Most overpriced, overrated army in any tv show? Also, if you're going to raise child slaves to be soldiers why cut their balls off?
>supposed to be this godlike fighting force
>every scene they're in they getting fucking dumpstered
>armor looks retarded
>grey worm worst character in the series
>their armor is basically worthless
>no weapon diversity
>no archers to pin down the Lannister archers on the wall
>no cavalry
>no weapons to take on armored knights
Like what the fuck? I doubt they would even be that effective against cavalry since their spears are shorter one handed versions. That would work if they used teardrop shields (comes to a point in the bottom) where you can shove it into the ground as use it to brace/leverage yourself.
And what was Tyrion's plan exactly? Send 8,000 Unsullied on an amphibious assault against 10,000 Lannisters in a defensive position whom he admitted were better armed and armored.
>soldiers why cut their balls off?
This is an oxymoron. Eunuchs are not aggressive because they have no balls literally. Not good soldiers if not aggressive.
(fucking hollywood bullshit)
This is so fucking stupid.
You don't use light spearmen in leather bdsm gear to storm walls and carry out grueling siege work.
Unsullied are a purely defensive force meant repel sieges, not carry them out. The books even make it clear that the Unsullied only shine in defensive engagements where they can remain stationary and wait for the enemy to come to them (look up the Battle of Qohor). They're completely useless when out of formation.
And why the hell do you even need Unsullied to infiltrate the castle? A random sellsword could have done that work.
It's almost as if the writers are shit
Dany's entire time in Essos was basically The Sacking of Rome
She just sank an entire continent into the dark ages
Can't wait for her to come do it to Westeros too
B-but they will fight for Cally-C! they will carry the day!
Why even attack casterly rock? He knows the mines are dry and no longer have any gold. It's not situated anywhere of strategic importance. No important generals or figures were located there. He knew the assault would be high in casualtiesand that it was a huge risk to split their forces. Now their navy is gone, the unsullied are completely cut off in a worthless castle that has no food inside, and all for nothing. What an absolutely worthless engagement.
>impenetrable fortress/unbeatable army
>taken down by a few good men
>~3 times per season
how did D&D get this job when they are the biggest hacks on the planet?
Because a good chunk of the lannister army was supposed to be there.
Why bother assaulting them at all with unsullied? An attack with dragons could have destroyed them or a protracted siege could have immobilized them or even raids by Dothraki to destroyed their resources could have crippled them logistically. The show runners don't even think of reasons behind any characters actions. It's so surface level and shallow and pedantic it makes me sick.
>Why even attack casterly rock?
See, they actually explained why, but even their explanation makes no god damn sense.
Tyrion and Grey Worm went in thinking that Casterly Rock was holding the entire Lannister Army, so they wanted to take over the castle and wipe out the Lannister's army in one go.
But if the entire Lannister army was inside of the castle, then why even bother attempting a siege? A siege never goes in favor of the attackers when the besieged army completely outnumbers the besiegers. It becomes a battle of attrition at that point and the outnumbered attackers will eventually get whittled down to nothing. The only way to deal with a situation like that is to blockade the castle and just starve out the defenders until they surrender. No fighting or combat necessary at all.
The entire attack was so stupid and should never have happened. It would have been more interesting if Grey Worm just camped out and tried to stave them out, only to realize after a few days that the Lannister army isn't inside Casterly Rock at all, and then frantically heading south to assist the Tyrells or to shadow the Lannister army in the Reach.
Anything else would have been better than what we got onscreen.
>let's attack the more numerous and better supplied enemy that knows we're coming at the most well fortified position they control which happens to be a long distance from the much more important and actually decisive target
>I w-won Battle of Blackwater B-bay
thats even worse, they would have been wrecked without screenwriter handwaiving.
Read up on the Persian Immortals. A force with a pretty impressive reputation, but made up of soldiers that were essentially disposable. What made them scary was that as soon as people started dying, they would just replenish the ranks.
