Stalingrad

What went wrong ?

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Winter, he should of pushed into Moscow, Stalingrad is said to be where the war was lost.

>Tsaritsyn: What went wrong?

Answer: Communism

FTFY

Japanese entering into the west pacific, freeing up Siberian armies to be re positioned along the east front and defend the gateway to the caucus

Too few men. Shouldn't have diverted men to capture grozny before stalingrad was secured. Also, Romanians and hungarians were garbage.

The Axis hadn't enough reserves to attack Ukraine and Moscow in 1942. The Soviets would have defended Moscow the same way they defended Stalingrad.

>putting Romanians and Hungarians next to each other
>allying Romanians and Hungarians in the first place
>allying fucking Italy

Moscow is 10x the size of stalingrad. And unlike stalingrad was heavily defended and fortified.

It's unlikely Moscow would have been a success either. Even in a best case scenario the Wehrmacht would have arrived at the gates of Moscow right as the winter was setting in.

The honest answer is that the Germans greatly underestimated the fighting capabilities of the USSR. Not saying they were wrong to, given the information available at the time, but that's what happened.

They planned for a short war. They did not have the supply capabilities to keep the very stretched front lines at operational effectiveness for long.

+ the Russians destroyed their already shit infrastructure as they retreated, making logistics even more of a nightmare.

>not giving Romanians their promised AT weapons
Tfw Germans screwed the gyppo

What is it like to live in an Africa-tier European country? What is life like in Moldova? Can you afford bread?

So not well? The Germans had Stalingrad, they just lost the ability to supply it.

Remember, the Russians were the ones besieging Stalingrad.

read this

Wermacht logisticians just before Barbarossa started said to Hitler they will experience first serous problems 700-900 km deep into the Soviet territory and that it will only get worse from there on.

They simply didn't had enough of trucks and horses to ship everything in time to their troops in the frontline. You often had to make a choice between ammunition and winter clothes.

Stalin was to rad

> What went wrong
Allowing a spastic in Berlin to micromanage something he didn't understand. The whole campaing was successful because it depended on local, competent commanders making decisions in situ and surprise. When Hitler started to interfere, it all went to shit fast. Also, the Russians wised up and adapted to the German tactics - leading to the the annihilation of Germs at Stalingrad.

consider this

german scientists achieved the chemical synthesis of testosterone in 1935.

what would have happened if the germany army doubled its size by conscripting women and giving them steroids? could they have won with twice as many "men" in their ranks?

>the Russians were the ones besieging Stalingrad.
Not during the first part of the battle. It was a defensive battle for the soviets before operation Uranus. And they defended the town pretty well given the circumstances.

the logistic problem was even worse because Soviet union had smaller width track than Germany. Germans had to either rebuild every single piece of track or construct endless amount of new trains and carriages. They expected to have enought trains by merely capturing them, but that wasnt even close

What didn't go wrong?

Is this some kind of a fetish?

And winter , syberian winters are just cold ... and ground freezes , making it so that it's hard to deploy and maintain and supply your forces.

You lose to atrition

They all have the numbers superiority , most wars were won by through more manpower againts the enemy. Doesn't matter if you have 10k troops well prepared and with good weapons , 100k will eventually win.

History repeats it self
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_invasion_of_Russia

This would work if women were just idling at home during WW2.

They were performing essential work like munitions and weapons production.

The initial attack should have focused more on taking the Ukraine. The Germans should have refrained from chimping out with their death squads and persecution of the Ukrainians and they would have happily joined the nazis in slapping the shit out of stalin. They should have ignored cities like stalingrad and secured the Caucasian oil fields for their own supply.

The other thing they should have done was cut the soviets off in the north. Cut all port access off and then you could take the center of the country at your leisure.

But Hitler had to be retarded and go for Moscow which was only really symbolically important. Not strategic

The problem was never manpower, but logistics. In fact, I think that's probably how most wars were lost.

