Are Rich and Jay right...

Are Rich and Jay right? Is Star Wars really a limited universe that's impossible to create new things without the imagery/nostalgia of the OT? Pretty much makes this a dead franchise and I have no interest in seeing any future Star Wars flicks.

This is why the old expanded universe and now R1 work better than shit like the prequels. You can get plenty of good war stories with nice consistent conditions out of Star Wars as a setting, trying to replicate the schmalzy hero's journey stuff from the originals every time just wastes a nice flavourful set of rules like 40k or something.

KotOR proves that new, non retarded things can be made in that universe. The trouble is that after the shitfest of the old EU, Disney are determined to play things safe and keep as much consistency as possible.

>war movie
>Star Wars
Yeah nah, if I want to see a war movie this year I'll go see Hacksaw Ridge. I don't want that shit in my star wars movie.

Disney still has the opportunity to do new and creative things with the episodic core films(Episode VIII, Episode IX, etc.). They probably won't take advantage of those opportunities though because nostalgia is safer.

Kennedy is talking about ending the core films at Episode IX though and continuing the series with nothing but spin-off films like Rogue One. Once they do that, they will lose any opportunity they had to do new, creative things with the franchise.

The prequels may have not killed Star Wars, but Disney and Kathleen Kennedy will.

No universe is limited when you tell good stories with good characters. Two things Rogue one lacks.

Yeah I can totally see why it's not for some people. Having grown up loving the Thrawn books and the old X Wing games and stuff it feels made for me, other people are more into the high adventure side of it I guess.

Most Star Wars fans didn't even understand the concept of the force. They think it's like magic from Harry Potter, where you're either born with it, or without it. How many times have you seen someone say 'X person '''has''' the force'. Or 'can he/she use force lightning/ force push'? As if the force is a set of fucking spells from Hogwarts. Let's just be honest here, most star wars fans are dumb because most people are dumb.

The answer is yes, Rogue One is fantastic evidence that what Star Wars fans cared about all along WAS the spaceships and the lightsabers. They claimed that the reason the prequels sucked is because Star Wars is really about the characters and the heart, not the furniture, but where's that fucking argument now? This movie comes out, and all anyone can talk about are the things from the previous movies that made an appearance; Darth Vader lightsaber scene, Leia and Tarkin, X-Wings and TIE fighters. Not seeing a whole lot of Jyn Erso or Saw Gerrera discussions. Star Wars is just a list of assets at this point

it'll be rebooted in like 3042 don't worry

I'm not familiar with KOTOR. Can you summarize what makes it such a fresh approach to the SW universe?

Should have made a Force Unleashed movie instead of R1.

>movie set literally moments before the OT
>mad that there are things from the OT in it
Is RLM doing so badly they need to go the Doug route of being contrarian to gain views?

They're not right about anything, and this latest HITB proves it, they have really shitty taste. I mean, The Farts Awaken better than Rogue One? Give me a fucking break.

>R1 needed more quips like the Marvel movies which are all great
>it was too dark
>it wasn't FUN
>Rey was not a mary sue and charismatic as hell
>the ending scene of R1 was bad


Why do we shill this shit again?

>more edgy wizards flying around determining everything that happens in the universe while they level up

nah fuck that I want more war and frowning and arguments. I can't believe it actually turned out how I wanted, thank fuck for rewrites

FUARK YASSS dude movie was sick as hell. Love it desu fampaitchi.

>dat action
>dem 10/10 characters
>dat direction
>dem aesthetics
>dat HOLY FUCK DUDE HALLWAY SCENE OMGGGGG

God damn best movie i've seen all year!!!!

>are determined to play things safe and keep as much consistency as possible.

And they failed horribly at it.

It's not fresh or original, in fact it's too much similar to the movies despite being set like 1000 years before. It even uses very similar characters to the movies, it's just that it uses them in different and interesting ways.

Basically it works with the tool already laid by the old trilogy in new ways, instead of creating new tools.

There's such a thing as "bad premise" you know.

They could expand the universe if they wanted to.
hire some new artists and writers and give them the license to do new stuff, but that would require taking risks and possibly doing something the fans don't like.

I can't tell who's being ironic anymore

I don't even care if he's making fun of me, I got my edgy fanservice movie and everyone else can keep crying desu

I never met anyone who was interested in the "War" part in Star Wars, kinda what is talking about.