The Usullied are supposed to be the same thing. They're not scary because they're good fighters, they're scary because they've been brainwashed into doing anything. They're not scared to die, so they'll keep going without hesitation until they're killed, then they'll keep getting replaced. The Eunuch thing is a stupid dramatic flare, but it's supposed to help rid them of desire/fear. The lack of testosterone doesn't matter, though; again, they're not supposed to be great fighters, they're disposable.
If the entire army is in a strategically worthless but defensible position you're supposed to ignore them and for them out by going for the actually relevant targets
It also shows they have no idea how sieges work.
Many, many sieges throughout history hardly involve actual combat and wall-scaling like what the show presents.
If the besiegers don't have to worry about food or supply lines, then all they have to do is sit outside and wait for the defenders to starve to death. The two most famous sieges in history, Leningrad and Alesia, did not involve the besieging army attacking the city like a bunch of retards. Most of the time, they just sat outside and waited for the citizens and defenders to starve. What they really had to worry about was an attack from a relief army.
Stop using logic. It's ruining the show for us.
>It would have been more interesting if Grey Worm just camped out and tried to stave them out, only to realize after a few days that the Lannister army isn't inside Casterly Rock at all
This is literally exactly what I was thinking after the episode ended. Would've been funny as hell and shown that while Tyrion is more intelligent than Cersei or Jaime individually, together they can outsmart him.
>sewer combat
>cqb in tight spaces
>using spears
JUST
The show can't stop sucking Tyrion's dick though
Yeah it's pretty stupid.
>raise ultimate warriors
>cut their nuts off
Okay? What the fuck is the point of that, reduces their aggression and musculature like crazy. Might as well send women into battle.
Except imoortals were much better equiped.
>GoT military autism thread
Why was the Tyrell army so shit? Did the Tarly bannermen defect to the Lannisters? How gud is Randyll Tarly? How far is Casterly Rock from Highgarden? Why was the march of the Lannister army undetected?
Was the weakness of the Tyrell army made up on the spot? I read in the books that the Knights of the Reach were second to none.
It's a TV show that spends most of its budget on dragon CGI. The armor and weaponry have been getting steadily worse since the first season. They're probably supposed to have better gear.
Also, at least the unsullied don't' carry wicker shields.
>dat Sansa scene about armor
>none in Winterfell ever heard about doublets, but everyone using them since season 1
They were worse than Greek hoplites, but regardless you are talking about soldiers from classical antiquity not the middle medieval period. Immortals couldn't have touched a mid medieval army.
You people are ruining this shit for me.
The show hasn't been good in a while, but i still used to get some enjoyment out of it.
I noticed that too, it's like that in most shows.
I guess what they figure is that it's just not exciting watching a bunch of dudes sit around flinging rocks at the walls with catapults and waiting. Still silly, attacking a fully fortified position from the get-go without even attempting to knock down the walls or starve them out. Complete waste of men.
>don't produce testosterone
>are strong soldiers
wtf were they thinking
>Persian Immortals.
Were they just cannon fodder and disposable?
ancient-origins.net
>As they traveled, they were accompanied by carriages carrying their women and servants, as well as food and supplies. Being a part of this unit was very exclusive. Men had to apply to be a part of it, and being chosen was a great honor.
>How gud is Randyll Tarly?
Literally Reach millitary leader.
>Why was the march of the Lannister army undetected?
Because Olena is an old whore, not a strateg and with Tarly support shitton of lesser lords betrayed her or stay neutral
>It's a TV show that spends most of its budget on dragon CGI
Then why the fuck they look worse than vidya dragons?
That scene was stupid as fuck. Plate armor would usually be covered with paint or cloth (not leather), but it was because of temperature and corrosion control. It didn't have anything to do with keeping people warm, like Sansa was implying. There's no reason to cover plate armor with leather, except for the budget to cheap out and act like cheap leather is plate armor.
You forget they're fighting for their FREEEEEDOM
most the northerners have been wearing coats of plates so not sure why they were making plate cuirasses, especially since in siege warfare your torso is irrelevant since it's hidden behind battlements.
>they're fighting for their FREEEEEDOM
>Danny demands total obidience from anyone
Was it bolshevik reference?
