Is this true?

Is this true?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=VMCeDBn1Zu0
youtube.com/watch?v=Njd7t7ZOrqk
bleedingcool.com/2016/06/29/contest-of-champions-and-hyperion-cancelled-by-marvel-comics/
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

The first part, yes. The second part, not really. You don't owe people anything for liking their stuff but you kind of owe them if you are supposed to pay for it and you don't.

This.

If the creator makes something that's free like a webcomic, they should still strive to not alienate their fans.

It's subjective.

Technically speaking, the exchange is done, I bought it. Whether or not I enjoy it, neither owes anyone.

Realistically, there are creators who I feel endebted to because they legit made my life better or me a better person through what they created. Not financially endebted, but a more esoteric debt.

Translation: "I can't handle criticism of my work"

...

If you don't like it, why are you reading it? They shouldn't have to change for you

This presumes that artists/'creators' have an obligation to make profit off what they create. And it also presumes that if they arent making enough, then its some dirty thief preventing them from making it rather than a lack of audience to buy it.

stopped pirate stuff when I read through all of indivisible and realised I read 210 dollar worth of comics

I am artist myself and it would suck if someone pirate my future comics because "it's so easy"

I own image comics like 70 dollars right now planned to pay it all back later this year.

so the answer is yess

Wait, is this saying I can basically go "I DIDNT LIKE IT THEREFORE I DO NOT NEED TO PAY FOR IT" when people ask me to pay for stuff?

so to sum up: WAAAH WHY CANT MORE PEOPLE BUY IT. STUPID PIRATES CUTTING INTO MUH PROFITS

Wrong
Translation: "You can criticize my work, but there's no reason I should care about what you have to say"
And he's completely right about that.

>Technically speaking, the exchange is done, I bought it. Whether or not I enjoy it, neither owes anyone.


but a lot of anons here pirates stuff, we have daily pirate threads and storytime threads for example

It means that a creator shouldn't be obligated to service fans

If they rely on creativity to make a living, they owe it to themselves to owe it to their consumers to create a product that will keep them buying.

>If you don't like it, why are you reading it?
It seems he would be the type to value an educated opinion.

No, not profit. But you should buy if an artists sells something you want. No stealing.

but dude it's a legit problem why shouldn't a creator have issues with piracy?

poor people don't deserve to read?

Why? The creator is not making it for the fans.

Because those types of fans are a vocal minority.

I didn't ask any why questions, what part of my post are you trying to refer to?

>If they rely on creativity to make a living, they owe it to themselves to owe it to their consumers to create a product that will keep them buying.


so piracy is in the fault of the creator? are they not good enough for you to pay for it what kind of joke is that?

Why would you want art based on fan service? You only want dumb stuff? An artist should do what he or she wants to do. As a fan you either buy if you like it or search for something else. Your opinion as a fan doesn't matter.

First part yes, second part no.

The creator doesn't owe his audience anything, he can make art that literally only he enjoys if that's what he wants.

What he then CAN'T do, is bitch about people criticizing it, or claim that he is owed an audience or that his existing audience owe him their loyalty.

What the fuck are either of you talking about?

>Sup Forums won't stop criticizing my dead furry webcomic!

well yes they shouldn't get things they didn't pay for what the fuck is that kind of question?

Way to not post the rest of the rant where it's clear he's talking about fans who get upset shit doesn't follow "muh headcanons".

Speaking as an artfag:
The intrinsic point of making something artistic is to communicate something to other people. Good art can communicate complex thoughts and ideas into very simple or abstract images, allegories, etc.

So there's kind of a very basic requirement to not act like a pretentious asshole making art just for themselves, when your job is to communicate to an audience. Especially when you in some way take their money.

Personally I think the same is true about taking people's time. It's a finite resource, too many artists waste people's time.

Technically artists owe their audience their success, and audiences are more like investors of time and money. Especially today where art is so suffocating and everywhere in everyone's life, you better not take that shit for granted and alienate people who already don't have a reason to give you their time. This isn't an incentive to pander, but just keep it real and realize how lucky you are to live in an age where you can basically dick around with self indulgent art and make a living off patreon, when the last time in history that was viable, everyone was either drawing nothing but ads, or nothing but jesus paintings with the threat of death if they drew anything heretical.

are you just going to ignore the picture user? she have a great point.