Does any one know what the expected 2nd week numbers are for Rogue One?

Fuark ya yo. Shit was CASH as HELL desu desu!!!

They are idiots.

Every World War 2 movie has Nazis. Does that mean they are all shit?

Complaining about Tie Fighters or AT-ST is like complaining that Fury had Tigers and Shermans.

Disney releases a SW movie that's the best since the OT.

Sup Forums shits on it because it isn't as good as the OT.

Why?

...

Not the guy you're replying to but even though I've never seen Rogue One, I am slightly interested in the "war" aspect.

I didn't get that interest from watching the movies though. The movies have never shown me anything to make me interested in the war aspect of Star Wars.

My interest in the war aspect came from non-canon EU stuff, like Republic Commando, the Battlefront games, etc.

>How many times have you seen someone say 'X person '''has''' the force'

this pisses me off to no end

Jay has a really fucking huge schnozz

Star Wars is normie shit

>Yeah nah
Kys yourself faggot. The first half of R1 tried and failed to be a star wars movie. The second half was a war movie and the only part that was actually good. That's enough to convince me that there is plenty of room for war in star wars.

They can but people who don't like Star Wars won't like it. I mean it's a fucking sci fi universe with with two distinct sides called light and dark but besides that it can be any genre, setting, or story if you want to look past "oh this isn't funny and is too boring why isn't the same but just a little new" even though it's a fucking direct prequel.

>Are Rich and Jay right
Probably yes

Those fucks live and breathe star wars, and they seem to understand what makes a good movie

I dont care enough about Star Wars to analyze it to the point that they do

>they seem to understand what makes a good movie
Why can't they make one then?

I don't know why more people don't see it this way. I'm more interested in seeing a coherent, tense battle where I know what everything does than I am in close-ups of 'zany character #762 flying the Falcon around going 'whoah I don't know about this bazinga!'.

>Are Rich and Jay right?

Not really.

>Is Star Wars really a limited universe that's impossible to create new things without the imagery/nostalgia of the OT?

No. and even then that imagery itself isn't an actual problem, its all about the execution and recontextualization. Plus every now and then they do try something new that isnt the prequels (Old Republic, R1, etc) and it seems distinct wnoyu.

>Pretty much makes this a dead franchise and I have no interest in seeing any future Star Wars flicks.

Okay. Don't buy the tickets. Don't be those people who cry about capeshit but went to see Deadpool and Suicide Squad cause it was capeshit ~*BUT DIFFERENT*~

>oh look, it's Darth Vader, TIE Fighters, Tarkin, AT-ST and characters from the OT
This is a Star Wars movie set in the OT timeline, how's that a fanservice, you needed it in the movie
Threepio, dudes from a New Hope cantina, on the other hand...

the awkward as fuck cameos and CGI necromancy were the worst thing about it by far. They weren't enough to put me off the rest though, I just cringed and moved on

>Those fucks live and breathe star wars

Any REAL Star Wars fan can see they are nothing but surface level fans no better than the normies they like to feel superior to, but can't see that they are on the same level on.

It's entirely possible. The Star Wars universe has a wide range of alien races and cultures, it has advanced technologies, it has an established timeline covering thousands of years and, unlike the vast majority of scifi canons, it has a general acceptance of magic. There's huge potential there, but it'll never be tapped in film form while nostalgia pandering gives guaranteed profits.

>As if the force is a set of fucking spells from Hogwarts

Explain exactly how force abilities are unlike spells?

The KOTOR universe is a waste of time and copies everything from the movies.

You are a genuine fag

When I watched the older movies, I thought the Force was basically a gift bestowed on good-hearted people, but it could quickly turn sour if you weren't ready. Or something

It's a limited universe only insofar as what the fans are willing to accept from a star wars film. They can do literally anything. But not everyone would be cool with anything.

It's pretty obvious that affiliation with the force is hereditary, though.

I thought it was more like Tao or something, like it all depended on the user to relax and let the right thing happen. I did grow up with massive hippy parents though

I don't understand why they killed Saw Gerrera off so quickly.
He was the most interesting one of them, probably some dude that started out as a rebel with hope, but then turned into a cynical man by all the extreme shit that he has already done.
He was like a war veteran version of Anakin turning Darth Vader, could've been really interesting and in sync with the themes of the franchise.

