Was Italy truly as shitty as everyone says in WW2?

Was Italy truly as shitty as everyone says in WW2?

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youtube.com/user/icunowlibra/videos?sort=dd&view=0&shelf_id=4
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany's_Aims_in_the_First_World_War
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charge_of_the_Savoia_Cavalleria_at_Izbushensky
youtube.com/watch?v=oET1WaG5sFk&t=320s
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yes but they were worse in WW1

no

Yes.
Mussolini wanted to seem like he had a big army. He had a small army. His solution was to make each division 2/3 the size so he could say he had an extra third of an army. Then his 2/3 sized divisons got BTFO by 3/3 sized Greek divisions.

how so

Let's find out
youtube.com/user/icunowlibra/videos?sort=dd&view=0&shelf_id=4

look at WW1 battles on wikipedia and how Italy did there

they switched sides for one

...

Yes, but it wasn't something they could really change. Individual Italian soldiers were among the bravest in the world, but their generals were just stupid.

you oughta thank this guy for sending a ragtag army with obsolete armaments to fight a war we weren't prepared to fight

my only issue is when soldiers are blamed
not even ancient warfare was determined by the soldiers training and capabilities alone, let alone modern mechanized/industrialized warfare

a country's capability to wage war is directly proportional to its industrial output and availability of raw natural resources(particularly fossil ones), both things Italy largely lacked and main reason it shouldn't have played with the big boys

still shit in WW1 tho

Between this and the 582nd battle of Isonzo, they did not really have a good showing in the 20th century.

Still placed themselves among the victors..and you were still shit despite being at your military/industrial peak in WWII. Just remember Germany gets incessantly glorified only in function of the winners' narrative. The mightier and more malicious you're depicted the bigger the cock of those who beat you. Keep enjoying your southern scapegoat though.

you can downplay all country's achievements in the world wars very easily
>USA waited until others weaked each other and only joined very late
>Soviet Union had the most losses
>Britain barely fought in battles and still almost lost its army in Dunkirk

I don't take pride or shame in anything Germany did during world wars since my parents lived in Romania during that time

The Italians tried to warn the Germans that they weren't ready for war but Von Ribbentrop ignored them.
He was an incompetent and should never have been anywhere near high office t bh.

Mostly because of this absolute madman

eh not really, the independence wars were the worst, except for Garibaldi's divisions

And i agree on all of those, it's clear that each country sticks to the version of the story that fits best and nobody (including the academics) points out the giant grey area in which the truth lies.

Italy was much more successful in WW1

If I'm not mistaken the problem is that Hitler pushed for war in 1939 while Italy would need until 1941 to fully mobilize. The RoBerTo "alliance" was basically each of the three great powers just doing whatever with very little communication between them. Hence shit like Italy being forced into the war early, or Germany being forced into a war with America while Japan didn't even bother to occupy Vladivostok (actually allowing a lot of LendLease to get to Russia through the East).

But that's just Italy being Italy.

most of academies i know choose the least intelligent students for 20th century, so it shouldn't surprise you

No they didn't, you fucking memespouting idiot. You're an American so you most likely get 90% of your historical education from Sup Forums, so let me tell you something that's actually true.

Italy was part of the so-called Triple Alliance. I know the word "Alliance" implies something, but in this world there are different kinds of alliances. One of these is the so-called "defensive alliance". Do you know what this means? It means that if one side is attacked, all other parties in the treaty come to its aid. Germany, Austria-Hungary and Italy had agreed that if anyone (especially France) attacked them, they'd gang up on the attacker. This was part of Bismarcks/Germany's plan to isolate France (it also included some bilateral treaties with Russia, which fell apart later on).

Now here's the problem: what happens to a defensive alliance if one of the parties involved attacks another? It's null and void, of course. This is what happened in WW1:
>Austria declared war on Serbia
>Russia joined Serbia's war
>Germany declared war on Russia
>Germany declared war on France
>Germany declared war on Belgium
>Britain declared war on Germany
The only two countries that declared war on the Germany and Austria did so as a direct consequence of German/Austrian aggression. As such, Italy had no obligation to join in the war. This is also why for the beginning of the war Italy remained entirely neutral, now having no obligations to either side, and then joined France because it promised the most in the case of victory (Germany at some point tried to goad Austria into abandoning South Tirol in order to coax Italy but that failed).

Read a book, you obese ignoramus.

thank god someone said it

that's bretty interesting, thanks for the explanation colgatebro

>Wanting to educate americans

You need to explain it with hamburgers

You missed the most important part.

WHO provoked the serbian nationalists to trigger it all? Which country in the world at the time would have most to gain on doing that?

>Which country in the world at the time would have most to gain on doing that?

I don't know, Britain?
Tell me.

Russia backed them at least.

>tfw Germany could have dominated Europe if it allied with Russia

you guys defeated yourselves by sending Lenin back there.

Wtf, really worst tactic I've ever seen

>Which country in the world at the time would have most to gain on doing that?
Germany.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany's_Aims_in_the_First_World_War

daily reminder that an italian regiment performed the last successful cavalry charge in history

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charge_of_the_Savoia_Cavalleria_at_Izbushensky

Americka of course. The country on the other side of the planet with biggest growth. They knew they would not be hit hard by a war in Europe. They knew they would come out winners.