If you can't handle people wanting more of your art, you aren't mature enough to create.

Artists are the driving force behind comics, music, movies, etc. Not fans. Fans need to buy and enjoy or find other stuff they can enjoy. A fan's voice is his money. Their opinions don't matter. What would a fan know better about creating something than an actual artist?

Everyone deserves to read, but unfortunately that doesn't mean that everyone can. If you're too poor to afford comic books then unfortunately pirating them so you can still read them isn't okay

I try to juggle it.
Pirate the stuff when it comes out then buy it when I've got enough money.

Pirating stuff I suppose makes sure it stays in my mind and holds my interest. Then I'm more likely to spend money on it.

Otherwise I suppose it's "Well I've finally earned this money for this thing I was hyped for months ago...but I'm not feeling it now and maybe it won't be worth the money."

entertainment exist for people to waste their time on

time is finite resource but it's not like people actually values it why do you thin Sup Forums exist for?

I can't take Morbi seriously when he seeks out his own hugboxes

>Art should NOT = suffering

You fucking plebian. You stupid coddled cocksucker. Art is born of sweat and suffering and emotion! You can't just splash good feelings on a wall and call it art! If you don't want to suffer for your art then you're outright confessing that you're too lazy to imbue your art with any soul.

This is so wrong. The point of art is self-expression. If some people enjoy you work, cool. If they don't, too bad. It is not a conversation. It's a monologue, people can enjoy or not.

Chiming in; Yeah, a person could feel like they owe the author something if their enjoyment of the work felt, shall we say, transcendental for them. At least on a personal scale. First part? Also depends. It's all good and well if it's an original work, but since you Westerners have an obsession of writing about the same characters in the same setting? If you're contributing to a shared universe, the author owes it to the fans to make something enjoyable for them rather than on messing it up, deliberately even in some cases. Because the success of the works they're writing stories for were because of the efforts of their predecessors and of the fans who received those works, not because of any individual efforts on their part. If they felt like shitting something up, they should make something original on their own.

>Artists are the driving force behind comics, music, movies, etc. Not fans.
And if they want to make a living out of creativity, they need to keep their fans paying. Basic economics.
>A fan's voice is his money. Their opinions don't matter
Are you seriously trying to say that fans don't use money to back up their opinions?
>What would a fan know better about creating something than an actual artist?
Why do you think that fans don't create? The Beatles were inspired, but by your "logic," they can't make things of their own because they were fans. Do you think that you are everyone? There are too many idiotic half thoughts in your post, you shouldn't take yourself too seriously.

No, if you are talking about free content, you don't owe anyone anything and they don't owe you anything either.
If you are selling something you owe them their money's worth, and if they paid for it they don't owe you anything more than that.

Libraries don't exist. It's the same thing, you're not owning any material just viewing art like listening to music in YouTube.

>counting story time threads as pirating

Yeah see but then that's where you draw the line between an entertainer and an artist. Either one is a fine choice, but the distinction has to be made. The people who make throwaway content online for the express purpose of just wasting time, are not artists. People communicating some kind of message in their work that requires more craft and may or may not be well told, but still, you know, told? They're artists.

Right now is a great time to be an entertainer and an equally great time to be an artist if you don't shit where you eat.

Fuck you. You pay for art and be extremely grateful someone actually made you something to enjoy.

I'm fairly sure this is someone saying you can't, and actively caring about it.

Dismissing criticism as "just haters" and "I don't owe them anything" is not a moral high ground, it's just immature.

that's just basic 'business' but that still doesnt mean the creator owes anyone anything

>someone actually made you something to enjoy
So it doesn't matter if you enjoy it, as long as it was made for you to enjoy.

but the beatles isn't everyone user how the heck will you find one that actually knows what they talk about when they all clutter into a big mess and often enough the people that create don't waste time complaining and work on their own stuff.

>Are you seriously trying to say that fans don't use money to back up their opinions?

also comic book fans pirate their stuff, that's just a fact

>information should be restricted to those who can afford it

You're both wrong.

You're also both right.

The point of art is communication, if that's what you want it to be and the point is self-expression if that's what you want it to be.

The only people who are completely retarded are the people who think they can have it both ways. You can't make art only for yourself and expect that anyone will like it or care about it or not shit all over it.

