Man in the high castle s2

I was not here for the first few threads. What did you think of season 2?

I haven't watched a single episode of this show, but the reviews for season two I saw on Rotten Tomatoes seriously pissed me off. A bunch of faggots saying they don't like the show because we're going to be living it in real life because Donald Trump is literally Hitler. I imagine all their hard work on this series being presented to critics who trash it because of events you have no control over.

Made me so mad I might pick it up.

so far I have only seen 3 episodes and the quality of the writing is questionable

Sup Forums tricked me into watching season 1; not going to be fooled again

I'm mildly triggered seeing what we missed out on but the show is decent.
Kido went from being a total prick to a pretty cool guy. Every epsiode the rebels get less sympathetic. We get to see Berlin and there's a qt German girl.

I think Ive tried to watch the pilot a couple of times and never continued, is there any cool naz I tech or interesting exterminations going on in s1 or 2 that I can old skim for?

>Every epsiode the rebels get less sympathetic.
your ex gf gets 2 cops killed while running away from the resistance. cops are going to round up randos and resistance rolls up to you saying you have to save them unless you are ok with their blood being on your hands.
>We get to see Berlin and there's a qt German girl.
for once I wish someone would say they enjoy high society parties. I came for the Reich and instead I found daddy issues. season 1 had a lot more harsh things going on but season 2 feels like modern pussy view of totalitarianism were mild discomfort and examination is the sign of evil

how is american supposed to read eastern spelling? would he just show the paper to whomever picked him up?

>I came for the Reich and instead I found daddy issues.
Yeah, I'm not gonna pretend that Joe isn't a huge faggot. But surprise, that's the case for nearly all of the protagonists.
>season 1 had a lot more harsh things going on but season 2 feels like modern pussy view of totalitarianism where mild discomfort and examination is the sign of evil
My theory is that in Season 1 the writers really tried to establish who was good and who wasn't. That means showing the bad guys doing brutal shit. Now that they have that out of the way they can sink into shades of grey, and that means "subtle dystopia". Unfortunately if you're Sup Forums enough the entire impression gets screwed up. Why is Juliana so creeped out by everything in the Reich? Why is Joe so angry over being lebensborn? The only main character that really has a legitimate grievance by the ending episodes of S2 is Frank, and that's down to the Japs.

completely agree about the unfair criticism, finished first season a couple of months ago gonna start the season two soon. If you're not a Philip k. dick elitist I would suggest giving it a chance.

>Why is Juliana so creeped out by everything in the Reich?
its also confounded by the strange framing. like she acts like she was defiled during her medical examination and when she gets to her personal room she hides in the corner from adolfs picture . also Im not one of those "slut it up girlfriend" types and I know its kind of set in the past but I lost what little sympathy i had for her when she turned on her mom going "what you were going to do the whole platoon" seriouls the woman even said it was after her father died and given how much she herself has moved away from social norms I found it strange she would bitch at her mom given how much damage she has done to their lives. I felt worse for the husband who had unknowingly being raising other mans child than I felt for the memory for her first husband

i only watch it because dude nazis lmao

I just started watching this show today. My main problem is how it tries to be over-the-top Nazi, as in why does the average joe highway policeman wear a Swastika armband? Are the local police run by the SS?

Also please tell me that this "film showing the Allies winning WW2" storyline isn't some alternate reality/time travel BS.

does it make me elitist if I don't like that man in the high castle is not hitler?

>Also please tell me that this "film showing the Allies winning WW2" storyline isn't some alternate reality/time travel BS.
You're not gonna like this show.

>Also please tell me that this "film showing the Allies winning WW2" storyline isn't some alternate reality/time travel BS.

I haven't watched the show, but in the book there's a novelist (who lives in the "High Castle") who wrote a novel about an alternate history where the Allies won. There isn't any actual time travel or alternate realities going on, though; it's just history flipped around, so to say, with the Man in the High Castle representing Philip K. Dick himself, in a way. Who knows where the show's creators are going to take the story, though?

It's ok, i'm on ep3 of season 2. It has some cool moments but for the most part not really very interesting. None of the characters are very relatable either, I really don't care who dies or lives cause I hate them all.

Isn't that because you hate everyone in general?

