Catalonia

Is there any valid reason for Catalonia NOT so secede from Spain? If they want freedom, they should get it imho.
I get the spanish perspective, but what's in it for the Catalans if they stay?

Nothing spaniards know they have nothing to offer so they resort to insults and violence like savages

majority doesn't even want to secede from Spain and most people didn't bother to vote
what they are trying to do is not representative or legitimate

This, also us catalans have been fucked for years by Spain and no one wanted to change that since the times of the republic. So why would we stay?
t. Catalan living in Uruguay

40 percent wants independence. 60 doesn't but they must not really care as much if they dont bother voting.

This is a worksafe board you doublenigger stop posting Spaniards.

Then why don't they vote for no independence? It's as easy as that.

they don't vote because it doesn't have any legitimacy, the spanish governemt should have just let them be and ignore the result

I forgot to add even the people who dont want to leave still want the vote to happen. The majority does want the referendum.

First: because it's illegal
Second: because it's been made up by separatists to legitimate themselves

Anyone who is against independence should not take part of this scam.

Catalans are really scummy, I did not want to believe the memes untill I had to interact with some

But it does have legitimacy, however that doesn't necessarily mean that the referendum is legal

>because it's illegal
So what? They could have voted no, by not voting they are legitimating the referendum. It's just stupid

It'd be like London seceding because they contribute more to the economy.

Yeah no shit, but that is due to historical reasons and past investment from other regions.
Catalonia (or London) wouldn't be what they are today without the rest of the country.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

>by not voting they are legitimating the referêndum
That's not how it works, bro.

But London doesn't have a different language, culture and history than the rest of England. You are forgetting that Catalonia is a nation

Because it's Spanish clay, everyone from Spain should get a voice in the matter. I support Catalonia in self determination but I don't support them taking Spanish clay.

Spain fought and won and nurtured that part of Spain, everyone in Spain should have a say not just the people who live there.

Maybe I didn't explain myself correctly, I meant that by the democratic nature of the referendum they could have voted no perfectly and btw there have not been any attacks to no voters but there have been even stabbings to people on favor of the referendum

I wonder when will we human be united in one banner of one country?
i just want an earth federation with autonomy laws

Fuck off with the lies. We are out.

>everyone from Spain should get a voice in the matter
Dude, no. If a someone in a couple wants to have a divorce doesn't need to ask the other part if they let them get their shit and get the hell out of there. In this case it is the same
So you are telling me that they need a majority to win the referendum? I don't get your point

Not sure I'd be happy with 261 million Indonesians voting on mutual laws.

The independentists want to have over 2.65 million votes for yes because there are 5.3 million people allowed to vote, they will count all the people who didn't vote as 'no'.

I don't like the developing world-tier self-victimisation the Catalonians are showing.
This is what you get for organising an illegal, unilateral separatist movement. The Scottish people were civilised enough to do it properly. Seems like these Iberians can't.

>It's illegal to have a gathering in order to vote and see what the people want
The wonders of democracy. The spanish government really fucked this up, they could have let it happen and then the clande would have died, but now that they blew on in the spark is getting brighter and brighter. Extrapoints for the defenders of democracy vandalizing the "MORE DEMOCRACY" slogan.
I totally support Catalonia, I hope for it to become an unstable nation so anarchist can kill the upper class.

It doesnt work like that bro, they will count the people who voted no as "no votes" But the rest of the people who didn't vote don't count for shit dude
>Scottish people were civilised enough to do it properly
We have been trying to do it the good way ffor years faggot
This, just look for what happened in Scotland

Are you retarded?

thats because you are equating it to marriage. What if I equate to a strata
Complex where one suite wants to unilaterally leave the strata? Both analogies don't work. This is a sovereign country we are talking about not a marriage or a strata.

lol spics

>لكن لندن لا تملك لغة وثقافة وتاريخا مختلفا عن بقية إنجلترا.

>You are forgetting that Catalonia is a nation
No it isnt.

t. no culture

LMAO
>Catalonia
>Different country

Man they share all the history with the rest of the former kingdoms

Even it's been always favoured by the central governments when it comes to investments, so please read or don't talk without having any clue about what's going on.

