Sherlock ep3

>fucked so hard that can't even tel the sex in a gory mess
Why do brits always do this in their fiction?

>started as a decently fun and clever detective flick
>ended with Serbian Film levels of insanity

Does Moffat suffer from severe autism?

I think this is what the fans wanted

No it wasn't. I browsed tumblr after the finale came out just to see the fangirls' reactions. All of them were whining about how disappointed they were. Literally no-one likes Sherlock anymore.

*enslaves you*

If you think that wasn't a set up episode for something bigger then you wasn't watching close enough.

Are you one of the writers? Because they seem as detached from the reality of what the fans want as you do.

When you get to the point where the actors are openly desperate to leave despite being signed on for another season, you know you've fucked up to the point of no return.

Episode 1 was a dumpster fire. Ep 2 was great, almost as if all of the wannabe James Bond crap never happened. Ep 3 was good, but I wasn't a fan of Eurus. I sick of this tired characterization of genius as psychopathy. There's never any reasoning given for her doing any of the things she does. She's supposed to be divorced from human emotion, yet she's jealous of Sherlock's friendship? Somehow she can manipulate people into committing murder or suicide, but is incapable of communicating her basic needs? Bullshit.

>something bigger
in a mini series every ep should count
BBC does it again

I get the feeling that the show-runners realised Hannibal was vastly superior to Sherlock and decided to create a Hannibal character but with a pussy because feminism.

Hannibal has style, he is not smear shit on the walls bonkers.

And it will. Who says it's over? Sunday, 9pm. Be ready, the game is on.

Moffat isn't intelligent enough to know the difference.

No, the pacing is too shit.
One of the things that was appealing was the use of On Screen Displays in a Extended Reality fashion to speed up the explanation

So after something happens, Sherlock looks, and there is a gigantic Augmented Reality on display.
Fancy chemical names and random clutter looks interesting as AR.

Ep 3 was made to demonstrate "what the people want" is not what the creators are doing.

It's very clearly intentionally made with the idea of going against all of its own rules in mind, using cheesy effects and bad tropes among many other things to indicate this.

If you want one glarigly obvious clue as to their intentions though, the fact that its called "The Final Problem" is a big indicator that the show is faking its own death (mirroring what ACD did with his "The Final Problem"). They already killed off sherlock internally in the story in the reichenbach fall, but now they are doing it how ACD did where he pissed off all of his fans.

If anyone seriously thinks this episode is real then I have no idea how they think television is made. Apparently scripts, sets, shots, and editing are all completely randomly generated with no particular outcome in mind and nobody who is involved with making Sherlock has any knowledge of film or television so all the references they made to horror films in this one happened completely by accident. Or they think it was done intentionally, but not as a parody/message but because they ACTUALLY want to turn their show into Saw for some reason and abandon everything they have been establishing about the characters up to this point.

They pretty much rub this into your face at the end up the episode with mary's monologue about how uncovering their characters is pointless and its the stories that matter (after showing us a completely shit and illogical nightmare with 0 characteristics of a Holmes adaptation), using shots from ep 1 and ending on a freeze frame.

The individual inconsistencies/"plot holes" of the ep are not important, they are so numerous because they do not matter individually, just collectively to illustrate that this episode works on dream logic and has no real-world connection to the events of other episodes. It's symbolic in some ways but also just a message to the viewers (like I said, they're doing ACD's final problem now)

I can go over some of the intentional symbolism they used in this ep to further stress the idea that it's fake, and I probably will because of my autism about the whole thing but for the moment I'm going to leave off here.

There's still alot of people on tumblr who like it and realize that it's a fake episode, seems like more people on tumblr realize this than people on Sup Forums

>"what the people want

The people wanted Moriarty back. You'd be surpised how many people were disappointed with him still being dead. I spent a good 20 minutes telling my sister that they made that entire sjw christmas special to completely demonstrate he was dead and she still didn't believe it.

The people are idiots, they want something despite all evidence pointing to the fact they can't have it. This is all Moffat's fault he never should have killed him.

I stopped respecting Sherlock as a character though after Magnussen. He was completely outsmarted and so just shot him, and got away with it, no consequences.