>does the average joe highway policeman wear a Swastika armband? Are the local police run by the SS?
I said the same thing. there are Swastika and eagles in everything. some user posted old coffee grinder with swastika saying they really used to have it everywhere but I still think the show is overdoing it

>Also please tell me that this "film showing the Allies winning WW2" storyline isn't some alternate reality/time travel BS.
it does. hitler is used films to win the war, strangely man in the High Castle has more films than hitler but he has not done jack

>Betraying the Nips and the Italians

Anyone else feel sorry for Hitler here, his two friends and allies getting fucked over despite his best efforts because his lackeys took his Aryan speeches too far

not even smith?

nips are getting ready to nuke German land so I don't see a problem

Only cause they know once Hitler was gone they'd be fucked

Are the Italians as useless in this show as they were in rl?

I enjoyed it. They don't waste a lot of time telling you the details of history you should already know. You should know who Himmler and Goebbels are and what they did so they jump directly into the interpersonal relationships with the characters.

I am not sure why everyone claims the nazi are over the top or caricatures of evil, they act in a way that is consistent with what they know of them. In particular all the subtle racism and propaganda that was on display when the women would speak about how horrible the Japanese, their supposed ally, were.

In the end the tv show is bringing us a very positive message of hope, how we should be treating the individual like a person instead of just a member of the group. That is how the atomic war is prevented by Julia, its her innate faith in people. Unlike the Nazi and the Japs whose lack of trust and faith in people will be their downfall

We don't even see il Duce so yeah

I watched the first few episodes of season 1 but dropped this show.

It was surprising how boring it was considering the theme.

Did it ever get better?

yes
not if they use science to keep him alive. also don't pretend like nips in this show don't have the same hate for Germans that Germans have for all

The overuse of Swastikas is primarily found in America, which is occupied territory with active resistance present. Think of it like a tactic where people are simply fed propaganda and reminded of the party everywhere they turn. You're supposed to feel that the power of the party is not just great but total.

They fuck around in the Neutral Zone for waaaaay too long.
Season 2 is better but if you're not a Nazi or a history buff I don't see a reason to watch it.

>Did it ever get better?

Yes, but only if you are interested in a show about people and the struggle between the official state ideology and what they know to be right.

>its her innate faith in people

any good quality torrents for the last 4 episodes?

no but its ok if you skip around the boring bits.

Refusing to let some wop zealot use a kid's illness to blackmail a state official means she has faith in humanity :^)

>don't pretend like nips in this show don't have the same hate for Germans that Germans have for all

They don't, the Japanese for the most part don't hate other people as long as you will act as you are supposed to act. Life in the pacific was bad but anyone could be comfortable if they did what they were supposed to do.

The Germans would kill people out of superficial hate, not just disobedience. The worldview of the Germans is far worse then the Nips.

I think the man in the high castle found the films, showed them to Hitler in order to prevent the war from happening in the first place. Hitler then realized that he could use the films to win and the Man in the high castle then had to support the resistance in order to undo the mistake.

>The Germans would kill people out of superficial hate, not just disobedience
???

Kill a kid with epilepsy is superficial. There is no reason for him to die. Its a noncommunicable disease. The same with their racial purity laws. Or not allowing a women to stay because she can't have a kid.

There are plenty of ways those people can contribute to society. It is a very superficial those people are bad so kill them. Instead of those people acted in a way to harm us so kill them.

>the Japanese for the most part don't hate other people as long as you will act as you are supposed to act.
you are thinking of real life Japanese . this show has different Japanese. here nips put uranium into civilian buses and say its ok because those buses are for none nips

how would he get away from hitler while taking a whole warehouse of films with him?

The japanese beat people into submission and kill as punishment. This is fairly standard for an occupying force. It's not at all unlike how Europeans treated colonial populations.

The Nazis literally just kill people because they happen to be on a list people that aren't allowed to live.

I didn't say they were good. They are very evil but its a different kind of evil. The japs don't care about the people in the pacific states. The Nazi care about making the white man live like a Nazi.

The evil of indifference is slightly more palatable

Unpleasant, I'd say, but not superficial. Thomas had the ability to be a perfectly useful subject, within limited bounds, but the logic is that allowing him to live will cause more suffering than euthanizing him. There's no hate involved there, however you define such a nebulous term as "hatred".

