>"Do I really look like a guy with a plan? You know what I am? I'm a dog chasing cars. I wouldn't know what to do with one if I caught it! You know...I just do things."
Considering he pulled off a number of very complex plans, this statement seems to be total bullshit. Do you think this is how Joker actually perceived himself, or is he lying in the moment to gain Harvey's trust?
little of column A...
He didn't gave an end goal, that's what he meabt. His "plans" were just for fun.
I don't know how he perceives himself, but considering the complexity of his plans, that statement is blatantly untrue.
Related note, I've heard people say that he jammed the trigger with his finger while the gun was pointed at his head there, but I don't think you can clearly see it. I'm wondering what the source for that theory was?
Define plan.
By his definition, he has short term plans on robbing a bank, assassinate people, and blow a bunch of people up. He has no long term plan after defeating Batman.
Now if you ask me, that's a crock of shit. Joker knows what he's doing and he's just playing up the anarchy part to fuck with Harvey's head
I can't stand it when writers and fans continue the mistaken belief that The Joker is insane.
HE IS NOT. THAT'S THE POINT.
The reason why The Joker is Batman's greatest enemy is because The Joker is using the EXACT SAME METHODS as Batman. He's pretending to be an insane criminal to mask the fact that he's a schemer and master strategist.
When Bruce Wayne first began, he failed miserably as an anonymous crimefighter because he was just a man fighting crime. The same skills, ... but the criminals were always confidant they could take him on: he was just another man. So he created the "Bat-man". Suddenly, criminals were scared of what he could do. Many in Gotham honestly believe Batman isn't HUMAN. Others believe that no matter what you do, Batman has a weapon/strategy to stop you. GODMODE VIA PREPTIME. That's how well Bruce Wayne has pulled off the "Batman" concept. Through theatrics and misdirection, Batman cannot truly be predicted.
The Joker does exactly the same. By *pretending* to be insane and commiting ridiculous acts at any random interval, The Joker is *disguising* the fact that he's just another clever criminal. Every step of his plan has been carefully planned through the ingenuity of a Chess Grand Master, but he covers it with seemingly insane moments of random madness. The clothes, the behaviour, the sheer unpredictability... "You cannot predict what The Joker will do". YES YOU CAN. That's why Batman always beats him.
This is why they are arch enemies. The Joker is aware of Batman's methods and works to outmanuever him. Batman also studies The Joker's actions and recognises which were feints and distractions, and which were clues to his REAL plan. A master strategist hero and master strategist villain, using the same methods of misdirection and theatricality to succeed.
...but no, people are all "Joker is Batman's opposite because he's truly insane, and a force of chaos lol".
No. Just... no.
I figured he was just bullshitting Harvey to get him too turn
Nolan joker was pretty keikaku-driven.
Even in your picture you can see he is holding the hammer of the pistol back so even if Harvey pulls the trigger, the gun won't fire.
Of course he didn't know two-face would have that MO or anything, but he didn't give a damn, he just wanted to give Harvey a really bad day, and prove to batman that the people on the boats would too.
In fact, he managed to fail to predict THAT outcome, but he still had a failsafe.
It's almost like he lies a lot and was saying whatever he needed to say to send Harvey over the edge
>autism
He had a shit ton of plans but his goal was chaos.
Of course he was lying.
I still to this day see people who didn't understand The Dark Knight. There are still people who didn't realize that the Joker gave the wrong addresses and some people who didn't realize he was lying about how he got his scars.
He's just all messed up, you know? All messed up.
he lies all the time, thanks to all the "scar" origin stories he tells we can be sure he's a liar and so its really difficult to tell when hes being genuine or not... i think he had "plans", more so than he leads characters to believe hes clearly doing stuff on purpose, but overall i think he was more just messing around for fun cause hes the joker.
> trusting what the Joker says
> ever
Wiring that entire hospital with explosives no one could find would have required even more extensive and careful planning than the bank robbery
It's a joke. Get it? It's a lie because he's the Joker. It's not supposed to make any sense. Ha ha.
That's a fan theory you're believing to be the absolute truth and then you get angry when people don't share that opinion. You being pissed is no one's fault but your own.
Can't read my can't read my no he can't read my
>filename
Not to mention all the police officers in a position to help him just happened to have family members in that hospital.
Why would he trust a man that called Rachel beautiful?
Which goes to prove he's shitting Dent to get him to snap
It's pasta. I've seen it posted multiple times.
