both sides are Korean, one is much different from the other.
North and south italy were never divided in the way north and south korea are. It's a completely different scenario.
>And the Italian city-states weren't a part of some Italian Kingdom when they were at their greatest, they were independent city states or duchies. So if you as a south Italian can take credit for that, then a north Korean can take credit for what south Koreans are doing.
Italian culture and identity predates the political union by a long long time, which is why the italian kingdom was made in the first place. Since you like to fill your mouth with muh Florence, Dante already believed in the italian identity and the political union of Italy ;)
North koreans can take credit for south korean achievements until before they split, because until that point they were the same people.
North and south italians always were the same peopel, so there isn't any achievement by them that isn't shared. For example nobody in Italy claims that north italians shouldn't be proud of "magna graecia", because that was part of Italy, or proud of the roman empire, which started in Rome and then took over north italy.
>That's not just wrong, it's straight up offensive, don't ever compare our culture with yours
sorry to burst your bubble, but we are the same culture, whether you like it or not
>wrong
wrong
>Mafia has nothing to do with culture
Haha, I can't believe you actually believe this. It just has to be something you say, even though deep down you know it's wrong.
>200, and the Renaissance isn't just Florence
300 and its where it started. And the northern city states spread it all over Europe.
Naples was the only relevant city in the south.
>I have already explained you why you are wrong and why that wikipedia article is just giving an overview for people who don't want to dwelve deep into the argument. You are free to disprove my arguments without copy-pasting the same debunked snippet over and over again.
You can't say I am a biased shitstain without proving it first, cupcake ;)
Top kek, I am sure you know better. Because who wouldn't trust some random south Italian bitch with a huge chip on his shoulder over wikipedia - and by extension encyclopedia britannica.
>Nothing overshadows anything. North and South achievements are shared because we are the same country and the same people
You weren't at the time.
SO if you can take credit for it then North Koreans can take credit for the south, because North and south Korea are as much the same country as Florence was the same country as Naples or sicily.
> The renaissance contributed, but it was just a contribution, not the main agent.
Wrong. The renaissance was probably the most imporant thing to ever happen to Europe.
Rome didn't reach everywhere, the renaissance did. And it turned a poor continent stuck in the dark ages to the most imporant and prosperous continent on the planet.
>only mindless insults by a mindless person, no need for me to reply to the chimping out of a person without arguments
You're actually the one without any real arguments. Because the only thing you have to back it up is ''I HAVE STUDIED'' or ''ACCORDING TO ME'' which means literally nothing.
Because you're just one person who's incredibly misguided and ignorant - and also wrong about everything.
>Italian culture and identity predates the political union by a long long time
As korean culture predates the split
>chievement by them that isn't shared.
Actually it is. Because you never took to the advancements in the south, which is why you were poorer than the north back then, and you're poorer now.
Your culture is also more accepting of mafia-style organisations. You're like the Serbs or Russians in that way, while it couldn't spread in the north in the same way at all.
>wasn't a totalitarian state
And there were republics in the north, as different as night and day to the duchies and kingdoms to the south.
This map is like the perfect representation of the differences in culture between north and south.
>wrong
wrong
>Haha, I can't believe you actually believe this. It just has to be something you say, even though deep down you know it's wrong.
I see that you ran out of argument, tough luck pal
>300 and its where it started. And the northern city states spread it all over Europe.
ahahah what the fuck do you think the Renaissance is, butter? lmao
The Renaissance is the result of the political culture in Italy, and happened in all the peninsula and not just tuscany or north italy.
>Naples was the only relevant city in the south.
nope
>Top kek, I am sure you know better. Because who wouldn't trust some random south Italian bitch with a huge chip on his shoulder over wikipedia - and by extension encyclopedia britannica.
I am sure wikipedia doesn't say how bad immigration in Sweden is, that doesn't mean it's not true. Wikipedia is not supposed to give you insightful depth into specialistic topics like the linguistic history of the italian language (which I studied). So if you don't like the opinion of an educated person it's your own problem, but don't compare your ignorance with my knowledge because that's just pathetic, thank you
>You weren't at the time.
As I have told you already, we always were the same people, since Rome at least
>North and south Korea are as much the same country as Florence was the same country as Naples or sicily.
Wrong. Even the attempt to make such an argument is ludicrous and not worth consideration
>Wrong. The renaissance was probably the most imporant thing to ever happen to Europe.
says who?
>You're actually the one without any real arguments
I have only given you hard-cold facts, whereas you just insult me and throw around "but north italian are muh masterrace". The more I speak to you, the more obvious it is you are a butthurt expat.
>Because you're just one person who's incredibly misguided and ignorant - and also wrong about everything.
t.miguided and ignorant person wrong about everything
>As korean culture predates the split
but now that korean culture doesn't exist anymore, since communism destroys culture in general. So until the split they were the same person.
Again discussing this is pointless, as I have said they are completely different situations
>Actually it is. Because you never took to the advancements in the south, which is why you were poorer than the north back then, and you're poorer now.
Poorer back then? When exactly? Plenty of times when south italy has been richer than north italy. Before unification is one example. France was literally heavily indebted to south italy and we could have literally bought up France, if the unification didn't happen making those debts unclaimable of course. Just one example ;)
>And there were republics in the north, as different as night and day to the duchies and kingdoms to the south.
You just proved you know nothing about the political history of the south lmao, swedish education everyone
>this map is like the perfect representation of the differences in culture between north and south.
They are a different in geo-political and economical status inside the country, which isn't culture at all although it can influence in some small things. In the same circumstances, north italians pay the pizzo even more than south italians.