I could be wrong for the most part here but I don't believe all countries have comics in their libraries, I don't think libraries in my country do. You don't have to buy comics to read them if you can get them through other legal means

I'm talking about the Official Win-O'-Thread douchebag.

That's why I said
>and storytime

Storytimes for anything non-Big 2 that is in print should really be limited to single issues or 10ish page samples for GNs. Not that this should be a mod-enforced thing, I just mean ethically.
Comics are expensive, but they're not THAT expensive. I managed to build a pretty respectable collection while paying rent, food, and college tuition on wages from a summer job these past four years.
Limiting yourself to what you can afford is also a good way to make sure you actually focus on the things you're reading rather than just cramming as much content into your brain as possible. I appreciate the works I've collected a lot more because I've read them all at least two or three times, rather than just scanning through them and then deleting them.

Literally posting series that artists have available for purchase in their entirety on a public website.
Whether you like it or not, storytimes are piracy.

How much does Piracy help promote a series these days?
Wasn't it Game of Thrones, where someone who worked on it credited it's early success to the amount it was illegally streamed thus reaching more people and generating a lot of interest.

>also comic book fans pirate their stuff, that's just a fact
All of them? Prove it.
>but the beatles isn't everyone user
I didn't call them everyone, examples are not meant to be all-inclusive definitions. This is another example of your idiotic half-thoughts, you're too concerned with trying to catch me than you are with saying anything of merit.
>they all clutter into a big mess
Again, what the fuck are you talking about?
>often enough
Often enough to suit your tenuous nonsensical argument? Could be, and yet there are fans that do create from inspiration.

>Movies and art are filled with literal garbage that people celebrate like

youtube.com/watch?v=VMCeDBn1Zu0

>Comic creators don't fulfill headcanon
>Stop the presses!

No wonder people make fun of comics.

Yes, fans should pay if they want art. An artist has no responsibility towards fans. Fan service is always ugly.
I'm saying fans shouldn't feel entitled to have any say about an artist's work and feel like the artist should listen to them.
And your last point is silly. The moment you create, you're an artist. Fans who don't create or artists who create lesser works should not feel entitled to tell a better artist how to create.

I don't even know what it is. It's probably shit if the creator is this self righteous and immature in the face of criticism.

If your work is bad, don't blame your critics.

That's like saying watching a movie that you bought with a bunch of your friends is piracy.
Posts fall off the board and after a week they're gone from the site. After that, if somebody downloads the files or happens to archive the webpage, that's on them. It's not my fault if my friend brings a video camera to my house and records the movie.

It is a moral high ground. Thinking you're entitled to tell someone how to create is immature. You want to see different art. Put your own time and money in to creating something instead of trying get to take ownership of someone else's work.

Apples and oranges. Comic readers tend to be neckbeards who pirate everything. They're not going to be swayed into buying the things they pirate.

well yes user you are born in a generation of free market that exchange entertainment for money.


take your hippy bullshit ways out of here

>An artist has no responsibility towards fans
Unless they want to make a living on their art.
>Fan service is always ugly.
You are the only one talking about fan service, where have you gotten the idea that fans are creating for the artists?
>And your last point is silly
Coming from the person who takes words at face value to the extent that pleasing customers equates fanservice? You don't have credibility, you probably just don't understand it.

No, its like buying a movie and then playing it publicly on a big screen. What you're doing is already illegal, someone else saving the files is just extra shit icing on the shit cake.

It shouldn't matter to the artist. What you enjoy as a fan is your business. Keep it to yourself. An artist should not be conserned with you. Why should someone who puts effort into creating something, care about what someone who doesn't has to say

Art should not be viewed as a product you buy, you dimwit. If you but a dishwasher and it doesn't work, you have every right to complain. If you buy art and you don't like it, shut the fuck up and buy something else.

Why can't I refund art

yeah but you got to consider not every situation is alike. People who would buy the first 4 vols of a comic would maybe not buy it after vol 5 because a twist made their waifu die or some shit

"whaa I can't be bothered paying the 25 dollars of issues i read now because this or that or that or this"


maybe it should be a mod thing, like honestly it's not like Sup Forums care about ethics

>It shouldn't matter to the artist
Unless they're making a living on sales. You keep opening your posts with this, but you keep forgetting we've covered it.
>What you enjoy as a fan is your business. Keep it to yourself.
Where is this coming from?
>An artist should not be conserned with you
"Concerned," and again, only if they don't need your money for food and bills.
>Why should someone who puts effort into creating something, care about what someone who doesn't has to say
Do you need to read it a third time in one post? Because I keep saying it. I'm pretty sure you're , because you're making the exact same argument with the same words. Let's stop pretending.

