He's 100% right

He's 100% right.

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No he isn't

Isn't the whole point of that guy that he's an over educated idiot more interested in shilling his own interests than actually helping anyone?

no

yes

>Bad people aren't responsible for their actions
I wonder which party he votes for

Just like OP, minus the over educated part.

Criminals dindu nuffin

There's a video on YouTube (which I can't find, sadly) where qualified psychiatrists discuss whether or not Batman actually IS crazy. They all agree that he's not exactly a picture of mental health, but he doesn't really fit into any actual mental disorder, because the people who do wouldn't do what Bruce has done i.e. become a vigilante (specifically, one with a no-kill policy).

In fact, the one disorder he DOES have is thanatophobia - a fear of death. THAT is why Batman doesn't kill The Joker... he's too traumatised by the death of his parents to take another life.

and whats the deal with him looking like Hitler?

Or he's just a fictional character.

And then Harvey turns out to still be crazy anyway.

>Bad people are bad because someone else programmed them to be that way
Wew. The funny thing is people who actually believe this will vote for Hillary Clinton.

That was the point if the whole book.
Liberals are useless

The point of him is Frank Miller complaining about liberals.

>youtube.com/watch?v=MnLA4Iw7FHA

He's 100% wrong, even the villains themselves admit it.

He's a blatant liberal strawman. What do you expect?

Yeah, villains go, "Batman made me do it!" as a challenge for the hero to overcome, and like Joker going, "Lol I dare you to kill me cause I know you won't!" the trick became so effective it turned into part of the character which...sort of ruined the trick.

They need to take a break from both gimmicks.

HA HA HE LOOKS LIKE HITLER WITH A JEWFRO

LIBERALS AM I RIGHT?

BUILD WALL.

I think, "What the fuck is wrong with gotham that it needs at Batman?" is a legitimate point and could even be a cool story.

The problem is writers (and fans) suddenly forgetting that Bruce ISN'T a playboy venting a childhood trauma in the faces of petty criminals. Batman using Bruce Wayne and the Wayne foundation to try and fight crime through social and economic means has been a significant part of the character since the bronze age.

Wayne, like Queen, is the last of a tradition in American capitalism where the rich were expected, as a tradition within their social class, to give back to the cities that made their fortunes; build bridges, fund police retirement funds, revamp government buildings so the city doesn't have to shoulder that cost. I think you could get a lot of cool stories out of ultramodern vulture capitalists taking brutal advantage of what they'd see as a weakness in the Wayne business plan.

What I'm saying is lets push Great White Shark for summer slam.

>Sup Forums thinks people actually act like this

Goddammit, go outside sometime.

There really aren't enough stories about regular business vs Bruce. The mob, sure, but actual, legitimate business.

That was never true. It was just rich people becoming above the law by owning everything. They still do that.

Zap some news channels for 5 minutes, you will hear someone blaming black violence on society.

Overeducated people love their system. They apply it to everything they can. If they don't work in their field, it looks really silly.

>Zap

Where were you when Frank BTFO liberals?

the book isn't keen on reagan either, IIRC

everyone is useless except batman

All the people saying this is a liberal strawman must be too young to remember that throughout the 90s the exact same argument was being rolled out by the religious right and conservatives. Pokemon? The work of the devil. D&D? Turns kids into satanists. Rap? Turns whites into thugs. Cultivation theory isn't a political tool, it's been used by hacks across the political spectrum for decades and decades, whether it's idiots on the right complaining about violent video games or idiots on the left complaining about sexist video games.

>I think, "What the fuck is wrong with gotham that it needs at Batman?" is a legitimate point and could even be a cool story.
>Wayne, like Queen, is the last of a tradition in American capitalism where the rich were expected, as a tradition within their social class, to give back to the cities that made their fortunes; build bridges, fund police retirement funds, revamp government buildings so the city doesn't have to shoulder that cost.

Having not delved too deep into this: Weren't a lot of the old stories about gangsters trying to rob charity events and shit? Like, old villains were sort of there to fuck with Batman not as a pissing match with another looney, but because Bruce Wayne in trying to do good made himself a target?

While this is true, comics have been hit especially hard by it from all sides. One can kind of see why a comic author would roll it into whatever opposition strawman he uses.

If liberals are useless, then how come green arrow was the one who got to for the kryptonite arrow?

But he was clearly wrong

what?