>I stopped respecting Sherlock as a character though after Magnussen. He was completely outsmarted and so just shot him, and got away with it, no consequences.

Honestly I am not as certain about this as I am about all of what I just wrote (of which i am 100% certain) but there are alot of visual indications in the episodes following the one where sherlock shot magnussen that we are still dealing with that issue.

In the ACD books, Holmes never shot anyone, not to my knowledge. So him shooting someone is a big deal.

The mganussen ep (HLV) is the one where we are shown the depths of sherlock's mind palace, when he goes down the stairs after being shot by mary and he encounters moriarty there, who in this scene represents his darkest fears. Realizing how John will miss him, Sherlock pulls himself out of this and goes back up the stairs, symbollically coming back to life.

Anyway, events in the show after this point get pretty fucking weird. He gets on the plane, and this is where we have the abominable bride episode, no? where it all is taking place in his mind. There is shittons of symbolism in that one that i dont want to take time going over, But it ends with him jumping into a waterfall. Then in the next ep, the 6 thatchers, there is water imagery everywhere. blue lighting, reflections of water on sherlock's face, they are walking around in a damn aquarium and nothing makes very much sense. It seems that we are still in sherlock's dreams. The gun that shoots mary is shown in close up, and in the next episode we are reminded of the gun again, but with different people holding it each time it appears. this ep is also full of blue light and now most of the characters are wearing shades of blue. sherlock is shown to be straddling reality and delusion. i can describe some more about this but muh character limit

Something else about the 6 thatchers is that it starts off with the idea of "doctored footage". We are shown a film projector. Film projectors continue to make repeated appearences for the rest of the season, suggesting maybe that we are still seeing an untrue version of the events unfolding. It might not even be a total dream, as in the lying detective we are shown that sherlock is somewhat in reality and somewhat not. But there is a focus on that "apointment in samara" story, about rewriting an ending that you are not pleased with in order to avoid fate/death.

I don't have a conclusive idea of what exactly is going on, but if you compare the internal logic of the s4 episodes with previous episodes, there is alot of indication that we are being shown an unreliable perspective of some kind, and I really dont think that is some kind of mistake on the part of the creators. Somebody told me I am in the denial stage of grieving for the show but I really think they've got an idea in mind with all of this. Maybe it's a shitty idea but I really doubt they are doing all of this stuff completely unintentionally. and The final problem is clearly one of these instances of unreality we have been witnessing throughout s4.

>the abominable bride episode, no? where it all is taking place in his mind.

I still can't believe they did that shit.

Go to bed, Moffat.

>I can go over some of the intentional symbolism they used in this ep to further stress the idea that it's fake, and I probably will because of my autism about the whole thing but for the moment I'm going to leave off here.

I'm interested.

While I do think they wanted a reason to do victorian era stuff for fun, I don't think it was a throwaway episode in any sense. Gatiss is a big fan of the author of What Dreams May Come and I dont think its a stretch of the imagination that he wanted to pack the abominable bride episode with alot of information to help characterize sherlock and to parallel past and future events in the show, especially if these dreams are happening when sherlock is on death's door. It really doesnt strike me as a case of writing oneself into a corner and going "and then he woke up!" but as I said I am not as sure about all of this as I am about the other things I have been ranting about here. But really i dont think most people become career writers because they dont know a fucking thing about writing.

Alright. Well, the ep opens with an eyeball, which they have already done on an episode where sherlock turned out to be dreaming. (it was probably TAB but i dont remember). That's a bit boring of an indication but its the first shot so obviously its supposed to tell us something.

After the credits we get out next indication of what is going on. Mycroft is sitting in front of a projector watching a detective movie in the middle of a character-driven scene, just like we were doing. His detective porno gets interrupted by the cheesiest most illogical scheme that consists of horror trope after horror trope. I mean really if you think after getting tranquilized by Eurus sherlock and john decided to sneak into mycroft's house and replace the footage in his film reel to say "I'm back" in a spoopy font and to rig up all of his paintings to cry blood etc etc just to get some information out of Mycroft that they already knew, I feel bad for u son. This shit ain't real.