This, and this review proved it. TFA hit their right spot of what they wanted and Rogue One was "too dark" to do it for them.

They bitch about people applauding over being excited about Star Wars imagery but then turn around and say they want the same beats they got before.

In the end its their opinion and that's fine, but Star Wars as a whole is only limited to what the audience wants it to be limited too.

Also I'm beginning to realize these guys are kind of actual jerks when it comes to Star Wars and only get cited because they picked an easy target to rip apart (the Prequels)

Yes ofc, but it always seemed to be implied that Vader was a hero of sorts before turning to the dark side.

It is, but some people can more consciously commune with it than others. Everyone interacts with the Force, and through meditation and study anyone could manipulate it in minor ways, like the azn in Rogue One, but only certain people are naturally inclined towards it to the point that they can use Force abilities.

what do you expect from 3 losers in wisconsin? they're just sad because it's cold and snowy now.

I was glad he didn't last long, even if his actual death was a bit like 'welp time to get killed'. It established that he was the Osama Bin Laden of the rebellion and he just lucked into one really useful mission at the same time his space Baghdad got rekt and he had nobody to command anymore. He wasn't meant to be 'the most important perfect person alive who you WILL relate to' like every other fucking character in TFA

>Rey is a good character
>Daisy is a good actress

That was like a sucker punch

if there were more SJW overtones RLM would have loved it. they're cucks!

So Star Wars can no longer contain anything from Star Wars or they're just pandering to nerds?

I disagree with saying Rey was a good character or that Daisy was good in TFA, but they were both better than whatsherface in Rogue One. I literally couldn't give a shit about her or her story. There was no reason for the audience to root for her because we have no idea who she was as a person.

exactly. if they had put her in a slave girl outfit and put a leash around her neck, I would have totally cared more about her!

Yes and we totally know Rey as a person.

Can you even describe Rey? Without using mary sue qualities?

I didn't even have a problem with her performance really, I didn't enjoy it but it made sense. More young grills are going to see movies because of Hunger Games and shit, they can make as much money appealing to them in current year as they did appealing to teenage boys with Marty Mcfly. I just think women make less convincing hero characters in violent movies overall, it always feels a little off.

The Star Wars franchise will never escape from the OT's shadow. Disney isn't interested in trying to create new interesting stories within the same universe, when rehashing old plots and filling new media with endless nods to old OT characters will still make loads of money.
I think with this franchise they've decided not to bother trying to ape the OT, like you see plenty of movies trying to be "the next avatar" etc etc, and most of them falling on their ass. They know they can't make anything that will be regarded as equal to ESB, especially not within the Star Wars franchise, so they don't bother, and instead focus on coldly making lots of money. Which is annoying because cashing in on the nostalgia really works, at least so far.
These disney flicks are all going to be just as middle of the road as TFA, and will offer nothing to the franchise as a whole. People generally agree the OT was good, and the prequels are memorable by virtue of mixed opinions about them, but inoffensive, vanilla flicks will be quickly forgotten

how come mike's hands are so red? is it cold in there?
does he have to poop?
is he worrying about his hands too much?

That's because you can spend enough time to introduce a character and develop it in what will be a series of 3 movies.

It's hard to do so equally in a one shot movie (especially knowing that character gets vaporised at the end of the film)

I'm not sure why I was supposed to a shit about Alanzo the Assassin, who murdered people loyal to the rebellion and was an even worse character than Jyn

>You were going to kill my Dad even after I told you he has been rebelling against the Empire for 15 years and built a flaw in the Death Star allowing it to be destroyed?
>But I didn't u mad? u mad? y u mad tho?

Jesus Christ

Their blatant hypocrisy about Rogue One after all their gushing over TFA is pretty disgusting.

KOTOR 2 Netflix Miniseries when?

I feel like if you want to break off and do something different in Star Wars, TV would be a good way to do it.

KOTOR 2 is rough, but get Sarah Kestelman back on for Live Action Kreia and sweet female villian points, clean up the rough spots in the script, you've got a damn good series.

You can totally do DARK in Star Wars, but I feel like you have to commit to it more than Rogue One did and actually flesh out the characters more.

Frankly I just want more Sarah Kestelman, that Woman's voice is god Tier

>"YOU SHALL NOT HARM HIM. YOU SHALL NOT HARM HIM, EVER AGAIN."