I'm an idiot when it comes to ww1 but what did were our big gains?

what were*

He's entering tinfoil territory with his idea that the Americans were behind the entire war, but America's gain in both world wars was being the last man standing. Europe exhausted itself, giving America the opportunity to overtake them even faster (and by the end of WW2 de facto vassalize them).

take the reins of the command

Most developed countries at the time except for the united states were in Europe. If they bomb each other to the stone age, then you would come out sole winner. Which it appears you did!

You can call it tinfoil if you want, but if you don't realize it makes sense you aren't the brightest of the bunch.

Not as bad as memed, but still terrible because of shitty industrial base, asinine high command and nobody actually giving a shit about the war in the first place

the masons, obviously

US dominance is pretty much built off the back of what you lot gained from Europe weakening itself via WWI.

>USA waited until others weaked each other
Not really - we waited until pearl Harbour

Nah, the US started engaging internationally after the turn of the century 18/19 hundreds.

1891
1898 also works

The Archduke assassination was a CIA-funded coup d'état that backfired horribly.

Did the CIA even exist then?

France declared war formally over German troops on there land

It was seen at the time in formal speak as France starting the war

Leave Italy alone, smelly br*zilian

The CIA predates Adam and Eve, what do you think caused the expulsion from the Garden Eden?

it wouldn't exist until another 33 years

really backfire? what was their real intent then? i would guess starting a war in europe would be what the US would gain most on at that particular time.

Italians cannot function on their own, While they had France and Spain to guide them they produced the best soldiers and mercenaries in europe
After Italy was created, they lost to africans, balkanites and almost had their nation collapse to austria-hungary
Italians really need supervision and its part of their culture to be unable to act independently
Best thing that could happen to italy is germany annexes their country

...

A lot of things make sense, and sometimes the truth makes zero sense. I want proof, or at the very least evidence. Not empty speculation.

what about Lucifer ?

No, Britain declared the war. The problem was that the French refused to demobilize. Weird huh? When a belligerent country goes to war, other countries that border it want to secure their own frontiers. I can't imagine why they didn't reply positively to "just send your soldiers home bro, we won't invade. Trust us, we're Germans. We'd never go back on our word to anyone!".

Sadly true, the best our troops did was under Rommel. We are too anarchic to create good leaders

I really, really like this picture.

Mind if I save it?

when you consider that WW1 was more of a war of attrition I think Italy did fairly decently at not falling apart

I’m so sorry my country’s posters are so ignorant and proud of said ignorance. Thanks for the history lesson my tulipnig

We performed well in the RSI days (when the soldiers were all volunteers and used German equipment, how strange)

that'd be copyright infringement, ivan

It was more of a guerrilla than an actual war

Yes but don’t blame us for your regularly-recurring bouts of fratricidal psychosis. We just did the smart thing, which was sit back and make shekels. France did the same thing many times

FUCK forgot I’m on vacation. Sorry for the confusing post
>t. American

I’m America btw
I am so sorry for confusing posts

What about the turco-italian war ?

We were fighting the only other Great Power shabbier than us

you wont find any evidence or proof, simply because there is so much money to be made in fucking with peoples heads these days.

What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence as well.

Lucifer discovered Reddit and found out that God isn't that allmighty. Lucifer literally means "lightbringer" and he named himself like that because he felt enlightened and euphoric.

What really matters is the interpretation and not "evidence". You can have all the "evidence" you want but if everyone around you interpret it as you are a sad desperate fucker you are fucked anyway.

Because this pic
Hitler planned WWII for like 10 years if not more, then at the last minute said "btw I start a war uh" and Mussolini "oh oh wait, we are not ready, we need years" and Hitler "oh ok sure I will wai... BLITZKRIEGGG!!!!!"
And italians didn't wanted a war because Italy was unified, there wasn't something to fight for, so low morale
Then the war started and Germany steamrolled Poland, Austria and some other slav, France forgot WWI and ignored the belgian border again, and Mussolini "well well well, Germany seem better than expected, we can let them do the job and maybe gain something at the end of the war"
Then Japan instead of working with Germany to kill Russia started a kamikaze attack on USA bringing in another problem, Russia did Russia, perfidous Britain helped, muh jews, everyone started hating Germany, gangbang on Hitler, etc. etc.

Also problems that are not very talked about but that were very important like too many types of tanks, planes, guns, etc.
So we had like brit gun that can work with american ammos, max 3 types of russian tanks you can fix all with the same components, max 4 types of japanese planes but all of them working with all types of bombs
Then there was Italy with some of the best planes, but over 9000 different models all working with different things so harder to fix, harder to find the right ammos etc.
This because Italy had no time to created like 50 tanks models and then test them to find the best 4-5 to massproduce, they rushed and made something of everything they had, there are some awesome italian planes better than any other arrived later in the war and used few times

everyfing we know about after outbreak of ww1 might as well have been made up since us ruled the world since.

Italy is just mindbogglingly bad at warfare

This is a recroded conversation (that was recorded in secret) between Hitler and Mannerheim. A finnish engineer captured the conversation and in this recording Hitler complains about how they underestemated the USSR, but also about how totally fucking weak and incompetent Italy was.

*link
youtube.com/watch?v=oET1WaG5sFk&t=320s

Italy's incompetence cost the axis a lot of valuable time. The Germans had to divert forces from their own fronts to go help the Italians struggle against enemies that they should have been able to sweep away easily on paper.

Anglo propaganda but I don't care if you see that in this way
Cannot fight alone agency that only goals is to undermine italians times after times