Will China ever be free?

Will China ever be free?

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businessinsider.com/these-chinese-cities-are-ghost-towns-2017-4)
forbes.com/sites/wadeshepard/2016/03/30/how-people-in-china-afford-their-outrageously-expensive-homes/#3ec66565a3ce
forbes.com/sites/wadeshepard/2017/06/30/ordos-chinas-most-infamous-ex-ghost-city-continues-rising/
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Posting night time pictures of the wealthy areas of Chinese mega-cities doesn't mean that China is a developed, civilized country. On the inverse, many of these "cities" are barely populated at all (businessinsider.com/these-chinese-cities-are-ghost-towns-2017-4) and merely propaganda projects to deflect from the horrid poverty and working conditions most Chinese still live in.
Even if everything you posted was as great as you think it was, economic development doesn't compensate for the lack of freedom and liberty in China.

There are large ghost cities but the fact is that China's population is becoming increasingly urbanized. Proportion of home ownership among young people is actually higher than any Western country.
forbes.com/sites/wadeshepard/2016/03/30/how-people-in-china-afford-their-outrageously-expensive-homes/#3ec66565a3ce

The point of those cities are not to serve as potemkin villages, but to accommodate a growing population. That said, whether or not these cities are properly built or planned is open to question.

What do you mean by "free"?

When Russia dropped Communism, was it truly freed?

Currently, China's government and the CCP are more or less one and the same; to some extent, the PLA is as much the armed wing of the CCP as it is the armed forces of China. The only thing that you can count on in the foreseeable future is continuity of the CCP in one form or another.

>economic development doesn't compensate for the lack of freedom and liberty in China

au contraire

>>economic development doesn't compensate for the lack of freedom and liberty in China.

dunno dude, they seem okay with it. this statement actually kind of bothers me. i'm sure there are some really piss poor countries out there that are okay with having some of their rights restricted if they could put food on the table of have a roof over their head. i don't think all countries are ready for democracy.

It's doing better than Venezuela though

Chinks are like ants, they need order and hierarchy. They can't handle freedom.

Hong Kong is hardly representative of China

>Will China ever be free?
it's more free than the US will ever be

the current system just works too well, and with Xi's current moves they may be heading towards a more personal Autocracy in the style of Deng Xiaoping or Lee Kuan Yew as opposed to the more technocratic system they have now.

frankly considering how dire Western democracies are, I can't blame them for not finding it attractive.

>Lee Kuan Yew
What does Sup Forums think about him? To me he seemed like a sociopathic madman who wanted to play SimCity in real life.

>many of these "cities" are barely populated at all
false
maybe 10-20 years ago, but forward thinking back then has paid off now as these cities are being filled up nicely with all amenities already present.
its very intelligent thinking and something Germany has done as well, though the issue being German politics makes the process a lot slower and harder
I respect him immensely, he did what was necessary and did so without the taint of ideology, he was pragmatism incarnate, and more than that he turned a backwater 3rd world port with a hostile northern neighbour and zero resources into a global financial power and fully developed nation, all under his tenure.

there is a reason Chinese officials would pay their respects to him year after year, now they seek to emulate his ideas, as does Vietnam and may other countries.
I'd call him the grandfather of "new" Continental Asia

>ghost cities
This meme started as a misunderstanding by Al Jazeera. They wandered into a city with no people and assumed it was a paper city. It misunderstands China's urban planning policy that involves rapidly building an entire city then getting rural people in through the hukou system.

forbes.com/sites/wadeshepard/2017/06/30/ordos-chinas-most-infamous-ex-ghost-city-continues-rising/

No one is truly free, especially not Americans. I think the Chinese should pursue being safe first of all, put an end to those +1000 yearly executions.

>his government isn't a single man playing SimCity straight for 30 years

China will rule

THE EARTH


CHINA WILL DOMINATE

AMERIMUTTS WILL TREMBLE

HAIL CHINA

DEATH TO USA

Chinese people will be Americans soon enough :^)

>especially not Americans

Those Marxist youth camps really pay off I guess.

canadian people will be chinese soon enough :)

Creep.

Chinese are forecast to decrease in population in Canada because they have a lower fertility rate than anyone else. Maybe you dicklets shouldn't have gone full Japan? :^)

>economic development doesn't compensate for the lack of freedom and liberty in China.
Chinese, you know, the people who make up China, seem to disagree with you.

wtf

>When Russia dropped Communism, was it truly freed?
Yes. Not for long but yes.

Is there any hope for democracy in Asia? Many governments seem keen on continuing their oppressive regimes as long as economic development is maintained. But many workers in these countries are working slave labour and in terrible conditions. Why don't they demand more rights?
No. The only way Russia could be free is if the New Union Treaty was enacted and the Soviet Union became democratic based on internal reforms. What actually happened was tantamount to a coup by oligarchs looking to sell off the country for a quick buck.

maybe in a few decades, but that's the problem with western perception. you guys may look at this now and think how terrible it is but haven't stopped to think how terrible things were before all of this.

>a coup by oligarchs looking to sell off the country for a quick buck
Even if that were so, the people were free as in free to pursuit what they wanted to do and definitely free-er than during communism.

Democracy is bad.

my descendant :)

Yes, China won.

Nice!

Ian Bremmer is quite anti-China (as any hawkish liberal would be) but he expects China to be the dominant power by the 2020’s.

I personally appreciate his edgy analyses. Not too surprised to see this in Time Magazine.

>China to be the dominant power by the 2020’s

>any hope for democracy in Asia?
>look at India who couldn't even settle on a tax system
>china that get job done
Not hard to see that democracy is terrible.

