Agnosticism

There is no proof of a god existing, nor is there proof of one not existing, it's foolish to claim one or the other. If you claim atheist or religious, you don't value facts.

Why aren't you agnostic?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=A0iDNLxmWVM
youtube.com/watch?v=Z0tyVdnIU9A
youtube.com/watch?v=dsbj7EN1Uzs
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religions_and_spiritual_traditions
waitbutwhy.com/2015/01/artificial-intelligence-revolution-1.html
collective-evolution.com/2015/12/07/physicists-send-particles-of-light-into-the-past-proving-time-travel-is-possible/
hacked.com/venture-capitalist-explains-quantum-computers-harness-parallel-universes/
youtube.com/watch?v=DfPeprQ7oGc
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

WOAH HOLY SHIT DID YOU COME UP WITH THAT YOURSELF?

MIND = BLOWN

Good argument

>there is no proof of a god existing
prove it

Because gnosticism is way cooler. Spooky angelic critters and the soul are much more interesting and thought-provoking than just 'it could be.... Or it couldn't be....'

While half-true, (I know not what I know not), it's far superior to err on the side of God.

which is worse: being unprepared for nonexistence or being unprepared for eternity?

(I'll stick with eternity thanks)

The universe didn't just spontaneously create itself in an instant for no reason.

That's why it's only a theory

Maybe God did create it

My experiences have shown me that it's much more likely that God exists. Since I believe he exists I do my best to serve him and put my faith in him

Save and watch these videos in your spare time:
youtube.com/watch?v=A0iDNLxmWVM
youtube.com/watch?v=Z0tyVdnIU9A
youtube.com/watch?v=dsbj7EN1Uzs

These will push you towards God. Also read about Christian miracles.

>watch these youtube videos they will convert you
>Christian miracles

Because being agnostic means you don't know and it just so happens that I do know therefore I'm a gnostic.

Why don't you know?

Theist - btfo
Atheists - btfo
Agnostics - btfo

Fuck you all and get in the """""KNOW"""""

Why would something spontaneous need a reason?

>Since I believe he exists I do my best to serve him
Do you service him too with random blowjobs faggot?

Nope. Just by not chopping off heads and dealing heroin, or torturing people

>heroin
Lol
>no torture
Hello guantanamo

What's funny about heroin?

A god didn't just spontaneously create himself in an instant for no reason

inb4
> he is eternal and not bound by time, duh

Then how did he create "time" or better causality? A concept he clearly wouldn't be able to grasp, like we can grasp the concept of being non-existent

>A concept he clearly wouldn't be able to grasp

How do you know that

Being free from causality makes it literally impossible to act, think or do anything. It means you are literally never changing in any way, like an indestructuble (because that includes, that nothing can change you), immortal object.

He wouldn't be able to learn, create or generally do anything, if he really would be free from causality and by extension "time"

Why are you trying to act like you know what the creator of everything would be capable of knowing or doing?

The creator of the universe would be capable of doing anything, for example deleting all evidence that he exists

Yeah, also showing that he exists and giving you the option to believe in him or not

I guess technically I am, but then again you have to be technically agnostic about literally every single thing you know since for all you know you're le brain in le vat, but it doesn't have any practical application to your behavior.

How about believing in luck ? Looks like people divide in lucky people and unlucky...religion is a bullshit idea created to escape lynching, and atheists are fucking retarded thinking they make a difference if they attack religion everytime.

Because, we talk about concepts, like "being eternal"

If you say "he's eternal and free from causality" and later say "he created", you contradict our definition of causality.

What you are actually arguing for during the second part is, that he's on some higher plane...like a kid looking down on his Lego creation, but that contradicts the "free from causality" concept, since such a kid does act within the concept.

If you stick to such a "higher plain" thing and assume causality exists, but works different, then I wouldn't be able to go on and we would be in a stalemate, since then we enter "making assumptions about unknown concepts" area.

But we know what our concept of "causality" means and inherits.

>There is no proof of a unicorn existing, nor is there proof of one not existing, it's foolish to claim one or the other. If you claim a-unicornist or unicornist, you don't value facts.

I understand math

If you can't prove or disprove a concept, then discussing it is a complete waste of time

Being this retarded.

Agnostics are the fags that think they are going to be the "smart" ones in the discussion by avoiding to take a stance on the subject.

Face it, you have some sort of idea in your mind how the universe functions. You son`t sit around thinking "what if it`s neither". You think about the options. And to repeat myself, you`re the faggot that denies the fact that he has some sort of personal view on the subject. You just deny it.

That doesn't make any sense... Atheist unless proof is displayed makes more sense.