>Art should not be viewed as a product you buy
Clearly you've never interacted with any artist, ever.
>If you buy art and you don't like it, shut the fuck up
This is all well and good for you who is afraid of thought, but artists actually rely on criticism to get better at what they do.

Well yeah, you probably owe them some sort of payment for the work they did trying to entertain you but I get the feeling this is probably less about that and more about this dude getting bitchy that his fans don't enjoy his new stuff or keep pointing out his stupid plot holes. Also way to plagiarizer the Poochie episode of the Simpsons you fucking hack

>or keep pointing out his stupid plot holes. Also way to plagiarizer the Poochie episode of the Simpsons you fucking hack

What

and those posts last for maybe 2-3 hours before being deleted to make room for new crap.
Its called story time because it practically is like reading a comic you borrowed from a friend and returning it before the end of the day.

because the only bases you would refund art is your opinion of it's value
and no one want's to trust the refund system on the buyer's opinion that's stupid

Because it's not a tool. It's not something that objectively works or doesn't work. Art is subjective. If you don't like it, it could be because the artist sucks or because you're a tasteless herb. You make a dishwasher to please customers, you make art to please yourself or the company who contracted you to start creating in the first place. Pleased fans is just a necessary evil if you want to live of art.

How much did you pay the person who taught you English? Because you assuredly deserve the refund you refuse to ask for.

People like you are the reason art class sucks, stop being a cunt.

sharing is bad

we shouldn't be allowed to listen to music right?

It's pretty much word-for-word a line from the episode, Bart says it to the comic book guy

It's reasonable to say that artist intent is important, but you don't owe an artist anything outside of the cost of entry for the work itself, to suggest otherwise is a huge overstatement to the importance of art. Art isn't the be all and end all of life, and artist is worth less to your existence than the person that tends to the crops you eat or the people that built your house, as soon as you forget this you've crossed into full pretentious art that only serves the minority of other would be artists.

More like you lend it to 50 people and give them access to a photocopier.
I get that you guys are defensive of your little storytimes, but they are objectively illegal.

I do all the time
after those weird storytimes I order books off amazon or go to my lcs

>implying anyone takes the time to download each individual page that way instead of just downloading it all thru torrent or a winrar link
Come on now. lets be honest about how pirating works. It does not work by people saving individual pages

It's like inviting a bunch of friends, or Sup Forumsmrades over to read a book
besides Batman, event books and meme material, most storytimes are only read by those dedicated to comics and many do buy comics after reading them

>me because it practically is like reading a comic you borrowed from a friend and returning it before the end of the day.

expect your friend can save it on his computer or idk just look at archives.

it's not the same user. It's better to compare it to uploading a film onto youtube so you can talk about it together with strangers. It's up a lot longer for everyone to see for free.


and before you say you can't upload movies to youtube

love actually youtube.com/watch?v=Njd7t7ZOrqk

I watched it together with my friends while we talked on skype

Maybe it is illegal. But it's a victimless crime. Those people would never buy the comics

>anyone takes the time to download each individual page
Different user, but right click, save as, Enter key. I don't know how much time you think it takes to hit three buttons.

>It's like inviting a bunch of friends, or Sup Forumsmrades over to read a book
I love this delusion Sup Forums has that Sup Forums is their little secret clubhouse and the users are their friends. This is a public website trafficked by hundreds of thousands of people.

well I pirated my english lessons

see if I payed for my stuff maybe you would understand what I had to say

And yet here I am still pirating

I doubt it, English lessons haven't fixed any birth defects to date.

I'm realizing in reading this thread not just how ridiculously entitled Sup Forums is, but how many of its users are using it as a surrogate for actually having friends.

Public libraries are a thing that exist for this exact reason.

bleedingcool.com/2016/06/29/contest-of-champions-and-hyperion-cancelled-by-marvel-comics/

apparently one of the best comics marvel had going was cancelled because of low reader's rate

19,148 people pirated in through one of the more popular comics reading sites.

>I cant take Sup Forums's bantz

But you're not my friend

>without criticism
I don't know what this person thinks criticism is, we do it to each other constantly.