I would have rather seen him sterilized, since that's just as eugenic and muscular dystrophy isn't painful to my knowledge. But that wouldn't have had the same emotional impact on John or have made the Nazis look as evil.

Is the second season any better than the first? I found the first season to be pretty underwhelming considering such a great idea. The only character that's even likable is the german officer

Epilepsy is hereditary though and the Nazis were attempting to kill anyone who they perceived to have bad genes.

> the logic is that allowing him to live will cause more suffering than euthanizing him.

That is a decision for the individual, The perfect nazi surrenders his free will to the state just like Thomas. The state seeks to remove that agency and decide what is best. That is evil

I don't really see where you got the idea that the Man in the High Castle stole the films from Hitler.

>The perfect nazi surrenders his free will to the state just like Thomas.

I think the deal with Thomas was simply that he realized he was going to die any way and that by hiding he was just putting his family in danger because they clearly refused to turn him in.

Of course, from an outsiders point of view Thomas is the perfect nazi.

>he believes free will exists

lmao

and non epileptic parents can have an epileptic children, they don't kill the parents and other kids do they? Of course not.

It is all about what benefits the state and giving up your own individual agency. How anyone would support such a system is insane. Especially when the time came they would eliminate you too.

They didn't even do a postmortem on the doctor because they have no care for the individual. Each person is a cog and replaceable. There is no care for individual life

>Kill a kid with epilepsy is superficial. There is no reason for him to die. Its a noncommunicable disease.
its hereditary. eugenics used to be big in US before ww2.
>noncommunicable disease
he will still need state support.
>The same with their racial purity laws.
someone always has to suffer so its a good way to exclude people without feeling bad about it. The problem with "nazis" win worlds is that once there is no one to fight nazis will just breed and make same shortages as before.
>Or not allowing a women to stay because she can't have a kid.
that is strange since as far as I recall hitler was against even teaching none germans to speak German, since her origin is unknown its strange that her ability to breed will be a positive. I would think they would have gone in opposite direction and offered her extra citizenship points for volunteering to be sterilized
>There are plenty of ways those people can contribute to society
these days even a quadriplegic can contribute by writing a book but is not about looking for any way to give people a chance, its about cutting out people who have problems in hopes that they will stop being born.
>harm
any avoidable expenditure of time and money brings harm to the state by weakening its war readiness

it's not just that historically (I don't know about their approach or reasoning in the show)

Historically, the Nazi party wanted to remind people how they were improving their lives, and so products that were made available, or safe, or cheap again by the party would be marked with the party logo.

So many americans right now totally fail to understand why germans were down with the Nazi party.


They didn't just sweep into power and say "lets hate people"

They delivered on their promises - they took an impoverished, shamed german people who had to spend 15000 marks to mail a letter locally (I have a binder of prewar german stamps from when I was a philatelist, that number is not exaggeration)

All the way to modern, first world livings conditions again.

So imagine you go from zimbabwe - to american midwest in just under a decade.

And the party who did it, reminded you of that EVERY instant. Every stick of butter, every tire, every jacket made in the country, and at a reduced price to you, has a swastika.
You'd be on board when they started telling you that the reason it worked was "kill the jews" Especially beccause "kill the jews" was the "Deport the immigrants" because their mexicans had managed to stay rich through the worst times.

Oh to live in that timeline :) Gross Germania!

The state has the duty to ensure the common good, and removing Thomas from the gene pool does contribute to that. I do question why the state's decided to throw Aryan cripples in the oven instead of sterilizing them, but again it's likely for reasons of plot.
This. I liked Thomas but he did the right thing under the circumstances.

>The evil of indifference is slightly more palatable
maybe for you but not for people who would have to ride those buses,live in that poverty and suffer from that indifference.

Even after - George Bush was a big proponent of a program that secretly sterilized native american and black women in the 70's

Eugenics was actually quite popular all over Europe and in America at the time of WW2. It was only because the Nazis used eugenics that it fell out of favour.

Season 2 is very good and Rufus Sewell's performance is excellent.

>This. I liked Thomas but he did the right thing under the circumstances.