The only villain one could sort of argue Batman created is the Joker (and even that is debatable depending on what origin you believe). Everyone else would still be a criminal even without Batman, and would probably have caused far more damage without a Batman to stop them.

See, Wolfman has an ability not to blame the victim, not to blame the criminal, but to blame the law protecting people by saying batman caused his criminals.

He blames media for popularizing batman and he thinks too much about analysis, calling two-face an ideological doppelgänger to Batman? Dude, the guys a criminal, Batman just tries to take him down.

What I like about TDKR Bruce is despite our idea of him being downright psychotic, he's merely a reaction to the world around him. That's probably the one thing he relates to Harvey about, Bruce tries to ignore his batman side but he can't just as Harvey can't ignore two-face. But that being said, he also has different considerations for different villains, instead of an all or nothing approach. Bruce Wayne actually funded Dents rehabilitation, Mutant leader doesn't get punished he gets systematically taken out through strategy, there's no holds barred on Joker Batman just goes nuts and does literally anything he wants but kill him, and when the government wants to hunt batman down for being a better sheriff to Gotham, he treats Yindel as a basically a threat to ignore, and Superman a threat to tackle to the ground and scare him because that's the only option. Batman wasn't trying to kill superman. He was trying to scare people. Supes by beating him to an inch of his life, gov for fighting superman.

The best part about the animated movie was the Christopher Reeve superman poster, implying that supes is Chris

This page BTFO liberals as much as that Red Skull page BTFO conservatives.

Which is to say, not all all.

That's what happened in TDKR, which is what this page is from.

The whole thing was Batwank.

I know what comic this is, but that sentence makes no sense

Too young or don't care because it goes against their rhetoric. Don't worry, if trump did become president they'll spin left out of contrainism faster than this guy's head.

This. Would be good to see Wayne Enterprises actually showing some progress and seeing some characters that did reform thanks to bruce.

How does it not?

user said "Liberals are useless". Another user countered with an example the same book having a liberal be very useful.

>how come green arrow was the one who got to for the kryptonite arrow

Because, later in his life, he understood that our guilty conscience may force us to vote Democratic, but deep down inside, we secretly long for a cold-hearted Republican to lower taxes, brutalise criminals and rule us like a king!

Test.

Comics got hit by it so hard they never fully recovered.

It's why Stan Lee personally came to testify during the video game bullshit

I have seem worst things on my College.

it's funny how libtards gets triggered when people make fun of them in the same way they strawman their opponents

HA HA TRIGGERED LIBTARDS AM I RIGHT?

SUCH HYPOCRITES.

BUILD WALL.

People blaming the media for their problems is pretty common. You even see it here all the time.

How neat. Link?

>>Bad people aren't responsible for their actions
but that was always agreed on
the only new thing is blaming everything on batman

>being this butthurt

but it is because of society. your society is shit, americans.

Are you implying that doesn't go 100% both ways?

There are threads dedicated to outrage over conservative strawmen and ironic SJW posting on this board every single day.

Didn't Harvey Dent become Two-Face because some mobster threw acid in his face?

I think it's disingenuous to reduce the claim that there are societal forces that push people towards crime in order to equate it with "bad people aren't responsible for their own actions!"

Of course those people are responsible for their actions. But you don't have to deny that to acknowledge that one is influenced by their surroundings and limitations.

Yes the claim that Batman creates crime is dumb. But that claim is not equal to the notion that blacks (ie, the impoverished, because when we come down to it most violent crime is by the poor and a higher percentage of blacks are poor compared to the percentage of whites, that is pretty much the largest reason why they appear to have a disproportionate amount of crime) commit crime because of their lot in life.

a mobster he and Batman worked together to bring in I think

>I enjoy my characters 2d and unanalyzed

LOL SO BUTTHURT AM I RIGHT?

LOOK AT THAT GUY HA HA BUILD WALL.

I feel like I must have become desensitized to comics.

People look at stuff like this image and talk about how wacky comics are, and how they should never take themselves seriously because they're about people in spandex costumes.

I've read comics all my life so maybe the patently ridiculous nature is just not apparent to me. But I think being set in a world with values dissimilar to our own does not preclude the need for pathos and good storytelling.

Pretty much. If given a chance, many of those people probably wouldn't have turned to crime, but since they never got it, they went for the easiest option available.

...

