FUCK BUCKY
FUCK CAP
AND FUCK ANYONE WHO LIKES THIS EITHER OF THESE ASSHOLES
I went into this expecting to hate tony because he would characteristically be backing something morally wrong or borderline evil. But no.
He SHOULD have killed that asshole and was NEVER in the wrong at any point in the whole damn movie.
Why the fuck is bucky SOOOO important??? He might as well be the lightning of marvel at this point. FUCK HIM AND FUCK HIS BOYFRIEND CAP.
tony pls go
You sound upset, friend. Perhaps you should calm down and tell us where the bad spangly men touched you.
Calm down, let's have a CIVIL war
Boring.
Not our fault nobody loves you, Tony.
Killed him? No, Bucky wasn't himself when he did those things.
Detained him? Yes. Whether Cap's buddy or no, Bucky is dangerous, and it's not until the end of the movie where Black Panther reveals he can try to remove Hydra's conditioning. Cap was operating on pure emotion when it came to Bucky, which is understandable, but hard to justify when you consider Cap had no idea if Bucky was going to be triggered into Winter Soldier mode again.
But Cap? Tony was 100% justified in losing his shit on him. Steve knew, and even though he tells himself he didn't know Bucky did it, there was no way he wouldn't have at least suspected, if not extrapolated entirely. That's not the kind of thing you hide from a friend.
But Steve admitted fault on that front, and Tony looks like he's ready to consider forgiving him, so all in all, I think the movie ended on the best note it could have, given the circumstances.
>Tony was 100% justified in losing his shit on him
No, he was not. It was understandable but not justifiable.
Tony is a fucking moron through the whole film so he's at least consistent anyway.
>FUCK BUCKY
>FUCK CAP
I would like to do both of those things
Get off Sup Forums, Tony.
Go home Ross. You're just pissy about losing Banner.
AND WHY DID THEY JUST HAVE CAP BREAK EVERYONE OUT OF PRISON ATHE LAST FUCKING MINUTE RUINING GOOD DRAMA AND SETUP FOR THE NEXT MOVIE?
WAY TO INVALIDATE ARGUABLY THE WHOLE MOVIE AND LEAVE EVERYONE FREE AND WE'LL OFF WHILE TONY IS YET AGAIN THE ONLY ONE ALONE AND FUCKED OVER. WELL DONE MARVEL
SHOULD HAVE JUST CALLED IT "CAPTAIN AMERICA: FUCK OVER TONY"
>WHILE TONY IS YET AGAIN THE ONLY ONE ALONE AND FUCKED OVER
That's what he gets for being worst boy.
The problem with detaining Bucky is that he was much safer on his own. What makes Bucky dangerous is when other people are controlling him. He's not unstable or a risk to anyone when he can make his own decisions, his fighting style as Bucky shows that he actively tries to protect himself and get away over the total destruction style in WS-mode. When you give a government access to him, he becomes a murder weapon. Look how Pierce used him, look how Zemo used him. That's what happens when anyone controls Bucky. Being controlled or captured is not in his best interest. Especially since he spent the last 70 years in enemy captivity, tortured and brainwashed. Putting him back in that kind of situation is going to prevent him from ever recovering.
Bucky's situation is the perfect illustration of the government control vs safest hands are our own. Corrupt governments and organizations abusing their power is the bread and butter of the MCU. Would you really trust Ross not to do something stupid with the WS in his possession after his track record with the Hulk? Would you really doubt some undercover Hydra agent or Soviet finding a way in to gain access to the WS and take him back? When he was in Bucharest, he was off the radar. Not even a day into the government having their hands on him and he was on a rampage again.
I agree that Steve was wrong to hide it from Tony, keeping in mind that Natasha also was aware and made the decision to hide it too while also being the one on Tony's side. I don't think that makes Tony justified in trying to kill Bucky, since he has knowledge of everything being outside of Bucky's control. His feelings are understandable and I don't expect him to forgive Steve easily, even if they manage to work together through IW. Setting things aside in order to save the world is very different than being friends again.
>Captain America thinks it OK to invade other countries, carry out illegal operations and takes no responsibility when people die
What a hero
Because they all have to be friends again for Infinity War. Just like Scarlet Witch forgave Tony for indirectly killing her parents because of his weapons even though the Murder bot he made directly killed her brother
The MCU isn't really well written
Just living up to his name.
