wtf I love Islam now?
Wtf I love Islam now?
>>>lit
The big difference between Islam and the Fremen culture is that the Fremen believe in subservience to the environment, not God.
It isn't some arbitrary mumbo jumbo about pleasing a judging deity
It's about surviving a fucking desert
>didn't read lol
wtf I love the petrodollar now!
Until Paul comes along and civilizes them by... convincing them to serve him as a God?
wtf i love lsd now
He didn't want this though
That was the point.
He stole their sincerity and their honesty
This is represented by the terraforming of Arrakis
Paul knew this and couldn't stop it. That's the real tragedy of the story.
That's why "[His] name is a killing word"
>Freman's don't worship God
They literally did. Paul was their Jesus. His son also.
wtf i spice now
Shai Hulud was real though.
The Fremen worshipped a deified version of something they saw all the time.
Something they knew
It was tangible and tied to nature.
Herbert was big about that. Why were both the Fremen and the Sardaukar the biggest bad asses in the galaxy?
Because they experienced nature and it's power.
Nature was real. Environment was real. That deserved worship and respect.
Paul stole that from them and he regretted it.
spice is a metaphor for oil
mind = blown
No, spice is a metaphor for the illusion of power
It's like water on Arrakis
The Harkonnen's believed that they had complete control because they controlled all the water.
But the Fremen didn't need them and ultimately were more powerful
The power of spice is an illusion
Like oil, I guess
spice is a word for syncans
mind = blown
What if... the true spice is bitcoin!
what if... it's trumpcoins?
and paul is barron trump?
And Mattis is Gurney?
>liet kynes organises the fremen to save up water for decades to try and terraform part of the desert to create an oasis so they don't need to lead such hard lives
>paul brings them wealth and so water so they can achieve the dream that the fremen had been following kynes and working towards for decades
suddenly
>waaaaaahhh we don't want water and plants waaah wahhhh muh desert
what the was their fucking problem?
Easy lives make pussies
People who lived hard lives hate pussies
Still haven't manged to finish either the first book or the film. Both are pretty slow and boring
>Paul knew this and couldn't stop it. That's the real tragedy of the story.
I never understood that part. since Muad'dib was the leader of Fremen, couldn't he just ordered them to not do jihad? what would happen if he just forbode them conquering other planets?
then paul wouldn't be able to feel like a poor victm
A big part of the Dune series is historical momentum
The reasons for the way things are now have existed long before any one person or event.
It's a long slow build
Like how the roots of WW2 can be found in the mid 19th century, a 100 years before the war.
Paul understood this. He saw it in his Kwiky-Mart Satch abilities
If he tried to stop the Fremen from their Jihad, someone would have continued it anyways
Maybe they'd kill him and claim a false prophet
Maybe someone close would kill him and claim it was an enemy trying to stop him
Whatever the reason.
Hundreds of years of momentum was behind the Jihad.
Paul was just the small piece that broke the dam of an unstoppable deluge, and even then, he never had any control over his life anyways
Sardaukar were soldier-convicts, what did they know about nature?
This dude is correct.
Their prison planet was an inhospitable wasteland
Only those who could survive became soldiers
The supposed Elite
The reason why the Fremen beat them was because the Fremen embraced the harshness of nature rather than just surviving it
They're meant to be a perversion of what the Fremen were
Forced to endure and survive without the respect and honour
To the living Fremen the oasis was just an idea, something that would be accomplished 5 or however many generations hence. Paul brought it quickly and suddenly it was upon them enacting radical change in their culture. It happened too fast.
More metaphorically, it's about how dreams should always be unattainable
It's not the dream that matters.
It's wanting the dream
Once you have it, it doesn't really have any value any more
I like this guy. Most articulate summary I've heard.
Well, I'm a millenial and I thought it was petrol
Paul allowed the Jihad and knew what would happen though. He allowed it because that was how he built the empire and gained so much power.
He hated himself for it though
That's why he became a hermit after and died being a nobody
Many machines on Ix
I never read God Emperor of Dune. Should I?