It's all about economic reasons, although they try to portray themselves as a """"nation""""

That's how the independentists want it to go, the catalan government may try to get more power any way they can but the catalan people know that to be taken seriously they need to count the people who didn't vote as no. However a lot of votes have already been taken away by police so the Catalans must be getting more desperate.

National and regional laws regarding the organisation of a referendum weren't respected in this case. Then, Rajoy overreacted by sending riot police to beat up old people.

So are Sorbs, Kashubians, Rusyns, Kalmyks, Sicilians or Székelys. International law does not apply to national independence because "m-muh feelings". Either you win independence by armed revolt (Croatia, BiH) or you must reach an agreement with the oppressor country first (Scotland, South Sudan). This was neither. If you declare independence unilaterally (Northern Cyprus, Abkhazia, Somaliland Kosovo, Biafra...) it is unlikely that you will get any recognition.

He didn't said different country, stupid retard.

Question to people who want Catalonia to secede:
Was Dixie in the right?

Nice optics, Faildrid!

Why would you think that? Explain yourself.
Care to explain? English is my second language and I don't really understan what you mean. Sorry :(
Inmigrant muslimes haven't lived for millenia in London, however the catalonian people has existed and lived there for ages.
Well, you are wrong:
>defines a nation as:

A people, or aggregation of men, existing in the form of an organized jural society, usually inhabiting a distinct portion of the earth, speaking the same language, using the same customs, possessing historic continuity, and distinguished from other like groups by their racial origin and characteristics, and generally, but not necessarily, living under the same government and sovereignty.
What of all this doesn't apply to Catalonia?
Nation=/=Country man, and what does it matter if we share history with all the kingdoms? Are you forgetting that we joined Spain by our own wil?l The Catalonian people should get out of Spain if our intstitutions, culture, and rights are not respected.

how can you say it has legitimacy if it's unconstitutional and proven that it is heavily rigged and that people voted as many times as they wanted?

doesnt spics has mexico?

Catalonia would be completely buttfucked and at the mercy of the EU which would not support it.

But Spain has dealt with this issue like a fucking third world nation and for that I’d like to see them get what’s coming. And it would I’ve them something more important than Gibraltar to worry about.

Let's be honest though, their motivation is because they have a strong industry and contribute more to the country than they receive.

They are selfish.

NORTH CAROLINA MENTIONED!!!!!!!!!!!!

>be spain
>invest massive amounts of money in improving the infrastructure and economy in catalonia since it's in a strategic geographical position
>they thank you by fucking you over and seceding

hope scatalan subhumans starve to death in their new country with a non-existent economy because no one wants to trade with them.

yep.
fuck Castile Imperialism.

What will? You were subjects to Aragon, remember? Catalonia had never a say.

How much of the economy is going to be seriously hampered by leaving the EU (leaving temporarily) and all the other shit that comes with independence?

Montreal used to be Canada's business capital and then after the referendums tons of shit moved to Toronto.

>Catalans must be getting more desperate.

Not at all, the local gov will count it as a blatant success even if the votes don't reach 1M (because MUH FIERY DETERMINATION UNDER OPRESSION).


Western Extremadura reasoning at its best.

Either nation. There's no Catalan nation you communist.

FUCK SPAIN AND FUCK WHITE PEOPLE

>Reeeee Britain oppresses Scotland
>Scotland is allowed to have a peaceful independence vote

I hope pro-independence Scottish folk see what REAL oppression looks like.

>a lot of votes have already been taken away by police
Not really, iirc only 300 ballot boxes were seized
>National and regional laws regarding the organisation of a referendum weren't respected in this case
We couldn't use those laws because the central gov't didn't allow for the referendum to happen in the usual legal courses, I get what you mean, and in this case we had to find our way around the prohibition by the gov't about the referendum.
Also I get your point, and don't really disagree with you. We tried to do it "Por las buenas" when the central gov't had no intention to dialogue, so I think we didn't take the right course of action because of fear to end like Kosovo. I agree with you almost 100 percent
That's why the central gov't should have let the referendum happen by the usual means, entirely their fault. However if it was indeed rigged there should be actions taken

>(leaving temporarily)
Each EU nation has the power to Veto a nation joining, what makes you think Spain would ever allow Catalonia to join?