I never got a Mary Sue thing from Rey , more just heavily rushed.

Like they jammed all the development from ANH and ESB into a single movie. She just needs to lose a leg for pottery reason's and we'll be good.

He was punching the wall in rehearsal.

These guys think they're better than the "Fat bearded nerds" that were watching the same screening as them, which is the saddest thing of all.

Also Mike, Mr 302 lbs, stop using fat as a derogatory term for others...

The Star Wars franchise will never escape the OT's shadow because the fanbase refuses to let it try. Curse Disney all you want but so far their experiments have been successes, and its surprising to see people like RLM cling further to the OT out of some need to not let themselves fall for another supposed Prequel trilogy.

t. fat neck beard

Generally, a character like rey would get most of her development from learning how to use the force. We'd learn about the force too, we'd see what her weaknesses and fears were, and eventually we'd see her conquer those things through mastering the force, probably while taking a moral high road against her enemies.
In TFA, she barely knows about the force in one scene, and in the next she is Jedi mind tricking soldiers. Not only is it a missed development opportunity, it sets the tone that everything is going to come very easily for rey

Presumably she's going to get fucked over massively in Ep 8 to stop it getting too boring

If you clapped during the flick at any given moment or exclaimed loudly at a given characters forced appearance, you're the epitome of pathetic ironic-fanboyism and normalfoggotry that Mike described.

I felt pretty ashamed of Rich hearing him say this. Means he never played KOTOR. Further proof of what a fake ass gamer he is.

I do think she is a Mary Sue, but at least we got a glimpse of how she is outside of being a Mary Sue in her daily life prior to her adventure beginning. Mike and Jay have a point when they mention how we literally know nothing about Jyn as a person. She has no personality. At least Rey is a bit of a dweeb despite how annoying it is that every single character likes her right away.

I totally agree that it's harder to develop a character in a single movie, but it's not impossible. To bring up the Ocean's 11 example, we at least get a feel for a number of characters in that movie despite the fact that the movie only focuses mainly around 2 or 3 of them. Rogue One would have benefited from fewer characters and a few more scenes to flesh out Jyn to make her feel more human.

NO
ONE
CARES
ABOUT
SHIT
VIDEO
GAMES
Sup ForumsEDDIT

You can't win with the fans like RLM now. If you do the same as the OT, it's a cynical rehash. If you wildly divert from the OT, it's either called a disaster like the prequels, or they claim it "doesn't feel like star wars". Ideally there would just be no more star wars movies, but because people like money, they've gone for the sensible lowest common denominator route

This is true

I am literally a 30ish bearded star wars autist exactly like they described and I didn't take offense at them saying that at all, it's just 'ha you got me I do like muh star wars'. I don't understand why Sup Forums sees everything as some kind of controversy

>I do think she is a Mary Sue, but at least we got a glimpse of how she is outside of being a Mary Sue in her daily life prior to her adventure beginning.
I agree. It was nice to see an exposition on her. But once she gets involved in the story all of that is lost and she's le strong womyn. She's worse than Jyn. At least Jyn has something going on throughout the entire movie even it if isn't much.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Jyn >>> Rey. Just Jyn > Rey.

Since Rich is an idiot and will never play KOTOR he will never see that you can do a dark Star Wars story

I feel like the solution here would be to try and get those original cuts of the OT out into the market so they can stay with them and as far away as the other stuff. Unfortunately, that can't be said for RLMdrones that just take their opinions as word of God.

It wasnt offensive or controversial but I felt it was a dick move, especially after years of fostering fans from that very same crowd. Laughing at yourself is one thing, but straight out saying that only undesirables will love a film that objectively didn't have any of the number of problems the Prequels had is just obnoxious.

they actually thought eu\r1 stuff is pointless and it is better to recreate the originals in different ways, because the settings isn't so flexible to do something like r1 in a good way

Eh, I kind of get where you're coming from. I just found the glimpses of a human we saw in Rey during those early scenes in TFA to make for a better character than Jyn.

I mean, a few flashbacks of Jyn's relationship with her father would have really solved all of this, to be honest. I get that she was hung up on him, but we really have no understanding of why she feels as strong about him as she does. The only two interactions we see between the two of them is him telling her to die, and him dying and telling her to get the plans. Hell, it would have been just as good for her to absolutely hate her father and blame him for her mother's death, but that's barely even touched upon.