>Face it, you have some sort of idea in your mind how the universe functions...

but because you are finite/human you accept the fact that you don't know.

There is no proof that invisible magic space clowns walk among us, but cannot interact with us or be detected. There is no proof they do not exist.

Are you agnostic about invisible magic space clowns? Or do you simple not believe they exist?

>There is no proof of a god existing
Which means he doesn't exist.

They probably swam you faggot

They aren't fucking roaches like us. How would they swim on land?

>swam thousands of kilometers to get on a wood ship that would survive a flood.

If they could swim like that they could survive a flood.

And the ark has been dis-proven, it wouldn't survive the described the flood anyway.

>They probably swam you faggot
Why did they need to get on the ark during the flood? They can just swim anyway, so the flood ought to be no issue. Plenty of floating trees and shit to perch on when they get tired, and plenty of fish in the sea. I mean, if they can survive antarctic weather, they can survive rain for 40 days and 40 nights

To take a trivial illustration: just as a man who in a company of gentlemen made no advances, asked a warrant for every concession, and believed no one's word without proof, would cut himself off by such churlishness from all the social rewards that a more trusting spirit would earn,--so here, one who should shut himself up in snarling logicality and try to make the gods extort his recognition willy-nilly, or not get it at all, might cut himself off forever from his only opportunity of making the gods' acquaintance. This feeling, forced on us we know not whence, that by obstinately believing that there are gods (although not to do so would be so easy both for our logic and our life) we are doing the universe the deepest service we can, seems part of the living essence of the religious hypothesis. If the hypothesis were true in all its parts, including this one, then pure intellectualism, with its veto on our making willing advances, would be an absurdity; and some participation of our sympathetic nature would be logically required. I, therefore, for one, cannot see my way to accepting the agnostic rules for truth-seeking, or wilfully agree to keep my willing nature out of the game. I cannot do so for this plain reason, that a rule of thinking which would absolutely prevent me from acknowledging certain kinds of truth if those kinds of truth were really there, would be an irrational rule. That for me is the long and short of the formal logic of the situation, no matter what the kinds of truth might materially be. I confess I do not see how this logic can be escaped.

William James

The burden of proof is with the people claiming that god exists. It's not up to us to come up with proof that he doesn't exist, it's up to christians to come up with proof that he does exist. This is a classic logical fallacy.

>i personally have never encountered sufficient evidence for the existence of God
is much different from
>there is no proof of god

You can't prove morals exist, but we know they're there. Not everything can be proven scientifically. Science is about how, not why.

once it starts relating to how you live your life the god question doesn't exist in a vacuum anymore.

functionally the real question is 'are you going to live your life like the bible tells you to'? if you say no you're more or less atheist, if you say yes you're not an atheist

this whole sneaky 'i'm better than everyone because i refuse to have an opinion even though i don't go to church' thing needs to go

also when we get to this point, if you're arguing purely for the existence of god without religion, you need to define on your own terms what you think god is

so agnostics btfo, not a legitimate position

...

also this is how agnostism is actually defined lol

WHERES MY PROOFS?

>""""""""""agnostic""""""""""

you're an atheist.

I'm a Christian Agnostic Deist.

>Christian values are necessary for a happy and cohesive socoety.
>Agnosticism is an obvious requirement for any belief because of the points OP said.
>If there is a god I think he'd be the clock maker type.

Maybe I'll meet another one one day.

Show me scientific evidence for god


Also
>tumblr filename

Evidence:
>Holy Bible
>The Torah
>The Quran

It's called faith for a reason, dumbass. We know there's a possibility that there is no God, but we have faith that one day we will ascend into divinity to dwell in the Kingdom of God.

At least you're not an atheist.

>Christian Deist

This is literally an oxymoron. If you believe in the "clockmaker" God, you are not a Christian.

>Evidence:
>Holy Bible
>The Torah
>The Quran

>book that says book is true, therefore is true

faith = forcing yourself to believe something until one day you actually believe it

also here's a list of religions
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religions_and_spiritual_traditions

you've picked a subbranch of a single one of them, what're the odds you made the right choice? it's like winning lottery

It's an adjective describing the values I adhere to, not a noun referring to me. Can't I follow the teachings of the church without believing in their god?

>We know there's a possibility that there is no God
a very large portion of religious people would not agree user.

tl;dr

I don't know...muh feels.

>We know there's a possibility that there is no God,
how large is that possibility out of interest? 10%? 1%?

possibility of god = 1/infinity

Faith
noun
1.
confidence or trust in a person or thing

Point starts and ends there. I put my faith in Jesus Christ and try to follow in his footsteps. Just like I believe in capitalism and freedom to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness, and will vote based on who I think best represents those ideas, like Trump for example

Of course, but you can't call yourself a Christian

ayyy but what about my other point about the sheer number of religions that have existed?

because that's some needle in a haystack type shit

I believe in capitalism but i certainly wouldn't say I have "faith" in it. At least faith that not backed by cold hard evidence and reasoning. What would be the point?