It would be expensive and go against their morals
instead, they should've been more friendly to occupying territories and not waste about 1 million troops policing countries like Poland and shit

Hitler should have waited for Russia to attack Poland first then come to Poland's rescue taking back his demanded territory

Hell he should have offered to build a maginot line for Poland's Eastern and build autobans all over Poland in exchange for Danzig or something

It was not very grateful of him to attack Europe's shield from Mongols and Islamist of a millennia.

They couldn't secure the Caucasian oil fields without neutralizing the Soviet forces in Stalingrad, otherwise they could have been isolated

Italy

For USA and UK yes, but not for the Germans. The Nazi party line of "kinder, kirche, kuche" (children, church, kitchen ) was prevailing until 1944 that they have to stay home and be homemakers.

It wasn't until Albert Speer became minister of armaments that he brought them to the factories, introduced 3rd shift etc...Germans became properly efficient in industrial production for the war effort far too late. They were outproduced by the Allies from day 1.

Should have teched up to atomic weaponry before starting shit. C'mon hitler, you could have turtled a little longer.

Of couse I can't. I hunt rats with bow for food.

?

I'm pretty sure you have that backwards. The German General staff wanted to seize Moscow as a decisive statement.

Hitler was the one who pushed for the south.

Two fronts, a war of attrition being fought while taking bombing attacks from both the british and americans.

Poland was chimping out on ethnic Germans in Danzig. They were not innocent.

The Germans fucked up in their initial assault of the city though

thats actually pretty shit idea. Similar thing happened in WW1 when at the start of the war, Germs and Austria-hungary conduscted near total mobilization. The problem was there was nobody left to work in factories and at fields. Central powers lacked guns equipment, planes...just everything. At the end of the war, average german soldier weighted 5kilogram less than a french one.
The problem wasnt about number. Germans in WW2 mobilized way about average numbers anyway. Average mobilization of was like 10% of total population, brits got to around 15%. German mobilized over 21% of their population, but that was only possible because they used lot of slave labor for jobs that suppported military industry. Throwing more men or women wouldnt solve anything. If anything, producing testosterone would take too much resources.
What germany was lacking was industry and infrastructure.
Even though german industry was very strong, they generally focused on overly precised gimmicks and sacrificed speed of production. They may have had best tanks or airplanes, but Brits produced manifold more shittier planes and Soviets manifold more shittier tanks

And if you speak stalingrad speficically, german army was smashed only after Stalin sent siberian reserves (around million men) there. He did this after his spy in japan, Dr. Sorge, managed to find out that japs wont attack in siberia

youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_1840327623&feature=iv&src_vid=ft-dYaZKxwU&v=A_3R-Rkn_98

Good vid about this subject.

> Morals
Kek.

crazy leader believing in magic

...

Soviets tanks were of shittier quality, but arguably superior design. Germans didn't really into sloped armor very well.

Ran out of steam. Stalingrad was a battle fought at the end of an operation involving millions of men advancing over a thousand miles into hostile territory. The fact that the Germans even reached Stalingrad was a hell of an achievement. In the end they didn't have the resources or the manpower to achieve their ambitious goals.

well yes, but the point is that soviets focused on numbers for the sake of quality. germans didnt and were overran

Shouldn't have even gone there. If they stayed on course for Moscow they would have taken it, lynched Stalin.

saved

im pretty sure germans invented sloped armor

they went instead for more crew room so they could operate better and longer

Invading Russia for oil then North Africa instead of the other way round. AKA Hitler was an ideot

If they weren't able to take Stalingrad, I don't think they would have been able to take Moscow

>pic related
she is dating a chilean spic

They did take Stalingrad. The siege of Stalingrad was the Russians trying to take it back, which only succeeded after the Germans effectively ran out of supplies.

Winter happened, supply lines were cut and Hitler didn't allow his troops to make a tactical retreat and regroup.