OH SNAP
Nice strawman.
Is it really an invasion if it's like, less than ten people?
Damn son, who pissed in your cereal this morning?
Is paraphrasing the early plot of the film really a strawman?
>and was NEVER in the wrong at any point in the whole damn movie.
Except when he wanted the Avengers to be the military arm of a body of world govt with it's own geopolitical agendas.
Cap said it best. "What if they send us somewhere we don't want to go? What if there's somewhere we NEED to go and they won't send us?" "The safest hands are still our own."
Also, Bucky wasn't in control of his own actions when he killed Tony's parents.
Yeah. I don't get why Wanda remotely trusts Stark. I could see her tolerating him and acknowledging that bad things happen because he does stupid things without any actual malice. The whole agreeing to do anything Tony says thing just felt stupid. I spent a bunch of the movie expecting her to sneak off to the Wakandan Embassy to submit herself to trial since her awareness of what it feels like to be collateral damage os part of her character.
Tony would have regretted it and gone down another self-destructive spiral after calming down. Steve was saving Tony from himself too.
>Captain America doesn't want to be sent by the UN to invade other countries, carry out illegal operations, and take no responsibility when people die
UN control means even more disrespect for national sovereignty. Privately operating Avengers is far safer for the world. You won't see Captain killing heads of state in the Middle East and destabilizing entire regions, but you will see UN controlled Avengers doing nothing but that.
>Killed him? No, Bucky wasn't himself when he did those things.
That's like saying you shouldn't get rid of an insanely dangerous weapon because it also dispenses ice cream and cures the common cold when it isn't armed, even though within the last month it's been armed twice
It's still dangerous, I don't get why Cap or Bucky waited until the very end to freeze Bucky, and I don't get how Cap didn't beat Tony
>"Hey kid, later when you fight Cap, aim for his legs"
>"Hey, this advice that Tony Stark gave me when dealing with Captain America actually worked"
>"Oh no, I, Tony Stark AKA Iron Man, am fighting Captain America, if only there were some tips and/or tricks that I could use to fight him"
Like, we get it marvel, but that doesn't make it less stupid
just aim in two different places
I agree OP, Cap basically pissed on the graves of all the agents Bucky killed when he escaped from capture.
Tony was right.
Tolerate Tony? Yes. Trust him. No.
Its likely for Wanda to stay out of human affairs totally until mid-way through Infinity War.
>So these living weapons of mass destruction should have a non-elected international political organization known for violating every human right we have a label for, and hope somehow these living weapons of mass destruction won't be exploited by corrupt political interests.
Steve and his crew are the only people who are making sense in the film. The U.N of Marvel is probably as corrupt, if not moreso, than the U.N of real life. Why does anyone believe it's a brilliant suggestion to have the U.N dictate the directives of the Avengers? HYDRA has shown they are able to infiltrate SHIELD, a organization far more covert, creeping in as part of the U.N wouldn't be difficult. I wouldn't be surprised if the U.N is already festered with HYDRA agents.
If those ten people have the power of an entire army then yes.
It would be easier for the Avengers to become corrupt/HYDRA than the governments of 117 countries.
You don't give anyone absolute authority. This includes the Avengers. Checks and balances are absolutely the way to go.
>"Cap was right"
Here's an easy check and balance: a country tells the privately-operating Avengers "don't come."
A lot easier than telling the UN "don't come."
>Neither Evans nor Cavill have thrown shade at the other company
At least I don't think Evans has.
I love them.
>UN
>deciding on anything
Thanos could be invading and destroying whole countries and they would take a few weeks to send in the Avengers, and by then it would be too late.
>Here's an easy check and balance: a country tells the privately-operating Avengers "don't come."
As far as we know, that's exactly what the Accords were.
The Avengers were already ignoring country's laws and hopping borders to strike. That's the biggest reason the Accords were created.
Yeah, imagine how much more could get done if someone could just act unilaterally in any way they see fit, without needing anyone else's approval. Someone who could just dictate whatever needed to be done. A dictate-er of sorts.