No, he didn't allow himself to be murdered as a sacrifice to his family, He allowed himself to die as sacrifice to the state. He saw himself as defective. Julia even told him that imperfection can be beautiful. It was a central theme.

He could see no beauty in variety and imperfection, he only saw the nazi ideal and killed himself because of it. His father broke every rule possible out of love for his son and his son killed himself for love of the state.

>maybe for you but not for people who would have to ride those buses,live in that poverty and suffer from that indifference.

The evil the Japanese will rest, they won't watch you 24/7 because they don't care about you. The Nazi care about you, they feel it is their moral duty to protect you. Their evil will never sleep.

Better to be poor as as servant of the Japs then Rich and a servant of the Nazi

Why can't it be both? I'm sure that state doctrine entered into his decision, but he was a smart kid. He saw his dad in Berlin and knew that if he stuck around it could potentially ruin his family's life.
>variety
Variety doesn't make your children have petit mal seizures.

This guy is really good too.

>The Nazi care about you, they feel it is their moral duty to protect you. Their evil will never sleep.
>protecting the people and creating a high-trust society is now evil

>and non epileptic parents can have an epileptic children, they don't kill the parents and other kids do they? Of course not.
eventually it will die out. maybe his parents did not have it but his grandparents did or someone in his line did. given how far they track family trees it would not be strange for them to play the long game with while not dumping perfectly functional parents.
>That is a decision for the individual
so you are here to judge who is an individual?
>That is evil
everyone loves the nanny state when it does whatever is it they support. also ultimately even the liberal state limits persons agency for the common good

>Why can't it be both?

because he didn't communicate that to his mother, he was not trying to make a noble sacrifice for his family. He went back to his book, read about how he was defective, got dressed up as a nazi and went to go kill himself.

It was very clear what the author was trying to say. He had placed the ideals of the state and their ideology over his own agency and love for his family. His father on the other hand was doing the exact opposite. He keeps putting his own feelings and love for family over the state ideology.

It is one of the main issues the show is trying to address.

The Nazis control Italy in the show's universe, so yeah.

I think you underestimate how damaging an uncaring government can be. with the nazis you at least have a chance to fit their mold, with japs you are fucked no matter what

>It was only because the Nazis used eugenics that it fell out of favour.

You're actually wrong about this. Eugenics programs continued well after WW2 in both America and Europe. It was seen an scientific and entirely reasonable. The only reason they stopped was because it simply didn't work and there was no benefit to running forced sterilization programs

Of course, your point that eugienics was common as fuck is correct, the fact that it kept going after WW2 only really demonstrates just how extremely common it was.

again you are devaluing his agency and implying that any person who gives his life for the ideals he believes in is just a brainwashed puppet and does not have the right kind of agency

>it simply didn't work
its not going to work in 10 or even 100 years. you have to keep at it.
>no benefit to running forced sterilization programs
the insane and mentally damaged don't breed.

I think you're misunderstanding. To Thomas, the family is part of the state. His family in particular is a very important, high-ranking part of the state, and for John's cover-up to be exposed would damage both their family and their country in a major way.
Thomas loved his family, but he also loved his country, and he didn't know about the South America plan. There was only one thing to be done from his viewpoint, and he did it in the best way that he could.

Every man is an island :^)

>with the nazis you at least have a chance to fit their mold,.

His point is that if you didn't fit that mold, you were fucked. Like you might as well literally kill yourself because the nazis will hunt you down no matter what. In real life, entire families could hide in people's walls and outhouses for months on end.

No he made the decision, he made it for the wrong reason. He was placing the importance of the state ahead of his own personal needs and the wishes of his family.

He was ignoring his father and mother who said they loved him and would rather him live. He, in mind, made the wrong decision. The author I would argue was attempting to make the same.

If it was supposed to be a good decision why is his father slowly making decisions in the exact opposite of him. The good nazi is becoming a bad one, as his puts his family over the state. Those decisions help save the world instead of destroy it.

yes. if you don't fit you are fucked but with nips you are fucked no mater what you do
>entire families could hide in people's walls
nips(in the show) gassed a woman and her 2 kids so that some other guy would talk.

To be honest I would of prefered an alternate history where the USSR won the Cold War and America became communist. Nazi's are a bit overdone as far as enemies go.