It's not the first time a war has been lost thanks to such decisions.

The decision to invade Russia was not as stupid as it seems in hindsight.

youtube.com/watch?v=ft-dYaZKxwU

Here's a good vid that explains why the Germans thought Russia would be an ez gg.

>They did take Stalingrad.
They never were able to take completely the West part of the city, let alone the East part.

HERE WE GO BOIS
HERE WE GO AGAIN
LE EPIC ETHNIC GERMANS WERE PERSEUTED MAY-MAY

Dumb Nazis didn't learn the lesson from other countries and fucked with the wrong bear.

Diverting 4. Pz.Armee to south, where it wasn't needed at all, while the city was basically empty of defenders.

Dragons apparently

Sorry, I forgot that p*land dindu nuffin

proofs
inb4 bromberg massacre

>ww1
>germans force russia release poland (and other minor nations like finland)
>versailles treaty
>poland steals german land
???
care to explain this betrayal

It was unnecesary to take the city.

The flanks were guarded by romanians without anti tank weapons.

Hitler was inflexible in defence, he should have broken out. apart from stalingrad, the planet offensives failed at heavy cost, if he had extracted the hardened veterans of stalingrad he could have used those troops to stop bagration.

the need to keep pushing into russia past all reasonable defensive positions was because hitler didn't have a strategic bomber. though that was probablyu out of reach once the attack on russia began, hitler shold have had forsight that in the vast distances of russia you need a long range bomber. At the least he could have re-purposed his naval bombers for a medium bomber role.

he didn't use women enough for labour, so didn't have the production abilities to stop soviet armored thrusts, even without enough fuel for more tanks and planes, he could have made enough anti tank weapons for his romanian allies to blunt the offensive.

he should have used gas, total war is total war.

he should have crossed the volga using his remaining paratroopers to make bridgeheads if he was going to take stalingrad.

again there was no need to take stalingrad, he could have held the russians and taken/held the caucasus to give him enough fuel to maneuver. The current russian doctrine is correct, if you cant take the city by surprise or off he march then it should be surrounded and ignored.

should have conscripted millions of french soldiers and made the finns ignore leningrad and push toward archangel and murmansk.

he should have merely held in the north, advances toward leningrad wasted men that could have been using their superior mobility in the steppes. blue , and in fact barbarossa should have been a thrust to the caspian and a sickle cut up to novgorod.

Face it son Your government fucked up worse than anyone. You should have given up Danzig for land in the east but you chimped out to hold on to land that's always been German, instead of retaking long lost Polish land in the east, and lost millions of people and spent the next half century as a slave state.

>russia releases finland
>when they want to take some of their lands back fins chimp out
???
care to explain this betrayal

>"""""their land"""""

so you have no proofs
>land that's always been German
>Greater Poland, where first polish capital is
I don't know if you are trolling or not

>Winter
>The Battle of Stalingrad (23 August 1942 – 2 February 1943
You are idiot.

>But Hitler had to be retarded and go for Moscow which was only really symbolically important. Not strategic

Not sure how accurate this is, but in Oliver Stone's recent series on the history of the US he takes a detour to masturbate over the logistical operation of their retreat from the nazis and he portrays it as a literal act of God, whereby the entire soviet industrial base was essentially picked up and moved four or five times over the course of 12+ month period. Every gear, every worker, every stitch of every factory's fixture, save what they destroyed in their retreat.

By his presentation it was impossible to strike a strategic target because Stalin forcibly relocated the manufacturing base of the country for the hundreds of miles it took them to reach a stalemate.

hahahahahaha poles were minority in danzig and yet they murdered and tortured poor dindus germans

Russia owns us completely, we are Russians in denial

Führerdirective 45.

>"""""""german land""""""

>November, December, January, February
>Not winter

???????

Oliver Stone's Untold history of America was complete trash user.

Puny "arians" turned out to be too warm-blooded and weak for our winter. Why would they even wanted our land if they were unfit to live here?