“The Pythagorean numbers, envisaged as the principles of things, are by no means numbers as understood by the moderns, whether mathematicians or physicists…this is but one more instance of the fact that the profane sciences of which the modern world is so proud are really and truly only the degenerate ‘residues’ of the ancient traditional sciences, just as quantity itself, to which they strive to reduce everything, is…no more than the ‘residue’ of its existence emptied of everything that constituted its essence; thus these pretended sciences, by leaving aside or even intentionally eliminating all that is truly essential, clearly prove themselves incapable of furnishing the explanation of anything whatsoever.”

There's no proof I'm not fucking your mother while I post this either
Would you say you're agnostic on this issue as well?

>nor is there proof of one not existing
the lack of proof that one exist is proof enough that one doesn't

Maybe a 1% chance that God doesn't exist. Your mileage my vary.

Because I have proof God does exist, but it is not the God of the Bible.

That's quite high. Interesting.

describe this god

Kinda weird since I attend church every week but okay

what god is it and post proofs

inb4 schizophrenic

Is this from The Metaphysical Principles of the Infinitesimal Calculus?

Top post ever, BTW

>don't believe in the teaching of the church
>attend anyway

makes sense

Because all three of the sacred texts in succession (Torah, Bible, Quran) acknowledge one another and confirm the events that took place. They all descended from Abraham. So I believe that Jehova, God, Allah, etc. is the one true God. I think that the messiah has already come, but I think Islam is heresy. Not sure how else to explain it there. I would say there's more reasons that the big three have the most followers other than "JOIN OR DIE INFIDEL"

proof necessary for the existence of god = 0

number of possible gods under no proof rule = infinite.

possibility of god = 1/infinity

>Thousands of gods made up in every country
>BUT MY GOD IS THE REAL GOD BECAUSE IT SAYS SO HERE IN THIS BOOK WRITTEN BY A MAN

There's no evidence of God, but plenty of the enrmy

>leaf

I believe in many of their teachings.

>my personal knowledge of things determines whether or not said things exist

i'd say the reason they're so popular is because of how simple the basic concept is, 1 god instead of many who demands an exact list of things from you

honestly if i signed up for an abrahamic religion it'd be judaism simply because it was the earliest and hence most likely to be correct

You don't get to pick and choose

Sure I do.

Watch this: I believe in Christian gender roles but not in hell.

Then you're not a Christian. It's pretty simple.

so where do bad assholes go then?

inb4 dante'a inferno tiered afterlife

> implying all Christians take the bible literally.
Wow thats not a strawman thats a fucking wickerman

Because I don't value facts.

if you don't take it literally you're not taking it seriously

that is basically what 'cultural christianity' is

mind you cultural christianity is what should have happened, you see in other cultures that people acknowledge previous beliefs are crazy but take only the good from it (i.e japanese shinto, still make new gods to this day but don't actually believe in them)

inb4 weeb anthropology of religion is a hobby

I would like to point the scientifically minded atheists ITT to these scientific articles:

waitbutwhy.com/2015/01/artificial-intelligence-revolution-1.html

collective-evolution.com/2015/12/07/physicists-send-particles-of-light-into-the-past-proving-time-travel-is-possible/

hacked.com/venture-capitalist-explains-quantum-computers-harness-parallel-universes/

youtube.com/watch?v=DfPeprQ7oGc

TL:DR—ARTICLE 1: 98% of AI specialists believe that within 60 years we will create an artificial intelligence that is infinitely smarter than the sum of humanity. In our world, 130 IQ means genius. An AI with a 12,310 IQ and growing would never be able to be outwit by even the top geniuses of the world all working together—their combined intellect would be that of an ant compared to this mathematically inevitable, infinite AI.

ARTICLE 2: Physicists create an artificial wormhole, send a photon of light through it, and successfully have it interact with its older self. The first bit of PROOF that time travel is indeed possible.

ARTICLE 3: Quantum Computers utilize the idea of superposition and parallel universes to solve problems that could not be solved by a conventional computer, even if you gave them an infinite amount of time to try and gave them every last atom of resources in our known universe to build the computer with.

ARTICLE 4 (video): This famous "double slit" experiment shows how the mere act of observation changes reality. When light goes through the two slits unobserved, it creates an interference pattern. When you try to observe the individual particles to see what they're doing...they no longer act like a wave. The mere act of observing, changes reality. Consciousness changes reality.