That's entirely true, it wouldn't be the first time that Europe has fucked us over
>improving infrastructure
Read about the mediterranean corridor, the central gov't wanted to go almost anywhere but in Catalonia and think about it.
>No we weren't the catalano aragonese crown allowed us catalans to keep our institutions and shit but we shared a king with them, I think you are wrong
Sure thing buddy

I'm sure there would be pressure on Spain to allow them by Germany/France. Either way, even temporarily it's going to fuck their economy significantly.

> Are you forgetting that we joined Spain by our own wil?
u wot m8? Spain was born because your sovereign, the king of Aragon, married our sovereign, the queen of Castile and León, then she died and your king was left as the first joint ruler of the new nation. We weren't asked and you weren't asked. Sovereignty didn't rest on the people or the institutions, but on the king's person. It was the Renaissance, not the best time for bleeding heart liberal democracy.

Don't forget that the first people to rebel against the birth of the Spanish empire were the Castilians.

I'm saying a countries sovereign affairs cannot be condensed into a simple concept like marriage. We need to look at the situation as it is. The clay belongs to Spain as a collective whole because Spaniards have collectively nurtured that region. If one part wants to leave then all Spanish people should have a say on what to do with Spanish clay.

>We have been trying to do it the good way ffor years faggot
So have the Scots. Since 1296. Catalonians also keep constantly whining about Franco who died in 1975. You don't see Estonians blaming every little thing that might be shit in their country on the Soviet Union which has only been dead since in 1991.

>Let me tell you about your country

>Since 1296.
Meant 1603 btw :^)

> because the central gov't didn't allow for the referendum to happen in the usual legal courses
That's bullshit and you know it's bullshit. There was no possible referendum because there weren't enough pro-referendum seats in the Catalan parliament. Full stop. They were 21 seats short if I'm not mistaken. I understand that you guys believe you're an oppressed nation à la Balkans under devshirme, or Tibetans in China, but that's not the point.

> catalano aragonese crown
my sides

t.1/8 catalan,4/8 nigger,1/8 andalusian,2/8 italian nigger

I don't want to trigger Perfidious Albion but if we Catalans finally secede the Treaty of Utrecht, Seville and Paris wouldn't be valid thus creating a diplomatic shitstorm.

I kinda get your point and stand corrected
I get your point but being a state the political association of all the citizens on her territory, why those citizens shouldn't be able to re-associate themselves in another political way they find better?
Okay, so what? The age of a movement doesn't mean they are not right, are you telling me that we should wait 300 more years so we can decide our future? No thanks
I'm a catalan living in Uruguay, get your point tho, however this is not the case
>weren't enough pro-referendum seats in the Catalan parliament
Not true, there is a majority of seats in the catalan parlament, that's why we have a pro independence president. Also, yes, there was a Catalano-Aragonese crown faggot
Yeah, whatever moron

>It'd be like London seceding
No it wouldn't you dumb anglo.

It would be like Québec.

>Yeah, whatever moron
>2006
>heey che viva Italia soy italiano
>2010
>Viva España hemos ganado el mundial boludo
>2013
>Blacks life matter #dab
>2017
>Free Catalonia
You are just like your country.A joke

The integrity of the nation-state should be paramount. The costs of independence now seriously outweight the benefits of staying as an integral part of spain.

>Getting independence so you can later join the EU to get ruled from Brussels
Catalonians are literally madmen

>another thread ruined by a MUH HERITAGE faggot

they can't even join the eu too

Get rekt

Ah yes, the industrial powerhouse that is Quebec, 34% of Canadian exports. Oh wait no that's Catalonian exports.

> there is a majority of seats in the catalan parlament, that's why we have a pro independence president
A simple majority isn't enough to call for a referendum according to Catalan law. CUP didn't care and called for the removal of Mas and the celebration of a referendum in exchange for allowing right-wing nationalists form a govenrment. That's what got the ball rolling.
> there was a Catalano-Aragonese crown
t. Ass, Your (2017), J. Invented Historical "Facts" 24:818-823

>they can't even join the eu too
I know but somehow they think they will somehow get into the EU.