We know what the Accords were. Ross explains they become a UN controlled organization that is deployed at the UN's orders.
So many idiots see the film and only think "oh, Steven just wants to be free to intervene whenever he wants." Except that Steve and Sam originally both chose to retire rather than come under UN control before Bucky's involvement made it personal. Clearly Steve's worry was more about the "what if they send us somewhere we shouldn't go?"
Privately run Avengers is more trustworthy than UN controlled Avengers. I wouldn't want the UN to send superhumans to invade my country for the sake of "exporting democracy" or whatever.
Agreed
The U.N is already dominated by the United Nations Security Council due to veto power. It isn't a accurate representation of over hundred nations equally expressing a voice on international politics. It's dictated by the whims of only six nations. HYDRA only needs to infiltrate one of those nations to prevent the adoption of any resolution. They can hinder the Avengers simply by applying red tape.
Let's break it down
At odds with best friend
Fight best friend you are no longer his best friend
His new best friend killed your parents
He knew but kept quiet to protect his new best friend
You don't need the Accords to stop the Avengers from doing what they do. They're publicly known, have a known base of operations, and clear funding source. It's a simple matter of telling the Avengers "no" and then pursuing legal and civil action if they don't abide.
Movie Tony and Steve have never been best friends
Tony has a little bit of hero worship and Steve respects Tony for doing heroic stuff and almost being "The Captain America of the modern age", but Steve's best friends are (in order of importance) Bucky>Sam>Natasha
>So many idiots see the film and only think "oh, Steven just wants to be free to intervene whenever he wants." Except that Steve and Sam originally both chose to retire rather than come under UN control before Bucky's involvement made it personal.
So he didn't violate the law until he wanted to.
>I wouldn't want the UN to send superhumans to invade my country for the sake of "exporting democracy" or whatever.
You'd rather have an unelected, private organization of 6 people have a super-powerful army that can act whenever, wherever, and however they choose?
Look at the Avengers from the world's perspective:
>A soldier from the 1940s who has difficulty adapting to modern society
>An assassin who belonged to SHIELD, the organization that turned out to be full of HYDRA and nearly took over the world
>Same as above, PLUS being raised from birth to be a remorseless killing machine, and having intentionally killed lots of innocent people in the past
>A guy who turns into an unstoppable, uncontrollable giant monster when he gets upset
>An alien ruler who's brother recently tried to take over the world
>A guy who accidentally created a murderbot that destroyed an entire country and nearly the entire human race
>A former member of HYDRA who helped said murderbot get as far as he did
>The murderbot's invincible son
Why the fuck would you trust these people with a degree of power that you don't even trust democratically elected leaders with?
Fucking hell the Lords costumes were so good.
Justice loo were right too.
Half of the members of U.N are not democratically elected, and the other "half" of the ones that are, are classified as democratically flawed systems, such as the Philippines or the African continent, leaving doubt if these leaders truly represent the interests of the people. That's the problem. It's not that I condemn democracy, the existence of the U.N demonstrates the proper popular vote isn't necessarily a requirement to voice a particular world view that impacts the lives of billions of people.
China has veto power, being a first among equals, but it is not a democracy. Most of the Middle East is not a democracy, despite controlling a large portion of the petroleum reserves in the World, earning them a disproportional amount of political and economic influence when compared to their total population.
Even if you believe these States were democratically elected, or at the very least, the majority of the population consent to their rule, you're presuming they have the world's population best interests at heart. I don't believe for a moment that my country (Canada) can state their interests completely aligns with the interests of the international community.
I can say this: The Avengers are an international community of various people around the world. They're not seeking power, wealth, or control of the people. And that's far more than I can say for the U.N.
Nope they haven't they even broed up in an Awards show.
who takes a fucking bite out of the top bun of a burger and just puts it down in favor of a book
I call bullshit, and worse, I call these two homosexual men UNAMERICAN
Tony couldn't have really won this fight, he would never have let himself become a killer no matter how angry he was
in short, Tony was weak and fought to lose
>Captain America thinks it OK to invade other countries, carry out illegal operations and takes no responsibility when people die
let's see what happens to the above sentence when we take out one word
>America thinks it OK to invade other countries, carry out illegal operations and takes no responsibility when people die
It's still true!