Anyway, back to symbolism. Sherlock's very first appearence in this episode: He's wearing the stupid deerstalker that represents his public persona. Why would he wear that to his brother's house? for the lulz? No, its just a message to the viewer: This is not the real sherlock. This is the sherlock the public expects. This public persona version of sherlock has come in to interrupt mycroft's character-driven detective movie to show us a nonsensical horror show, and then the episode proceeds, doing exactly that to the viewer.

k-kino?

What the fuck was the point in episode 2 with mary constantly telling Watson to make Sherlock wear the hat? She said it like 4 or 5 times, but it never actually amounted to anything?

I don't know if I would go that far, but whatever they are doing it's clearly on purpose.

I might type up my thoughts on the ending portion of the episode in a minute

TUMBLR! WE GOT A TUMBLR OVER HERE!

You make some good points, I'm cautiously optimistic regarding a potential 4th episode.

But the creators really tread the line between creative hacks and awfully clever so forgive me if I don't put that much faith into them after the outright appalling choices they made throughout the entire season.

This theory includes episodes 1 and 2 as dreams as well right? Why would they go to such lengths to create an intentionally subpar and even inane season just for a big ruse?

three more years of fanfics for this shitshow

Well my thoughts on Mary arent fully fleshed out but I take her as a villain more than a good guy. John sees her as good obviously, so when she is speaking as as a part of his mind there is a mixture of john's thoughts and her thoughts being expressed and I'm not sure to what degree. But here, this is my thoughts on the ending of TFP and I think it goes along well with Mary being so obsessed with Sherlock wearing the hat. (otherwise i guess John just likes to fap to sherlock wearing the hat idk)

At the end of TFP we are given a monologue by Mary on another one of her magic posthumous mixtapes. If you expect me to believe that Mary recorded a really serious DVD teling sherlock to save john's life and go to hell etc and then kept the camera rolling and filmed an inspiring tear jerker vid about her "baker street boys" and asked harry potter to deliver it by owl 1 week later, then, again...i feel bad for u son. shit's fake.

Anyway, the content of her monologue is the important part, especially if you view her as more of a villain than a hero. We are shown clips of sherlck and john going back to episode 1 and the first season, and Mary tells us a very narrow and rigid definition of who sherlock and john are (ie she defines them as they were defined to us in ep 1) and then says that there is no point in asking who they "really" are because its the stories, the ""legends"" that matter (why the fuck would she call sherlock and john's life events "legends"? she been reading Holmes books in purgatory or something?), she says that they wil just carry on doing what they always do, and then she claims her ownership over them ("my baker street boys" lol) and we are given a FREEZE FRAME ending. Sherlock does not end on freeze frames. We see Sherlock and John running forward and then they get frozen in time, suspended in air mid-stride, sherlock wearing the hat iirc, and their forward development is halted in front of a building that says "Rathbone". con't

>character is complete and utter sociopath
>ending is still just "all i wanted was a friend"
They just can't help but force in soap opera drama everywhere can they?

I hope you realize you're probably putting more thought into it than the writers at this point.

So, the mesage we are given visually and via monologue is this: "Surprise! all of the character exploration and development you were following on this show throught the years is actually pointless, you might as well just go and watch the Basil Rathbone adapatations if you want to watch a modernized update of Sherlock Holmes, because that's exactly what we are doing too."

No hate to Rathbone at all, but because the Rathbone ones were also a modernized sherlock I believe that's why they picked that one to demonstrate this point.

Anyway, just a little note, Moriarty's stated goal when he very first confronts Sherlock? "I will burn the heart out of you" (and then he mentions the phrase 'the final problem' a few times). That's exactly what we just watched happen: an episode with no heart, that focuses purely on action and really shitty trolley problems. So basically we just watched an ep where the villains get what they want.

...

So with these theories in mind, do you believe they might actually make Moriarty return?

The fourth episode rumour is an entirely fictional creation by Johnlock fans in denial about their ship not becoming canon. They think that a new show called Apple Tree Yard is going to be the "real" episode of Sherlock where it's actually going to be good. Imagine being in so much denial about how shitty an episode is that you convince yourself it's an entire fabrication.