>ran out of argument
Please, you're the one who started with the ''wrong'' bit. There are cultures where mafia-style organisations are much more accepted than others. We see this with the serbs, South Italians, Russians ect. Not every poor country develops a mafia, only some - and that's where south Italy fits in.
>The Renaissance is the result of the political culture in Italy, and happened in all the peninsula and not just tuscany or north italy.
Wrong. It started in Florence and the other north Italian states became patrons as well. They argued for it and spread it all over Europe. It became fashionable, and different kings across the continent were influenced by the north Italian ideas.
>Wikipedia is not supposed to give you insightful depth into specialistic topics like the linguistic history of the italian language (which I studied). So if you don't like the opinion of an educated person it's your own problem, but don't compare your ignorance with my knowledge because that's just pathetic, thank you
You don't know shit. You have a degree in linguistics from some rinky-dink south Italian university. It hardly makes you qualified for anything but linguistics - sadly.
You're not insightful, and you have a shallow concept of the history of your own country, and the reason why progress is made in one place, while crime in ignorance is spawned in another.
Swedish immigration is a loaded subject, the history of Florence isn't. Only sad little men like you can't accept reality even when it's written in stone in front of you.
>Always the same people
Then it's very strange how one part of your country become the center for modern Europe and the other the example to crimminals all over the world how to extort money.
>Wrong.
ran out of arguments again I see.
>I have only given you hard-cold facts
You have given me your opinions, which has all been shitty so far.
>t.miguided and ignorant person wrong about everything
Takes one to know one
>Its different because I say so!
Nope, wrong.
>Poorer back then? When exactly? Plenty of times when south italy has been richer than north italy. Before unification is one example. France was literally heavily indebted to south italy and we could have literally bought up France, if the unification didn't happen making those debts unclaimable of course. Just one example ;)
During the time when the Italian states of the north pushed Europe into modernity, and today.
>ou just proved you know nothing about the political history of the south lmao, swedish education everyone
You've already proven that south Italian education isn't up to snuff, sorry I'm not going to take critisism from someone who can't see further than his own nose.
>They are a different in geo-political and economical status inside the country, which isn't culture at all although it can influence in some small things. In the same circumstances, north italians pay the pizzo even more than south italians.
Actually has a lot to do with it. Which is why the north was a center of progress and industry while the south was just as backwards as anywhere else in Europe.
>Please, you're the one who started with the ''wrong'' bit. There are cultures where mafia-style organisations are much more accepted than others. We see this with the serbs, South Italians, Russians ect. Not every poor country develops a mafia, only some - and that's where south Italy fits in.
because you said something obviously wrong and already debunked in my previous posts, there was no need to repeat myself. All those countries you listed are poor so your cognitive dissonance is showing. As I have said, in the same circumstances north italians pay the pizzo even more than south italians, who by this point have developer antibodies against this kind of thing. There's plenty of towns in north italy where this happens, but north italians won't tell you this on Sup Forums.
>Wrong. It started in Florence and the other north Italian states became patrons as well. They argued for it and spread it all over Europe. It became fashionable, and different kings across the continent were influenced by the north Italian ideas.
The biggest patron, even more than Florence, was the Church in Rome, which is also why it spread to the rest of Europe, so you clearly know nothing about what you are talking about. Btw Turscany isn't part of north italy.
>You don't know shit. You have a degree in linguistics from some rinky-dink south Italian university. It hardly makes you qualified for anything but linguistics - sadly.
You're not insightful, and you have a shallow concept of the history of your own country, and the reason why progress is made in one place, while crime in ignorance is spawned in another.
Swedish immigration is a loaded subject, the history of Florence isn't. Only sad little men like you can't accept reality even when it's written in stone in front of you.
Again more insults without actual arguments. *Yawn*
Your post is literally "let me tell you about your country". I guess swedes are just as bad as americans now.
>Then it's very strange how one part of your country become the center for modern Europe and the other the example to crimminals all over the world how to extort money.
Tuscany isn't the center for modern europe lmao. The 14th century isn't even "modern europe" by any measure or standard.
>and the other the example to crimminals all over the world how to extort money.
nice meme. It is true the mafia is the most famous criminal organization, but considering that's also a business, you should applaud them for beating the international competition instead of complaining ;)
>You have given me your opinions, which has all been shitty so far.
I have given you facts that you can find out about if you study the topic instead of copy-pasting the first lines of the first wikipedia article you find when typing "north italy" on Google.
They are not my opinions at all.
>Takes one to know one
you started calling me like that, so I just pointed out your projection. You clearly don't know what you are talking about, so please stop humiliating yourself
>Nope, wrong.
I have already explained why it's different user, it's not just "because I say so". Nice try though.
>During the time when the Italian states of the north pushed Europe into modernity, and today.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
ok now you just confirmed me your a northcuck. If North Italy is so amazing, why did you have to migrate to Cuckden, of all places? ;)
>You've already proven that south Italian education isn't up to snuff, sorry I'm not going to take critisism from someone who can't see further than his own nose.
I know about the history of my country and the linguistics of my language better than you. The fact that from the bottom of your ignorance you try to claim otherwise just shows how delusional you are. Honestly, everything you say is embarassing and cringy, it makes me feel ashamed for you
>Actually has a lot to do with it. Which is why the north was a center of progress and industry while the south was just as backwards as anywhere else in Europe.
North and south Italy are the same country user, they are both either one or the other, whether you like it or not
>based svenskabro btfoing mad southerner
southerners are mad because they know everything the northeners say about them is usually true