The only idiot is a video gamer, kiddo.

if you watch the final confrontation in star wars 6 on youtube, in the comments you will always see some idiot saying shit like "why didn't luke fight the emperor after defeating vader?"

I liked star wars 4 5 and 6, and I still like them. but the fans are complete retards pieces of shit, autistic faggot nerds

Yeah, it would have been nice to show a father daughter relationship. I mean we get it, it's her father. Of course she loves him. But show us those emotions, don't just leave it as a logical assumption.

Wasted potential. What's weird is how well disney is with animated characters but how poorly they are with real ones. It isn't that different.

Wasted potential is the perfect way to describe Rogue One. I don't now how they did it, but they managed to take a big risk while being completely safe at the same time, leaving me feeling a bit underwhelmed when all was said and done.

>mfw fat pigs from Sup Forums would love to see two hours slideshow of tie fighters, x wings and darth vader, with background stock sound explosions and like the nostalgia pig eaters they are they would love it

>>R1 needed more quips like the Marvel movies which are all great

agreed, Marvel movies are fucking shit
>>it was too dark

>>it wasn't FUN

don't know, point of views I guess
>>Rey was not a mary sue and charismatic as hell

they said she WAS a mary sue but the actress was carismatic, while felicity is boring as hell- they're right
>>the ending scene of R1 was bad

Vader scene is pure pointless fan service. It's embarassing if you think about it. Leia appeareance is stupid as fuck

Eh, I almost like them more because they deliberately tried to annoy me. They'd been doing the bland friend simulator thing for so long it was getting on my nerves

KOTOR was fucking brilliant. The amount of creativity in that game is incredible.

Kotor is what the prequels should have been

>Anakin goes against the Jedi to fight the Manadalorians
>realizes the Republic is weak and creates an army to over throw it
>is seduced by the dark side
>jedi fracture and civil war erupts killing most of them and the order
>betrayed by sheev
>dies and becomes vader
>obi wan calls says he fought with anakin in the clone wars, meaning he fought along side anakin against the mandalorians, and he fought against anakin in his civil war, hence why they are called clone wars because they were back to back

Kotor is the story of Revan, top Jedi student, having enough of the Jedi Orders pacifism about not getting involved in the Mandalorian war. Mandalorians invade the galaxy and try to destroy the republic, think of a race of warriors that just fight for the sake of battle

Revan discovers the Sith planet during the war and learns about the forbidden teachings, he also discovers a "Star Forge" which is a super powered factory created by an ancient civilization

So all of a sudden this war hero has numerous followers because he saved the Republic and he has near infinite resources to wage a war

can you guys who already had your fix of 'deepest lore space monks' SW with kotor and the academy books etc. at least acknowledge that us spergs who grew up on Rogue Squadron finally got something? there's enough to go around right

Also, have you noticed that Star Wars keeps trying to cast Brit girls in the hope of making a Bastila?

You can never make Bastila, unless you're going to get Kate Beckinsale.

Funnily enough I was joking with a friend during my watching of Rogue One that Rey was too much like Bastila design wise kinda like how Kylo had Revan influences. We joked saying maybe theyd flip each character accordingly and Ep 9 would be Kylo bringing Rey back.

>muh heart, muh characters

The original trilogy had fine and fun characters but they were all archetypes and nothing new. It doesn't make you sound more intelligent or cool to say 'I only cared about the characters and all the science fiction stuff, costumes and vehicles were all silly things for little kids - I'm much more MATURE'

Of course characters matter but R1 went for a different tone and had an ensemble cast and did perfectly fine with it while actually injecting some nuance into the story of the Alliance and doing a little bit of interesting and creative world-building (unlike the derivative mess of TFA).

All star wars movies are popcorn blockbusters. ESB is just a very good one - nothing more.

Bad circulation due to diabetes.

who was the biggest mary sue, Darth Revansue or Rey?

It's not a main SW movie, it's supposed to be something different.

If you just want another rehash of a previous movie, go watch TFA again.

They just need to remake Star Wars: It Ain't Me for the big screen.

The movie wasn't about the characters, it was about the war. If anything, the movie was at its worse when it slowed down and tried to make us care about Jyn's familial conflicts or her boytoy's inner demons.