Yeah he did it to tear down the old system of power to create his own. He couldn't live with it and was emotional, thus his mistakes in book 2 falling into the conspiracy. Leto II, however had the balls to rule.
Yes, definitely
It's the last good book of the series
>Kwiky-Mart Satch
I read the first three as an omnibus but Paul's death and Leto's anime bullshit meant I never picked up the fourth book.
That's fair.
Leto goes even beyond the anime in God Emperor
It's even kinda disgusting
Worth reading though.
God Emperor is by far the best one, so yes.
The whole series is literally about Leto. The first three books are nothing but an incredibly entertaining grounded prelude to God Emperor.
FATHERRRRRR!!
I'd agree to this
Should I read the first three then?
Didnt they wage a jihad on a bunch of planets and fuck shit up?
The spice must flow!
Of course
Dune is one of the top 10 sci-fi books ever written
61 billion lives lost and 91 planets destroyed IIRC.
The reasoning for the sardaukar inferiority is given plainly in the book.
It's not about living in tune with nature or anything like you say, it's about the sardaukar by means of their success being separated from the environment that caused that success.
But does anything happen in the first 3? Because the writing so far is nothing special desu
worth
That and a false sense of superiority compared to the rest of the major house forces. They had the support of the emperor and name alone was enough.
So Dune is about how the Abrahamic religions are inferior to animism?
Yes.
Not really
It's more making a Spenglerian point about cyclical rise and fall of civilizations; the decadent old empire was destroyed by the flood of vital, energetic yet barbaric Fremen
One of my favorite parts of God Emperor was Idaho freaking out at the fake fremen having improperly equipped stillsuits. They hadn't needed to use them in thousands of years so they forgot how to live the fremen way.
That's because Paul turned away from the whole god-emperor thing, he was too cowardly for the final leap, he cared too much about his humanity.
Leto II, who never had much of his own personality due to other memories influencing his actions, didn't guard his sense of self so jealously.
i circlejerk Herbert (and some of his other works seemed really good too like The White Plague) a lot, but it is pretty agreed that his prose isn't amazing and can be clunky
i'd say that the strongest strength the Dune series has is world-building like people clamor over GRR Martin for
and god help me but after the 3rd go-thru on the series, I ended up liking Chapterhouse the best
Cool.
The fourth isn't worth much if you don't go into with context
Herbert doesn't give a shit about teaching you about the world.
You just gotta be there and experience it to know what's what.
In part, that's how it's charming. It's not written in a way for people of our universe. It's a story from that universe. We're just reading it
A little bit?
It's more about practicality and survival
The entire thing is about survival
Leto II's big thing is the Golden Path
The one future where humanity survives and lives beyond the collapse of the interstellar kingdoms
Dune is a book about deep Ecology.
Basically the entire point is about how these seemingly worthless barren wastelands provide the fuel. Arrakis couldn't produce spice without the desert and the horrible sand worms. These barrens don't just provide the 'oil' or material fuel but also the spiritual fuel, they create the hard men and heroes the human race craves.
It's also a warning that the heroes can be worse than the villains. Barron Harkonnen for example was a massive piece of shit, totally evil, completely cruel. So was Shaddam. But neither of them caused anything even in the ballpark of horrors that Muad'dib and Leto II ultimately inflicted upon humanity. But they did what they did because in the end that suffering too is fuel for humanity. Leto forced the race to build up energy, then explode out into the galaxy at large.
For thousands of years before the first books, there was little real human advancement, humans occupied but a tiny part of the galaxy and did not progress much technologically. Then after The Scattering we see all kinds of crazy tech shit, finally synthetic spice exists, the matres, Futars, the no-ship, ect.
The first book can feel like a drag to read at times, but second book goes pretty fast. I would recommend reading the third simply because it's a kind of the origin story of the god emperor.
imagine a timeline where jods dune was made and star wars was never made
and consequentially are we now in the right or wrong cinematic timeline
Jods' Dune would have been a fucking acid trip barely recognizable
>and god help me but after the 3rd go-thru on the series, I ended up liking Chapterhouse the best
Wew. Why?