Plus, if they actually get into it, since they are one of the most developed regions in the region, they will most likely get not handouts.

shit comeback
you could just say Estonians don't blame Stalin for their problems because they acquired their sovereignty

Why is Peru so repressive with their fellow countrymen whom talk quechua over spanish?

the absolute madmen

>Catalano-aragonese crown

Opinion discarded

You know nothing and I never ever felt repressed in my life.

>34%
You pulled that number out of your fucking ass

They have autonomy in their region as far as the Spanish constituion allows them. If they want more automy to the degree where they can collectively govern that piece of land without the consent of the Spanish people is what I disagree with. Asking for more autonomy or political powers is fine, that's the way the political process works. But I strongly disagree with one group of persons taking something for themselves that belongs to the collective whole.

Carles Puigdemont just said Catalonia has won it's right to independence.
It's on folks.

Because Spanish is the superior language

...

and then you send in the paramilitary to beat up the population ruining any argument you ever had.
bravo spain

los nacionalistas no quieren sudacas en cataluña subnormal y encima los defiendes?

tu = sudaca
yo = catalan no indepe que sabe lo que habla

>ruining any argument you ever had
What? Are there so many nu males in Germany or are you just trolling? Law enforcement is legit

>Okay, so what? The age of a movement doesn't mean they are not right, are you telling me that we should wait 300 more years so we can decide our future? No thanks
I'm just saying that the whole idea of Catalan independence looks very naive, gullible, and without much basis. The comparisons some of the pro-Catalan people keep making, equating the situation to some of the ex-Soviet states is ridiculous.
The whole debacle resembles teenage angst on regional level to me.

You are against freedom and democracy.

Yeah, Uruguay is kind of a joke but I am Catalan for fuck's sake I have been born there, I lived there most of my life so pls go and stay go.
>integrity of the nation-state should be paramount
Ironic that you say that being a country that got his own independence from Spain by rebelling againtst its crown
If it was for me I wouldn't join it, but hey, that's how democracy works
Again, we couldn't "use" that law so I guess they didn't give much of a crap and called it anyway but I get your point.
The Catalano aragonese crown existed, because they joined the Aragonese crown by a dinastic union under the same sovereign so they are the same thing
No one called you so whatever
Okay, but remember that the Catalan people tried to change its "estatut" and got fucked over by the central gov't so they tried to find another way around, in this case secession
Por esa clase de cosas nos queremos ir, ¿sabías?
>equating the situation to some of the ex-Soviet states is ridiculous
Care to explain? Also, yes it is kind of naive but I can't really blame them
>whole debacle resembles teenage angst on regional level
You are not that far away from reality you know?

>Yeah, Uruguay is kind of a joke but I am Catalan for fuck's sake I have been born there,
you arenot sudaquita.

>law enforcement
too bad it wasnt the police they sent.
it was easy as fuck to discredit the vote without any violence and painting the ruling party as communists who try to destroy democracy by turning catalonia into a one party state.

your own agencies would manipulate a vote of independence of cali instead of sending in some riot police.

>different language, culture and history
Are you fucking serious?

>"Nos queremos ir".
Tu quien eres, el representante de todos los catalanes?
Ah no, solo eres el mentiroso barretinas. Y encima serás charnego.

Watch out that edge dude, you might poke an eye out

FUCK ALL CENTRAL GOVERNMENTS

SECESSIONISM FOREVER

PURGE CATALONIA OF THE SPADMISH PIGS AND RECLAIM YOUR BIRTHRIGHT BY FORCE!

Catalonia would have a trade deficit (a huge one by the way) if it wasn't for the Spanish trade.The generalitat are just being retarded as always

>too bad it wasnt the police they sent.
GN and GC are police corps you fucking idiot

Mira que eres pesado eh
Els catalans tenim una llengua diferent a la espanyola, encara que sigui similar a causa de tota la repressio lingüística durant la nostra historia.
Charnego tu puta madre y aunque tienes algo de razon, no soy nadie. Dejadnos votar y veremos que quieren los catalanes.

Silly gaijin doesn't know about PP political campaign.

After this you can bet your whitey ass all them rednecks in Spain whom live off unemployement benefits and 1.50euro red whine will vote them because in their mindset they are the only ones capable of keeping national unity