>You can't trust everything a murdering psycho tells you.
>Batman: This city just showed you that it's full of people ready to believe in good.
>The Joker: Until their spirit breaks completely. Until they get a good look at the real Harvey Dent, and all the heroic things he's done. You didn't think I'd risk losing the battle for Gotham's soul in a fistfight with you? No. You need an ace in the hole. Mine's Harvey.
>Batman: What did you do?
>The Joker: I took Gotham's white knight and I brought him down to our level. It wasn't hard. You see, madness, as you know, is like gravity. All it takes is a little push!
that depends on how you define 'insane' (and the particular interpretation of the joker).
He isnt insane in that he doesnt know where he is, or that he is seeing things or isnt in control of his actions; but he is arguably insane in that he has no care for human life, He's sadistic and gleefully causes destruction, often just to see how much he can get away with. He might scheme, but his end goal isnt; get rich, fuck off to bahamas. Its always: fuck with people ( particularly batman) or doing things because he straight up thinks its funny. If he succesfully gained millions of dollars they would all be put back into causing as much suffering to people as he could buy for them, or just burning them if he thought it was funny.
Nah, he did had a goal and an idea of how to achieve it; the thing is that by anyone else's standards his goal seems insane or pointless, he's the only one who sees the "fun" in proving batman wrong, in other words he's the only one who gets the joke, he knows it and Harvey knows it too. This scene is basically him telling Harvey "look im just a nutcase, a symptom of a corrupt system, those other people are the real cause"
aaaaaaaand /thread
This is ether some pasta or your dumb as fuck.
What we are missing here is that Joker just wanted to mess shit up. He didn't had a goal, everyone he hired was fucked up psychos
he is just a "Troll" for lack of a better world. Everything he did was by pure luck, as he intended to be
Probably both.
There's never been a real DC Comic, cartoon, or movie that supports this edgelord take on the characters
How could you think the scars have a definite canon origin he literaly gives multiple explanations
Maybe one is true maybe none are we will never know thats how joker origins work
I can see people assuming he just meant he got the scars in multiple instances throughout life
>As a kid his father traumatized him, so as an adult he was fucked up enough to abuse himself
Not that guy and I don't agree with him on The Joker, but I'm pretty sure the Batman take is validated by Year One.
The Joker spends the whole of the Dark Knight planning circles around the good guys
I rather like your interpretation of the Joker. Certainly more-so than how any edgy teenager perceived it, but it does have one glaring problem... Even if it isn't a flaw, it's painfully obvious: The Riddler.
You're describing the Riddler, too.
That's sort of a problem that crops up a lot in Batman mythology, everyone is a fractured aspect of the psyche, like Batman! Everyone wants vengeance... Like Batman! Everyone is a master-planner, just like Batman.
I really like your take on it, though. I will likely absorb it into myself and make it my own.
He doesn't have an end goal
Of course he had a plan. The indication is shown by his constant changing stories of how he got his scars . Showing that he will say anything for effect
Fucked up enough to get damaged tattoed on his forehead?
He's obviously lying. Everything he did throughout the movie took extensive planning.
The movie has him tell different versions of his origin specifically to explicitly tell the audience THIS GUY LIES A LOT TO MANIPULATE PEOPLE. If you can't piece together that he is also lying here to manipulate Harvey, you are a fucking moron. Go watch Suicide Squad, HONKA HONKA Joker is more your speed.
Y'know I think some of it is "you gotham police are such fucktards I don't even HAVE to be a master planner"
It still takes some serious brain power to get a plan that scale into play, not to mention being one step ahead of Batman
I dig this a lot and I've never noticed before but I do wonder then if Joker wanted Batman to kill him in the end or could he have had another ace up his sleeve?
Actually, Riddler seems to be closer to being certifiably mentally ill. His idiosyncrasies, self-destructive nature, obsessions and ego shows more than the Joker.
Joker uses mental illness as an excuse to mask heavily planned theatrics.
Riddler uses heavily planned theatrics as an excuse to mask mental illness.
I can't stand it when writers and fans continue the mistaken belief that The Joker is insane.
HE IS NOT. THAT'S THE POINT.
The reason why The Joker is Batman's greatest enemy is because The Joker is using the EXACT SAME METHODS as Batman. He's pretending to be an insane criminal to mask the fact that he's a schemer and master strategist.