This is my favorite part, that this episode is so bad even die hard fans hate it, but rather than turn on the creators they have convinced themselves that it isn't real. I understand how holocaust deniers work now.

to be fair season 4 was surprisingly terrible

>rather than turn on the creators
Trust me, they've done both

Not sure about that; I kind of doubt it. I think he really died and now only exists in Sherlock's mind as a manifestation of Sherlock's fear of being a gay psychopathic gun licking murderer (Eurus too: like Moriarty she is """locked up""" for being a psychopath, she is a murderer and hey also she's a gay rapist which they just sorta breezed over; they had her flirting which John for absoluetly no logical reason which says to me that she is just representing Sherlock's fear that if he gets too close to anyone he loves he will be a danger to them, sherlock hates being called a psychopath and corrects people who call him that, and i think its because he is afraid of that). I do think we're going to get a 4th episode for this season, though.

>This is my favorite part, that this episode is so bad even die hard fans hate it, but rather than turn on the creators they have convinced themselves that it isn't real. I understand how holocaust deniers work now.
And that's how Silent Hill and Metal Gear Solid (Probably Resident Evil too) fans have been for a couple of years.

idk about apple tree yard but I mean it would be pretty ebin for gatiss & co to release a secret 4th episode on 22-1.

Honestly because of what I've said about The Final Problem being ACD's attempt to kill of holmes and then this episode being a pretty clear intentional nose-dive in quality to recreate the backlash of that, and despite everything mark and steve being huge ACD canon fanboys it seems like that's where this is headed.

Is it Elementary better than BBC Shercock?

>g-guys don't you get it, it's bad on purpose XD

No, it wouldn't be "ebin". It would be fucking stupid, pretentious hack shit. Stop being a tumblr fangirl.

I'd say try the first season out, if you can deal with Watson being a girl and Moriarty being Irene Adler Then you should enjoy it.

Johnny Lee Miller plays a good Holmes and uses a lot less savant mumbo jumbo compared to Cucumberbatch. Because of that the episodes are also a lot more coherent, the viewers usually know as much as the characters in the show.

Was Sherlock's friend also his brother or no? I keep getting confused about that part.

Hey user I posted on another thread earlier but I work at bbc hq in london and I can assure you there isn't a 4th episode. Honestly it just isn't possible, the only thing I can think of where they have managed to keep it under wraps is with eastenders live specials, but even then there has always always always been leaks. It just isn't feasible, but will post here again if I hear of any one offs coming up (i know that there will be a special (probs xmas) before another series)

It's fun to watch while eating.

Was his mate. Seemed like a pussy desu

nah just childhood friend.

I doubt you will read it but I already typed up all of my reasoning for why this episode is clearly fake (in that it doesnt portray 'real' events of the characters but is a message to the audience).

Just because I understand what they are doing doesnt make me a fangirl. I neither love or hate this show I just think it's pretty obvious what they are doing with it, having seen many different holmes adaptations, having read all the books, and just by knowing a basic grasp of how films and tv shows are put together and marketed.

Go ahead and provide a logical line of reasoning for why this wouldn't be what they are doing

The thing is, I'm terrified of you being correct, because then it will be the most pretentious and retarded movie in the recent history of television.

Your reasoning is pretty sound, it's just that if they actually do it, I hope that they get so many bad reviews that Moffag fucking kills himself.

see my previous post

Sorry to disappoint you, am a fan of the show too so go out of my way to know what's going on.

Alright, I'll keep that in mind.

I still find it interesting that everyone involved with making the show has been pretty silent on social media for the past few days and that the DVD release date is not until the 23rd.

*move

also you have to remember this show is handled by multiple networks and companies on a global scale, the moment any show hits that scale then it becomes impossible to maintain the levels of insane secrecy it would take to ensure something like this could actually happen.

I imagine they've been silent because a) they no longer have to promote the show so are probably enjoying a bit of time off and b) they're probably getting loads of shit from tjlc nutjobs and are waiting for that to die down.

Well, I am also still fixated on the fact that "The Final Problem" took twice as long to film as the average episode of Sherlock, and yet the product we were delivered was clearly pretty cheaply made in comparison to previous episodes. Recycled music, very plain sets, stupid explosion effect (when they have done an explosion before, and it was done rather well)

The episode just previous to this one was noticible well-made. The score was original and interesting, the visuals were great, etc. and TFP is an obvious step down in quality and yet took twice the time to film.