>What made them scary was that as soon as people started dying, they would just replenish the ranks
Is this supposed to make the slightest bit of sense?
>medieval army
>uniforms
I will never get over this shit
At least it's a fantasy setting.
Blame GRRM. And from the show at least, it seems like most of the people in Essos don't practice warfare the way the Westerosi do, so they might be more effective.
And again, it's kind of a moot point. The unsullied aren't supposed to be great fighters, they're disposable drones. The point isn't to outfight people (that's what better mercenary companies are for), it's to throw a bunch of soldiers at a force to overwhelm them.
user thinks they raise immortals from the dead.
They were scary because they are trained from age 5 to fight, and the immortal army maintains a sizable number of these well trained individuals.
It's just an elite unit essentially, not a scary zombie force.
It's an army you can't beat.
If they were meant to be disposable why spend so much time and money training and conditioning children to function as a single fighting force? Just admit the writers are shit and the viewers retarded.
>don't produce testosterone
It's actually mentioned in the books. They're not as strong other soldiers because of it, but they make up for it w/ extreme discipline and a special wine they drink to numb pain.
>What is it, twelve thousand infantrymen the Tyrell family has supplied? Eighteen hundred mounted lances. Two thousand in support. Provisions, so this city might survive the winter. A millions bushels of wheat. Half a million bushels each of barley, oats, and rye. Twenty thousand head of cattle. Fifty thousand sheep. You don't have to lecture me about wartime expenses, I'm quite familiar with them.
>It was never our forte
The point is to make it feel like they are endless and break the enemy resolve.
Then... why cut them off in the first place...
true, but 8000 isn't many and they'd die in droves unsupported. They have no range or siege capability, no cavalry and terrible armaments.
both "sieges" were incredibly retarded ive written paragraphs about it yesterday
the writing is just so fucking terrible at this point i should stop wasting my energy
literally nothing special about their training or tactics (that we know)
they wore slightly nicer clothes than other Persian spearmen
they were called "immortals" because the 10,000 man corps was always kept at full strength, creative individuals later invented fantasies surrounding this cool name.
Just an ordinary fighting unit.
So in other words, if they just left their nuts alone they would be even better.
Does it say what the purpose of cutting them off is?
Short spears like theirs work fine though.
Because the slavemasters of Astapor don't want soldiers with dicks looking cool in front of their harem
>>medieval army
>>uniforms
Problems?
Fantasy writers aren't tacticians or historians, they read basic shit about real life for inspiration and exaggerate it. It's how fantasy works. Of course you can destroy pretty much everything in a fantasy world by applying too much logic to it.
Stops them from forming relationships with women, I believe.
thats the point theyre supposed to be citywatch/bodyguards bred for discipline obedience and loyalty. Dabid & dabid nailed it again.
I can buy that the Lannister army is mostly in uniforms. Remember the line Tyrion said: "Tywin built the army."
Are you implying these are uniforms?
Don't look like it.
Either way
>fin du XVe siecle
Not middle ages.
>disposable drones
>spend shit tons of money training and conditioning soldiers from childhood
>training an army of a few thousand takes years
>trained to function as one cohesive unit
>prized and feared throughout Essos
How would they replenish themselves if some slaver lord bought 2000 and then took them off to conquer some shit hole? Stop talking shit.