>Too few men
Fill up a meat.

The Soviet war machine was only possible because of Stalin's willingness to let all his people starve.

>"Yeah, we totally could conquer slavland right before the winter settles in!"
>"Nah, it won't be a clusterfuck of logisticks."

Hitler's unwitty ill strategy in my opinion, I still really like Hitler though, but he really had his blunders.

youtube.com/watch?v=PGICo37112Q

>"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""recovered""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" territories

Yeah everything in it that I was informed about was low-info retardation, but I don't know much about the german invasion of Russia so I just wanted to throw out the specific point he made about the inability of the german army to nail down the soviet war machine.

I assume its 80% embellishment and dramatic license, but he does address the question directly.

if hungarians and romanians were garbage then what about american troops which took one year to get through to germany fighting aganist kids and cripples with barely any tanks and 0 air support

>Russia releases
But that's wrong.
Finland declared independence after the Tzar had lost his de jure legitimacy over Finnish territory(by breaking the Solemn Assurance of the Sovereign) and had also lost de facto control of Finnish territory(Civil war).
Russial lost all claim on Finnish territory, there was no "taking back"

>They should have ignored cities like stalingrad and secured the Caucasian oil fields for their own supply.

That was the entire point of the campaign. Stalingrad was at first meant to be a diversionary action while the main push was into the caucuses.

Once Stalingrad fell the Germans had to rapidly retreat out because the caucuses would have been cut off.

Yeah that's what struck me about the picture he painted, obviously in glowing pinko tones that glazed over that fact.

If the representation were even somewhat like the reality the entire thing seems like one of the most inhuman acts of war in history. Like a mongolian invasion in reverse.

Not enough bullets

>fighting aganist kids and cripples
>barely any tanks
>0 air support
all this is wrong.

>Yes danzig wasn't a German city founded by Germans hundreds of years ago and wasn't 95 percent German in 1939.

I don't have to prove established facts that no one doubts.

Again the Polish people suffered more than almost anyone in WW2 due to the astounding incompetence of their own leadership.

Arians?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arianism
youtube.com/watch?v=YgAZt65tjHo

>splitting already weak army in 2 to capture 500 km square of land fighting against troops who will not give up and will do everything they can to fuck you up

you see boy, it's the same with Poland, we took our land back, there was no backstabbing
and don't tell me about "germany releasing Poland, they wanted to have a puppet state which would get annexed sooner or later

Neat. Thanks for the insight.

This is my favorite show on Hitler's lack of mlitary prowess:

youtu.be/dueGnewPbFQ

He had a brilliant team but thought as a corporal he could make better decisions. While WW2 was a horrible waste by any measure, it really showed that humans cannot handle autocracy, and need democracy and a requirement to see leaders as fallible and replaceable.

most of armies and supplies were sent to eastern front mongol

>fighting capabilities of the USSR
They were shit fighters, the Kill to death ratio will attest to that. The Soviets simply shoveled massive amounts of men and material into the German meatgrinder until the meatgrinder broke.

That's what they did. Half of the German army was roided women.

By 1945 over 40% of German land forces fought against the West, and most of the Luftwaffe fought against the west for the whole war.

Gdansk wasn't founded by germans and it was majority german thanks to teutons massacring polish population
but well I guess it's too hard to read wiki
> It is generally thought that Mieszko I of Poland erected a stronghold on the site in the 980s, thereby connecting the Polish state ruled by the Piast dynasty with the trade routes of the Baltic Sea

Leningrad would have been a better target do to its ports and connection with Finland.

Axis armies have lost urban combat and this allowed to encircle them.

Also communists that made purges in army before war stepped down and allowed generals to lead the war.

>They did not have the supply capabilities to keep the very stretched front lines at operational effectiveness for long
No, that problems were in the Red Army too. Wermacht was able to quikly move their forces lengthwise line of a front.