Infinite intelligence, time travel, parallel universes, consciousness changing reality...all very real and proven.

CONT

True, I believe that with Christian values at heart people build better communities.

>the mere act of observation changes reality
i believe it but this has always annoyed the shit out of me

like how? are eyes magic or something lol

>it was the earliest and hence most likely to be correct
that doesn't follow.
even if that weren't a genetic fallacy, the Bible has it's final form around 300 AD, but used text at least a century older, with the first being created before 70 AD.
the talmud, whose first texts were written 200 AD, and last texts 500 AD, are clearly much younger.

some parts are meant to not be taken literally, take what Jesus says in John 10:7 for example:
"I am the door[...]"
for us to take the Bible seriously, do we have to believe that he's saying he's a literal door?

the other way round: What about the ATEIST FAITH. You trust in a Big Bang and
"random" Evolution. The first is Biggest Blunder (as said by Einstein), and the Evolution was not "random" and "local" and it can be proved.

It can be mathematically proved, that Cosmos was created, as is written in 1st ten rows of Genesis - by an accoustic wave in cold hydrogen medium from "above", being hyper-spherical, as Einstein have shown, but scientists that "corner-stone" had rejected and invented that big non-sense of Big bang.

There are more "mathematic proofs" in Bible, yet to come. Then the jews could not understand that by themselves, SOMEONE had to tell them. There is a proof of knowledge of far planets until Pluto in evangelium and it can be proven, that they could not "see" them with their equipment...

Look at Kaaba, where Muslims are playing alive statue of a Galaxy. You probably know there is a black hole in center of galaxy, you do not know yet it is 4+t-dimensional internally, and is best depicted by a black cube, arround which they are marching in a proper direction, throwing "stones" into the black-hole... Any more evident proof there was SOMEONE, who inspired Muhammad with this? Because he could not understand a galaxy by himself... And it is SO obvious...

So how about your unscientific Faith or Trust in big-bang? (You did not verify it, you just believe scientists... Some of them were mistaken, some of them are outright liars, like the WMAP team, and can show in what exactly...)

So better be at least "agnostic" yet, but politely prepare for a choice, that "they" (the Christians and partly Muslims) were mostly (but not exactly!) right and scientists were not.

yah, im agnostic, but i also dont fucking care enough to be christian or atheist, so that probably explains it

CONTINUED FROM
I ask you scientifically minded people this question—given the light of time travel, parallel worlds, super intelligence, and the effect of consciousness on reality...do you truly believe we are the first ones to harness these powers?

There is an idea in physics where if you had the power to move things atom by atom, you could indeed change one substance into another. It's physically possible, we just can't move things that small.

There is another idea that if you can change the atomic structure of things, we could replenish organs and cells forever, achieving immortality. The first article goes into this and the prior topic of transforming one element into another.

Suddenly, with immortality, time travel, transmutation, parallel worlds, and consciousness's affect on reality, all proven with scientific backing...is it truly impossible to believe that someone else got to these powers first, and is putting us through a test?

Suddenly water into wine, eternal life, and a super intelligent omniscient being must seriously be considered. This isn't sky fairy euphoria. This is science, proving the inevitability of Godlike powers.

Do you truly believe, in the infinite expanse of time...that we are the first? That the bible is...impossible?

If you're intrigued, I suggest you look up the prophecy of the last pope (it's Francis), the strange connections Obama has to the number 666 and Islam, and the strange significance of 9/23/2015.

Do not assume we know anything about this known universe. Only a fool believes he is wise.

>that doesn't follow.
you hate mohammad for doing more or less what jesus did, hijacked an initial belief system to make their own

>"I am the door[...]"
obvious metaphor but what should you even take as a metaphor? is there no correct way to interpret the thing?

There is no such thing as just "Agnostic" You're either an Agnostic Deist or an Agnostic Theist.

>as is written in 1st ten rows of Genesis - by an accoustic wave in cold hydrogen medium from "above", being hyper-spherical
whut? Where does it say that in genesis? Why is "above" in quotes?

>What about the ATEIST FAITH. You trust in a Big Bang and
"random" Evolution.
christians believe in the big bang and evolution too. Why is "random" in quotes? What's random about evolution?

Devils advocate but so anyone who doesn't take every word of the Bible word for word isn't a Christian?
Does hell not sound like the most human creation ever?
>people I don't like burn. Forever.
>people I like live forever.
>all based on the 80 years they spent on earth

you're completely right hell was made up in the medieval period to stop peasants killing themselves actually, but then if that's not right how are evil people even punished lol

I used to be agnostic, but now I'm not so sure