no the point is making them eunuchs changes their nature, a teenage boy would resist their indoctrination but a eunuch lacks the desires & rebelliousness etc of a normal man
What should have happened if I was writing:
>Grey Worm lays siege to Casterly Rock
>sits outside waiting for Lannister army to sally out or surrender
>no one takes the bait
>Grey Worm suspects something fishy is going on
>sends lone Unsullied soldier to infiltrate Casterly Rock and figure out wtf is happening
>after gaining intel, Grey Worm realizes Lannister army isn't inside Casterly Rock
>*dramatic music plays*
>Grey Worm deliberates with his officers and comes to conclusion that Lannister army is headed to Highgarden, Dany's only real Westerosi ally aside from Dorne
>Grey Worm quickly gathers up Unsullied and heads south to track down the Lannister army
days later
>Lannister army arrives outside Highgarden
>Olenna Tyrell looking worried
>Jaime begins construction of siege towers and trebuchets
>As Jaime lays plan for the siege, messenger bursts through his tent
>Jaime asks wtf is happening
>messenger tells him that Grey Worm and his Unsullied are about 5 days away from reaching Highgarden
>*dramatic music plays*
>Jaime debates with Bronn and Randyll Tarly whether he should stay or retreat
>Bronn tells him to retreat, Tarly tells him to stay and fight
>Jaime decides to stay and fight
>with Tarly's help, Jaime frantically digs trenches and builds two sets of watch towers and wooden palisades around Highgarden, one set facing inward towards Highgarden and the other facing outward to face the Unsullied
>in a twist of irony, Lannister army is now being besieged by approaching Unsullied while having to besiege Highgarden at the same time
>As Olenna watches this, she realizes that Unsullied are coming to the rescue
>Olenna prepares her men to sally out and attack the Lannisters at the same as the Unsullied arrive
>Jaime writes letter to Cersei, telling her that he may not come back to King's Landing alive
>cliffhanger ending
>next episode to have epic battle where Jaime's army fights both the Unsullied and Tyrell troops at the same time
It's always good to outnumber the enemy, no matter what kind of troops you have. Having large numbers isn't a quality intrinsic to any particular type of soldier, it's entirely dependent on the situation. It would make sense to say that they are cheap and cost-effective, if that was indeed the case.
>defending George "Taxman" Martin when it comes to realistic writing
>XV
>Not middle ages.
Burger please.
Also, uniform isn't a problem if you have money and brain
They are designed to be sold to the rich city states in essos who mainly have to rely on sellswords vs dothraki. Thats why they can charge so much & they arent "disposable".
They could claim their scrotes as a tax deduction dummy
Why spend so much money and time arming them and conditioning them to be a perfect fighting force when they could just hire any company of sellswords? They're supposed to be the best of the best of what Essos has to offer.
because they sell them to rich people and make bank?
your criticism was shit and you are retarded
how did this lanky fuck become the head of the unsullied again?
I thought tyrion wanted to take casterly rock because it's his and cersei's home? Kind of like a psychological play against cersei
Isn't this what we are supposed to assume?
He is Essosi-african.
1453 is commonly considered the end of the middle ages.
The image says it's the end of the XVth.
Choke on my burger, i'm not american tho
No they aren't supposed to be the best. see Sellswords are notoriously unreliable for obvious reasons. The idea is the unsullied form a core city watch or bodyguard group for the rich which help prevent the sellswords from routing/abandoning.
They're all eunuchs, they shouldn't be jacked. I dunno what was up with that guy who murdered by Harpies though.
You're wrong though, read the books.
Are you pretending to be dumb? Look at dogs or cattle. What happens you neuter them? they become docile. Same thing with men.
The real question we should all be asking is how come there are no scouts or spies tracking the Lannister/Greyjoy movements? What happened to the Varys' little spiders? How does Euron appear behind the Unsullied fleets in broad daylight with perfect visibility?
And what about the Tyrells? They were in open rebellion against the crown and the Lannisters somehow marched thousands of men to their doorstep. None of that shit makes any sense. It would have been impossible to sneak that many men to their doorstep.
ok. that would totally screw over the producers who dont have a director with experience with battle scenes schedules to direct episode four. plus a ton of other shit i dont want to write an essay about.
research more
That gay little speech went against all Tyrions beliefs. It was fucking retarded beyond words
Also, no it's not just a matter of money.
Medieval armies didn't have uniforms, either you were a trained knight or squire and used your own equipment, or you were a levied peasant and wore whatever you had on you when your lord rounded you up.
>trained to be generic city guards
>defeat 50,000 strong Khalasar with 3000 men
Pay for themselves don't they.