>nips(in the show) gassed a woman and her 2 kids so that some other guy would talk.

It was not out of hate for jewish people, it was to extract information. There is a difference. The japs didn't care about racial purity

>He was placing the importance of the state ahead of his own personal needs and the wishes
are you so sure his wish was not to serve the needs of the state? all the way from s1 one he was a prefect nazi boy who never missed a meeting till his daddy took him fishing.

>the insane and mentally damaged don't breed.

These people tend not to breed anyway so the act of sterilizing them is redundant. Meanwhile so many disorders are found in dormant traits. it's not that all retarded people are born of other retarded people. Children can just end up being retarded for completely unknown reasons or it's entirely due to physical defects like brain injuries.

the dead don't care about motives. hell at least with nazis the jew knows where he stands but with nips they can be yanked at a whim and everyone who is not a nip is a second class citizen who has to lick boots in a jewelry shop selling of their ancestry or work in a bar listening to oldfags telll stories about how they fucked your grandpa in the ass. the lucky ones get to be secretaries who are from time to time used as personal whores

I think what is missing from "Thomas, a perfect nazi" is simply that he didn't inform on his parents. He might of course, but from what we can see all he does is turn himself in and it's just muddy enough that some people don't see the reasons why.

>These people tend not to breed anyway so the act of sterilizing them is redundant.
not if they are taken advantage of. also many homeless are functional enough to have sex with each other.
>end up being retarded for completely
so save the state some money and send them to sleep. most even don't have enough awareness to have an opinion on it
>injuries
that is another thing. nazis looked a lot more favorably at someone that has lost his legs than someone who was born with ones that did not work

>simply that he didn't inform on his parents
in s1 did not inform on his friend and his parents or call him out on not informing on them?

I am sure he wished to serve the needs of the state. He was the perfect Nazi child. That does not make the decision wrong. The author was clearly trying to portray it in the negative

it goes back to the man in the high castle. What saved the world from nuclear disaster. It was her kindness toward a sick nazi, her belief that he should be given a chance to live his life and make his decisions, instead of killing him because of who he was.

The show has a very clear message about kindness and the importance of the individual and the evils of the state and group think

*that still makes his decision wrong

Proof read your posts nigger.

>y trying to portray it in the negative
yeah well they "tried" with everything. like when Julia shows up with no medical records they paint the examination as evil (even the none race related stuff) they tried a lot but failed most of the time

Yeah that twist with Juliana saving him only to have him turn himself is was pretty fucked up.

did not he inform on his f etc

The medial exam was wrong. It was not a medical exam for her health but to determine if she was pure white enough and could have babies for the state.

They had no concern for her safety, they used x-rays without protection, they cared little about her or the doctors, only what was of benefit to the state

They succeed quite well as long as you are not a person who believes in an ideology that places the value of the state above the individual, then you can excuse their actions

>loves his wife and kids; good husband and father
>loyal to his friends and his country
>spares the life of resistance scum so that he can take her in and rehabilitate her as a good productive citizen
>strong morals and sense of right and wrong
>saves the world from World War III by bringing traitors to justice

Why is he the villain again?

exactly, belief in the individual is what saved his life, belief in the state is what doomed him. It is fucked up but its a very clear message

>It was not a medical exam for her health but to determine if she was pure white enough and could have babies for the state.
So it was an exam to determine if she was the sort of person that they wanted to allow into their nation?
What's your problem with the state safeguarding its people?

Pretty sure he is one of those people the Man in the high castle described as different depending on reality.

What happens to Ed? Is he chilling in the Neutral Zone?

What about Joe Black? Is he going to get executed for his connection to his dad?

What does that have to do with anything? hitler himself could be a saint in another reality, unless you buy into the outlook that some people are bad in all realities.

Hes going to be a "good goy" on the inside in the next season now that his son gave himself up

because you are clearly missing the arguments the author is trying to make. The exam was bad because it shows no concern for the individual. The nazi didn't care that they had a person in front of them. They saw a possible white unit that could create 2.5 more white units.

It helps show the evil of a society where the individual has no value. They didn't even care about the dangers of radiation. I am sure that would only cause a problem later in life and by then they would just kill her anyways

So...why is Himmler above Heydrich? And Himmler is the good guy? Pretty cool