>he expects China to be the dominant power by the 2020’s
Please no. By all means I don't think America is some morally righteous nation, but all the other potential superpowers are corrupt, third world, strife with extreme poverty, etc. If these nations reformed and westernized, I wouldn't mind so much, but for now, I'd much rather stick with the lesser devil that I know, than the greater evils unknown.
Is this part of some eastern mindset that I don't understand as a westerner? We value liberty, freedom, and democracy in the west, but in Asia it seems like most of the people couldn't give a damn if they could be "disappeared" for writing a negative facebook post. Maybe Enlightenment ideals will spread to Asia as they become more industrialized and on par with the West in development.

China is too racist, xenophobic, and authoritarian to be a dominant power.

Thats actually a good thing
The problem is they're soulless cultureless commies

Freedom is a meme, Yanks are too ignorant about anything outside of it. Everything is either good or bad, right or wrong to them. Americans aren't even truly free, they are slave to the Jewish banks and media, and too superficial to see anything beyond the outter layer.

Free from what? Ah you mean free to be degenerate like America? Then I hope they won't.

looks like india will be fighting china for the superpower by 2030 spot

Its free from amerishart menace

Enlightment values do not work in Asia.

Look at Japan. We are occupied by the US who force upon us their values, but in daily life we value collectivism and conformity above all. Every single Japanese is ready to sacrifice his freedoms and even his human rights for the sake of societal harmony - or is made to do it through intense peer pressure and horrible bullying that can drive one and one's family to suicide.

If it doesnt work in Japan, it will never work in China and the rest of Asia.

We chose collectivism because it was successful in securing our survival for thousands of years. A young nation such as the USA cannot understand it, and Old Europe whose "human rights" and lofty ideals were based on the slavery of the 3rd world who provided ready resources and labour and nowadays markets to supply the commodities and income to finance their luxury lifestyles, will also never understand.

The West has nothing to teach us. For Westerners, we should just east cake if we dont have any bread to eat.

The post WW2 chaos, the communist insurgency, looming threat of race war and extremists, race based politics and education where everyone are nazis on top of communist insurgency till the late 80's.
I'd take a good night sleep over that chaos due to some jackass riling up people and few would care if the jackass get indefinite preventive detention.
Just like other countries have coups where army takes matters into their own hand we have laws that give the police infinite power to detain anyone deemed threat to national security.
Talk shit get hit, we have a proverb that basically means 'the body suffers from the action of the mouth'.

Democracy results from long-term compromises intended to attain limited political goals. China, by the very nature of its government, cannot engage in compromise, and, at least presently, would accrue no benefit from doing so. If anything, past events in both China and ex-Soviet states have convinced them that the slightest political compromise is unacceptable.

India is seriously hindered by a lack of natural resources, regional differences, and an ineffective central government. Literacy is also well below global average as well.

>China, by the very nature of its government, cannot engage in compromise,

Which is wrong, as China's government through the nature of its factions, interest groups and internal debates on policy implementation always is engaging in compromise.

Just because you cant see it because their politics isnt a reality show as in the West, doesnt mean that they cant or wont do it.

Think of Game of Thrones and imagine that you are not the audience, but a ordinary peasant. Ask yourself how much of the internal intrigues and debates and compromises and political horse-trades you would be able to witness.

The average person in my country doesn't care about freedom, and so do the Chinese.

>all these communist shills
I want all socialists to leave, now.

freedom aint free.

but you dont care, since america was always good in making others pay that price for you.

This.

>all these fools concerned with mortal kingdoms
Yeah a lot of good those are going to do you against the demonic armies of the apocalypse.

What I meant by compromise is along the lines of political concessions, like granting rights in exchange for favours or support. The route towards open debate of politics was effectively shut down after Tienanmen Square, and is unlikely to be reopened in the conceivable future. Since then, all debate is internalized within the party itself. You can have multiple factions and interest groups, but all of them are commonly concerned with the continued survival and dominance of the party in the Chinese political system.

They are not granting rights in exchange for loyalty, but effectively improving living standards to do it.

Under Xi, local officials get grades and promotions based on their poverty alleviation performance, while before it was just for good GDP data.

Sure, the people are not represented in the political system, but the power of the CCP still relies on their passive support and acceptance - which is why they are actually doing so much to improve livelihoods and living standards. If it was jsut about the survival of an elite, they could just go full North Korea route.

Let's just say that the authoritarian government is possessed by a warped sense of mission and duty, which is partly based on the experiences of seeing other communist countries fall, as well as confucian principles of the "duty of a just ruler".

are you high or just retarded?

I'm not disagreeing with what you say. The point I'm trying to make is that democracy is not merely a matter of embracing "Enlightenment ideals", but rather a cumulative process whereby governments are able and willing to make political compromises when necessary, chiefly to secure their position or to avert insurrection. Presently, there are no conditions which would compel the CCP to do so, especially given past history.

The CCP knows the best itself how dangerous it is to underestimate the people's power. They are, after all, a product of a popular revolution as well.

I would say that they are being compelled to compromise every single day because there is no official and regulated way for the people to vent their frustration as in the West, where regular elections are hold to give people the illusion of a choice. In China, the government has to deal with the people as a company has to deal with consumers. The consumer's interests might not be represented in the upper floors of the company, but the company still has to do everything to satisfy the customer, or else they will go bankrupt.

This is basically the idea behind the political theory of "China Inc.", which pretty much holds true IMHO.

I think Chinese will die because of air pollution before they rule world

China is also so bland and actually has less culture than a country like America, the cities look cheap and generic on the ground level.

This. Also next time get a nighttime picture of the American skyline so you could even imply comparison

In other words: corporate nationalism

Though at the moment it's pretty easy given the pace at which everything is improving.

Not sure it will be so easy once china start to reach it peak