>“In Yunkai and Meereen, eunuchs are often made by removing a boy’s testicles, but leaving the penis. Such a creature is infertile, yet often still capable of erection. Only trouble can come of this. We remove the penis as well, leaving nothing. The Unsullied are the purest creatures on the earth.” He gave Dany and Arstan another of his broad white smiles. “I have heard that in the Sunset Kingdoms men take solemn vows to keep chaste and father no children, but live only for their duty. Is it not so?”
>“It is,” Arstan said, when the question was put. “There are many such orders. The maesters of the Citadel, the septons and septas who serve the Seven, the silent sisters of the dead, the Kingsguard and the Night’s Watch . . .”
>“Poor things,” growled the slaver, after the translation. “Men were not made to live thus. Their days are a torment of temptation, any fool must see, and no doubt most succumb to their baser selves. Not so our Unsullied. They are wed to their swords in a way that your Sworn Brothers cannot hope to match. No woman can ever tempt them, nor any man.”
>His girl conveyed the essence of his speech, more politely. “There are other ways to tempt men, besides the flesh,” Arstan Whitebeard objected, when she was done.
>“Men, yes, but not Unsullied. Plunder interests them no more than rape. They own nothing but their weapons. We do not even permit them names.”
I didn't say generic and it's specifically stated that the dothraki are chink tier autists who refused to flank them.
No one really cares about the Tyrells though
How was I defending him? I basically said he writes a lot of stupid shit that falls apart when you think about it. It's fantasy, that's how the genre works. If you don't understand that, stick to historical documentaries.
They're sold as prized household guards not city guards. They're GRRM version of Spartans.
awoiaf.westeros.org
He was the smallest one, so he became the bravest and toughest to compensate. They explain it two or three times.
>why cut their balls off?
it would be too opressing for the female audience
>nor any man.”
You can still have your prostate stimulated. GURM didn't think outside the box on this one
>How does Euron appear behind the Unsullied fleets in broad daylight with perfect visibility?
Because only capable saiolors on Danny's sides were Greyjoys and the just transports, unlike Iron fleet, not to mention Euron ver fammiliar with the location and knew how to prepare the ambush.
Most likely thhey waited while all soldiers disembark and start siege so Euron can attack when ships will be most vulnerable
yet he shits on one of the most important authors of the 20th century because his work doesn't have any mention of tax rates. yeah keep defending that fat fuck
Yean because none never raised professional army in Europe durring medieval.
Alright gotta say this is a great question. Caloreesi not burning down King's Landing makes sense, though I think if she had them just fly around within eyesight that'd be terrifying to any opposing army, but for Casterly Rock there was zero reason to not glass that place. Especially since the plan was to waste Unsullied in a frontal assault to make it look like they had no other ways of attacking. So she wasted an entire piece of her army to take back a worthless castle instead of sending 2 dragons there, and the magic ballistas likely aren't there either so it would have been a slaughterhouse.
But you're right, the showrunners don't care, I don't see why we should either. Like why didn't anyone even suggest it?
And where does it say they're household guards? Do you think you buy 3000 household guards? They're comparable to spartans except in that they are both trained from a young age.
>They're comparable to spartans
Nope
Be reasonable. GRRM is a huge Tolkien admirer and has said so many times.
Professional armies also didn't wear uniforms.
not comparable*
They're not specifically trained to be guards, that's just what many are bought for and how Dany first sees them;
>“The slaves in the spiked bronze hats?” Dany had seen Unsullied guards in the Free Cities, posted at the gates of magisters, archons, and dynasts. “Why should I want Unsullied? They don’t even ride horses, and most of them are fat.”
>“The Unsullied you may have seen in Pentos and Myr were household guards. That’s soft service, and eunuchs tend to plumpness in any case. Food is the only vice allowed them. To judge all Unsullied by a few old household slaves is like judging all squires by Arstan Whitebeard, Your Grace. Do you know the tale of the Three Thousand of Qohor?”
you would think that cutting off all testosterone production would result in pretty mediocre "men" but its fantasy m8, just roll with it
What a bullshit excuse. Retarded as fuck. Like it's out of a comic book