That doesn't really have anything to do with the claim that Batman is a social ill. It could have been any criminal, Batman's involvement is incidental.

...

...

You guys seriously don't have enough brain capacity to understand Miller's writing if you think this character is "100% right" or "100% wrong". Everyone in this book is a strawman for whatever ideology they represent, and everyone is wrong or right depending on where you lean on the political spectrum. The Dark Knight universe is a satirical futuristic nightmare world very similar to Robocop.

The only one who's right in this book is Batman because Batman is fucking bad ass and that's the point.

At the end of the day, no matter what Luthor may claim, he's just a selfish asshole that doesn't like Superman because he prevents him from doing whatever he wants.
That's it. All he cares about is power, he doesn't care about humanity as anything but tools.

And Watchmen was Rorschach wank, am I right?

...

Do you think that's clever? Because it's not.

>triggered when people make fun of them in the same way they strawman their opponents
>exclusively liberal

Is this your first day on Sup Forums?

Reality and grounded stories=/=good storytelling

But then...

Not originally. Maybe in a later retelling of the story.

Sup Forums does nothing but get triggered user

Not part of whatever argument you're having, just reafirming what you thought

Anonymity turns every third person into a raw exposed nerve of emotion that explodes all over whenever they have the chance to.

But it's right.

lawandthemultiverse.com/

It's fun.

I'll never understand why people put this as their #1 comic, it's 85% filler talking head shit

>Liberals are one person

>muh miller
>muh batman
>muh batman vs superman

No, Watchmen very clearly portrayed Rorsharch as a flawed person who was not always in the right. All of the characters in Watchmen were.

TDKR is just a long Chick Tract with more intersting art.

The guys point is that Millers not 100% against Liberals because Batmans only superhero buddy in the story shown was Oliver who is as liberal as they come.

To which I would also say Oliver being Batmans only friend so late in the game makes sense because green arrow is so similar to batman it only makes sense

WOAH!
mindblown!

they act like an hivemind

They don't. People may also think conservatives also act like a hivemind, but they don't either.

Taking American politics alone into consideration, there are over three hundred million people in America, and about 40 % of the voting age populace considers themselves liberal. Acting like all of them think the same and share the same opinions is disingenuous.

>Implying Miller's Batman wasn't flawed.
Because Miller doesn't show it on the surface as hacks like Snyder or Johns do, doesn't mean he wasn't a flawed character.

Was he?
The only reason the Joker started killing again was because the batman showed up again, right?
The Joker wouldn't have ever existed if the Bruce has spent all that money on the Gotham Police instead of just on himself
Why couldn't Batman just train the police to act that way?

Didn't testify, I misremembered. Just wrote about it and sent it
bleedingcool.com/2010/09/19/stan-lee-defends-video-game-first-amendment-rights/

I thought the point of all of batman's inner monologues in TDKR were to show how damaged he was. All of them were fairly sad.

But people still keep complaining about Miller's Batman being a Mary sue, while Batman developed as a character throughout the comic, and so did the city and its citizens.

People also thought Rorschach was the hero.

People are bad with subtlety in comics.

he was the hero. that doesn't mean he was a good person

He's Jack Thompson and Jon McIntosh 30 years early.

He's talking about Harvey, though.

Joker did act because of Batman's return, he also exists because of Batman. But he's pretty much unique in that regard, the only one that OP's psychologist's reasoning can be applied to. Why stop being Batman because of just one guy? Joker may do a lot of shit, but that's just a small fragment of the crime that goes on in Gotham. So, on the whole, I'd say Batman is needed.

>The Joker wouldn't have ever existed if the Bruce has spent all that money on the Gotham Police instead of just on himself
>Why couldn't Batman just train the police to act that way?

Just throwing money at something doesn't always work. And if Batman can do what a whole police force can't, I'd say it's more the man trained than the training provided.

He wasn't the hero. From the perspective of the mystery part of the plot, he was the protagonist. But he wasn't the hero of the story.

Arguably no one is, and arguably Ozzy is. I think Watchmen eschews the Monomyth, making pointing to a single character that could be considered a hero difficult.

ZEX, UND ZEX, UND ZEX

LMAO. And why is having a psychologically competent military a bad thing? Besides, I'm pretty sure most of the WW2 soldiers were just inexperienced men and boys pulled from their families and given a gun, not properly trained soldiers that chose to join, like we have today.