>and god help me but after the 3rd go-thru on the series, I ended up liking Chapterhouse the best
It's not bad. My ranking is Messiah > Chapterhouse > God Emperor > Dune > Heretics > Children
If the other timeline has no Star Wars we're obviously in the wrong one.
yeah would have been good innit
this chap knows the truthings
might have been the honored matres in general; i do vividly recall being intensely upset at God Emperor in general upon reading it for the first time as well
overall i just dug Teg's shenanigans and Murbella as a character, maybe what I enjoyed most was the depiction and description of the chapterhouse planet
i'm down with this list, i think i agree wholly. especially Children at the bottom.
as always everyone forgets the spice, Fremen were OP af, the Sardukar never stood a chance
same it is the best, except theirs nothing after it, but Tegs rampage is easily the best thing in Dune
>imagine a timeline where jods dune was made
why? this is easily the better timeline, jodo was recognized as a drug addled hack and his few good ideas we're reworked into better films like say, terminator and alien
>islam
>I love islam now
Did you even read the book?
No its real power. The fremen gained the upper hand when they shut down production of spice. Spice is vital to space travel so it caused a huge problem when it got taken away
You don't fool me Shaitan. SpaceIslam is directly responsible for the survival of the human race.
they didn't force their 'religion' on anyone, it was pure imperialism, much closer to the mongols, they didn't want anyone else being part of their religion they just wanted to rule
100 pages in right now
> According to Muad'Dib, conservative estimates ranked the Jihad's casualties as 61 billion lives, the sterilization of ninety planets, and the "demoralization" of five hundred additional worlds. Furthermore, 40 different religions were wiped out along with their followers.
Boom. Prophesied.
I remember a quote from the book that said something like that about the Spice and the Fremen that could make a chain-reaction with the Little-makers :
>If you have the power to destroy it, then it's yours.
meh those religions were terrorists, as long as they towed the line people were free to worship w/e they wanted the OCB was still going strong into Leto II reign
I love that quote
Because it's true of everything
If you can destroy a thing, you control a thing
For the average person, it's about relationships
If you have a relationship with someone, if you care the least, then you have power of that relationship
If you can destroy something, it doesn't matter whether you do
no its a massive water of life cache over a spice blow that chain reactions the spice, thats the threat paul holds over the landsraad, he can destroy all spice production at will
Guys is it ever explicitly stated that the spice is worm poop? I haven't read in years, and I may have stolen this from some essay online. But isn't the "pre-spice mass" a fart and the spice is poop? So when the worms die later on in the books that's why the spice doesn't flow.
More like some sort of sputum, like honey from the bees.
I was just thinking about this, no I don't think so, they burn up every bit of everything, no waste until death, IIRC
you really shouldn't be ITT
I read the series last year.
The spice is essentially worm eggs/spunk. It's how the worms of dune pro-create.
That's why the navigators of the Spacers Guild turn into worm bodied freaks or mutate when ingesting years of spice.
Everyone is getting high off worm semen.
>That's why the navigators of the Spacers Guild turn into worm bodied freaks
That was movie OC, breh.
I haven't read Dune but I know some of the nerd trivia.
Is being an advanced navigator supposed to shit or fun? I mean, sure it looks horrible from the outsider normie perspective, but you're basically a higher being neet. You get to see shit no one else could even comprehend.
aren't the navigators really reclusive in the books because the are so heavily mutated?
this is correct. i have no idea what the movie is like though
nah, their freaks in the books too, just didn't look like that, they swum around in vats of melange tho
They're reclusive because they're trapped in spice trance half the time. Advanced navigators like Edric in Dune Messiah looked something like fish men as the huge doses of melange slowly mutated their bodies, but they also had regular looking guys with eyes so blue they were black showing how deep their addiction was.
...
Spacers Guild are Math Autists, so that shit is probably awesome to them.
dude a shit
Was it kino?
Which is in no way an allusion to Muhammed converting animists to monotheism.
>animists to monotheism
more like polytheism to monotheism