There was a special on PBS about the filming of TFP and we see at the end of it afterthe credits moriarty appearing and saying "Oh you thought you had seen the last of me?"

There is also a shot of that final scene they did the freeze frame on where sherlock is not wearing the deerstalker cap, which, if you follow the stuff I wrote the cap has somewhat of an important symbolic meaning.

Also, everyone involved with the show keeps stressing that the final episode is going to "make television history" "has never been done before" "if they can pull it off" etc. I really doubt they were referring to an episode consisting or recycled footage and horror movie tropes and blindingly poor special effects when they said these things.

I won't be disappointed because I was never a huge fan of this show, I'm not in denial due to having "lost" something that I care about--I'm just someone who likes Holmes-related stuff in general. I just think this is what they are doing based on what I have seen. If it turns out they aren't then nothing is lost for me.

bbc user here. Their comments in regards to tv history etc. were typical hyperbole pr comments made to get people feeding into it, happens all the time with big shows! I really think they tried to make it a "big" episode but it didn't work out too well unfortunately.

For what its worth I have no issue with anyone speculating! i do it all the time too, i go out of my way to find stuff about shows I'm into because hey if you have the means might as well make the most of them. Anyway as I said, I know there are plans for a special (touted for xmas) but there really is no secret episode dropping at the weekend.

Alright, like I said I will keep this in mind. My ideas about what's going on mean that I have to not directly take the word of anyone at the BBC for it to be correct, and you are just an user anyway, but I guess if no ep comes out on Sunday then I won't be surprised.

you obviously won't take my word for it but remember there's absolutely nothing in it for me to lie to you. If there was another hidden episode coming then I would be one of the first people shouting about it. also in regards to it taking twice as long to film that would be due to sets, locations etc.

oh and 1 more thing. if there is no ep that is going to be airing I feel pretty comfortable with the possiblity that it will just appear on the DVD instead.

The actual final problem hiatus created by arthur conan doyle lasted for 8 years; releasing the dvd on the 23rd would make the time between this final problem and sherlock's return be 8 days, but I know I'm already sounding like a crackpot here.

>there's absolutely nothing in it for me to lie to you
When the fuck has that ever stopped an user from lying?

lol what sets and locations though? It was filmed in a basement and a house

well desu it's a bit delusional but hey we all gotta get our kicks somehow. again, to clarify and confirm, there is definitely NOT another episode to be released. However, as I said before i know that there will be a special before another series, as of several weeks ago dates were being finalised.

...

ha well i am a fan of the show too, and was disappointed by the finale. Kinda feel for the people who are hoping for more so felt i should let them down now instead of them actually sitting through Apple tree yard and waiting for Sherlock to turn up.

Well, I'm glad you are providing some info, true or not.

If there's a special I'm gonna say it's going to be called The Lost Special. one of moftiss has already used that phrase once and they somewhat referenced it in an episode, and thats an ACD story that holds kind of a weird position in the canon, seems like a good opportunity to use that. But this now is pure guessing on my part that I cant assign any certainty to.

>This shit ain't real.

No, it's genre television, and thus a patchwork of hack moves for short-term impact. You are growing out of it, without wanting to, and in doing so are clutching at straws to avoid waking up from the dream of admiring it. Welcome to the adult world; you are now ready for serious culture.

also please explain this

This. Also almost every material filmed in TFP were either in wilderness/far from public or inside studio. If we imagine TFP is some sort of dream and another episode comes out (which revisits the story), then it could have been possible for them to keep the filming under wraps.

Mary's complete redemption doesn't make much sense. She is completely free to suffer any consequences of her actions. Back before s4 came out lots of people assumed she was linked to Moriarty somehow (also because of her surname "Moran", like Sebastien Moran in the original ACD). If a fourth episode indeed comes out I hope they address that.

was quite a lot of going back and forth to places. there were lots of complaints about welsh weather as far as i'm aware, it wasn't that the episode took a dramatic amount of effort, just drained time

So this is still about your hating Mary for being John's partner instead of Sherlock, isn't it?