When Bruce Wayne first began, he failed miserably as an anonymous crimefighter because he was just a man fighting crime. The same skills, ... but the criminals were always confidant they could take him on: he was just another man. So he created the "Bat-man". Suddenly, criminals were scared of what he could do. Many in Gotham honestly believe Batman isn't HUMAN. Others believe that no matter what you do, Batman has a weapon/strategy to stop you. GODMODE VIA PREPTIME. That's how well Bruce Wayne has pulled off the "Batman" concept. Through theatrics and misdirection, Batman cannot truly be predicted.
The Joker does exactly the same. By *pretending* to be insane and commiting ridiculous acts at any random interval, The Joker is *disguising* the fact that he's just another clever criminal. Every step of his plan has been carefully planned through the ingenuity of a Chess Grand Master, but he covers it with seemingly insane moments of random madness. The clothes, the behaviour, the sheer unpredictability... "You cannot predict what The Joker will do". YES YOU CAN. That's why Batman always beats him.
This is why they are arch enemies. The Joker is aware of Batman's methods and works to outmanuever him. Batman also studies The Joker's actions and recognises which were feints and distractions, and which were clues to his REAL plan. A master strategist hero and master strategist villain, using the same methods of misdirection and theatricality to succeed.
...but no, people are all "Joker is Batman's opposite because he's truly insane, and a force of chaos lol".
No. Just... no..
So a fan of the theory presented in "Case Study" then?
...
His index finger is clearly holding the hammer down
I can't stand it when writers and fans continue the mistaken belief that Kiddo is insane.
HE IS NOT. THAT'S THE POINT.
The reason why Kiddo is the Navy Seal's greatest enemy is because Kiddo is using the EXACT SAME METHODS as the Navy Seal. He's pretending to be an insane shitposter to mask the fact that he's a schemer and master strategist.
When Sup Forums first began, he failed miserably as an anonymous poster because he was just a man fighting shit. The same skills, ... but the trolls were always confidant they could take him on: he was just another man. So he created the "Navy Seal". Suddenly, trolls were scared of what he could do. Many in Sup Forums honestly believe the Navy Seal isn't HUMAN. Others believe that no matter what you do, the Navy Seal has a weapon/strategy to stop you. GODMODE VIA PREPTIME. That's how well Sup Forums has pulled off the "the Navy Seal" concept. Through theatrics and misdirection, the Navy Seal cannot truly be predicted.
Kiddo does exactly the same. By *pretending* to be insane and commiting ridiculous acts at any random interval, Kiddo is *disguising* the fact that he's just another clever troll. Every step of his plan has been carefully planned through the ingenuity of a Chess Grand Master, but he covers it with seemingly insane moments of random madness. The posts, the behaviour, the sheer unpredictability... "You cannot predict what Kiddo will do". YES YOU CAN. That's why the Navy Seal always beats him.
This is why they are arch enemies. Kiddo is aware of the Navy Seal's methods and works to outmanuever him. the Navy Seal also studies Kiddo's actions and recognises which were feints and distractions, and which were clues to his REAL plan. A master strategist hero and master strategist villain, using the same methods of misdirection and theatricality to succeed.
...but no, people are all "kiddo is the Navy Seal's opposite because he's truly insane, and a force of chaos lol".
No. Just... no..
I haven't watched it in years but I seem to remember that he was playing everyone, everyone was underestimating him from the start and he just played along downplaying his plan and all
...
Joker said whatever was needed to be said to cause mass destruction.
He lied to Batman telling him Harvey was where Rachel was and Rachel was at where Harvey really was.
He then later said he didn't have anything to do with THE DEATH TRAP HE MADE.
...
>The same skills, ... but the trolls were always confidant they could take him on: he was just another man. So he created the "Navy Seal". Suddenly, trolls were scared of what he could do. Many in Sup Forums honestly believe the Navy Seal isn't HUMAN. Others believe that no matter what you do, the Navy Seal has a weapon/strategy to stop you
Goddamn magical
But he did have an end goal: Corrupting Dent.
the dcau
The Batman part is actually pretty accepted, not the weird prep-time diversion, but the rest is pretty batman. "Villains are a superstitious, cowardly lot" and such. Also this,
Batman villains are very similar, family member dies and/or they get something dumped on them and it turns them crazy. Also they tend to wear purple and green. Plus Batman villains are pretty standard for comics "I was hit with weird thing and now I'm crazy."
>Riddler, too.
>Too "Riddler"
You dont need a plan to orchestrate shit, you just need to observe and manipulate people and events.
Lying, he's just really charismatic