A database error.

I've been in the "adult world" for a while now user, I'm older than the average user here and I don't watch much hack television. I'm a Holmes fan so I do watch Holmes adaptations pretty indiscriminantly. While I will sit through them just because it's Holmes stuff this one clearly has some talent behind it even if I don't like every choice they make with it (they definitely do plenty of hacky stuff, all the way back to ep 1), it's overall a well-made show on its own and as far as Holmes adaptatons go it's good on that front as well. If you watch the previous episodes and hold them up to this one it's just very clear that it's an intentional reversal of all the principles they are working off of to tell their story. I will just be repeating myself if I continue, however.

>the original ACD

You only read the stories because of the show, didn't you? You people make me puke.

that would be just a simple scheduling error. it happens all the time. In fact, if you have a tv guide magazine at hand i'd bet good money on every other page featuring some kind of similar mistake. It happens.

They haven't got any principles, they're hacks.

Threadly reminder

Watching any is still watching too much. The adulthood I'm talking about isn't merely about age.

okay and this one?

Did you forgot that she nearly killed Sherlock and the only reaction to this was: "what a quirky woman lmao of course we forgive you!"
Also explain for me the Abominable Bride please.

As an ACTUAL ACD and Sherlock Holmes fan, I would like to say your opinion is rubbish and that it is an awful adaptation of a wonderfully nuanced character. It is quite literally, at this point, completely unrecognisable from what it originally was.

The last line of that long post is superb.

The same thing.

Moffat has a tic where actual homicidal tendencies in women merge into his kink fantasies. See - every female character in Doctor Who since he took over.

I think you may be confusing me as someone else ITT who apparently agrees with me, if this is you >As an ACTUAL ACD and Sherlock Holmes fan

Not here to get in a fight over who is an ""actual"" Holmes fan but if that question above was directed at me, I read the books many years ago when I was a teenager, way before BBC Sherlock was created.

As the world's most commonly protrayed character on film, there are plenty of hacky and terrible Holmes adaptatons in existence. In comparison to those I still say that BC Sherlock is doing a decent job. Not all adaptations can be Jeremy Brett style and just copy the exact events and spirit of the books; some are going to diverge and take some creative liscense and ask some "what ifs" about Holmes that we do not find in canon. I think that's fine and I like how BBC is doing it.

>It's a Moffat starts a show off gaining wide public interest and showing real potential but then he slowly ruins it all with his terrible writing leaving only the die hard fans who are too attached to leave episode.

Seriously he should only write pilots

bbc user here. they're admin errors. easy to do especially taking into consideration specials and one offs. for example i worked for ch4 over a decade ago now, when shameless was commissioned there was a christmas special, but someone simply put it at down as episode 1 of the second series. this then caused confusion as ep 1 of series 2 was being billed as episode 2. these things happen because there's so many people who's work will touch in with the show but they're not necessarily directly involved with the show = mistakes made.

Is this the next sheev-copter?

Fuck my man, what are you smoking? I need some of that shit.

Alright, thanks for the explanation. Seems solid and sensible but as I said I'm taking everything with a grain of salt until Sunday. At any rate I'm happy to hear a special is planned, whenever its going to be released.

Big Black Cock Sherlock is not what I came here for :(

You underestimate deadlines my man. And for the love of God go and read some actual good writing if you got this much out of fucking Sherlock. Go read The Book of the New Sun or Portrait of the Artist or something.

I'm sorry user but thats what they're giving us

>new sherlock dvd is out guys
>we're gonna bang an extra special secret episode on it
>this episode shits over the whole of the series we've just aired on tv
>literally just threw out three episodes of wacky nonsense
>and now we're going to put the episode that puts it all into context whilst giving you the johnlock relationship you've all (all 12 of you) been waiting for
>so everyone who watched our series
>you just wasted your time
>and now you have to pump even more money into our ridiculous show
>GROUNDBREAKING
>MAKING TV HISTORY

>it is the source of his powers

>Go read The Book of the New Sun or Portrait of the Artist or something.

I'm just visiting from /lit/ tbqh although in general I don't come to Sup Forums much anymore these days